So it begins (on Oahu) (Read 4778 times)

changemyoil66

So it begins (on Oahu)
« on: September 29, 2022, 11:52:25 AM »
https://www.honolulu.gov/cms-csd-menu/site-csd-sitearticles/1564-site-csd-news-2022-cat/48872-09-29-22-mayor-blangiardi-announces-steps-to-keep-residents-safe-as-new-concealed-carry-regulations-will-soon-go-into-effect.html?fbclid=IwAR38Qjq2WMxGmWNlKMMqj-IVvHnVP3caSlHfkx5vI4xTFVioTX-6XTgElO0

Property owner must consent to being armed.  Which means the tenant cannot give the approval. And you must now announce you're armed.  They are quick to state that a guns welcome sign is not needed.

Sounds like this would also apply to the parking lot. Which means you gotta talk to the owner from the sidewalk and cannot park your car yet.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2022, 01:01:45 PM »
According to the Bruen decision, courts and lawmakers are not allowed to use a "balancing" approach between a Constitutional right and the government's interests in furthering public safety.  Basically, your right to feel safe stops where my right to carry starts.

The test, according to SCOTUS, is (1) text -- does the conduct fall within the purview of the Second Amendment based on the language of the amendment?, and (2) is there a historical tradition where such restrictions were common (traditional)?  The years 1791 & 1868 are when you must look for historical analogous laws, such as banning carry in parks, at public events or recreation centers.  20th Century laws are not "historical" for this purpose.

So, our mayor making prohibiting carry in parks is absolutely unconstitutional and conflicts with the Bruen decision.

That's what a judge in Virginia just ruled.  So  ..... yeah.




The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2022, 01:09:14 PM »
According to the Bruen decision, courts and lawmakers are not allowed to use a "balancing" approach between a Constitutional right and the government's interests in furthering public safety.  Basically, your right to feel safe stops where my right to carry starts.

The test, according to SCOTUS, is (1) text -- does the conduct fall within the purview of the Second Amendment based on the language of the amendment?, and (2) is there a historical tradition where such restrictions were common (traditional)?  The years 1791 & 1868 are when you must look for historical analogous laws, such as banning carry in parks, at public events or recreation centers.  20th Century laws are not "historical" for this purpose.

So, our mayor making prohibiting carry in parks is absolutely unconstitutional and conflicts with the Bruen decision.

That's what a judge in Virginia just ruled.  So  ..... yeah.




Everyone here knows this.  But the law makers don't care.  "F/U, sue us" is the mentality.  Then  like Zipps said, how many years will it take until ruling.  Which means unless an injunction is granted, the law/ordinance is allowed.

ren

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2022, 01:15:28 PM »
all these sensitive places that are listed are where criminal shootings have taken place. Laws didnt work to begin with so why prohibit LAW ABIDING citizens from defending themselves.
Deeds Not Words

hvybarrels

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2022, 01:21:19 PM »
Just wait until after the election when Biden stops tapping the strategic petroleum reserve and gas prices go to ten bucks a gallon

911 is about to become a busy signal
I’m becoming clinically undepressed and thinking about beginning it all.

changemyoil66

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2022, 01:49:39 PM »
all these sensitive places that are listed are where criminal shootings have taken place. Laws didnt work to begin with so why prohibit LAW ABIDING citizens from defending themselves.

All these anti's remind me of someone.  They think they can make up the definition of what a sensitive place is, thus making it true.

drck1000

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2022, 02:47:28 PM »
All these anti's remind me of someone.  They think they can make up the definition of what a sensitive place is, thus making it true.
They think they can define what is a sensitive, safe, etc space.  It is until someone who doesn't follow the rules makes it otherwise. . .

Bury your head in the sand all you want. . . decide what your reality is. . . because momma said you're special. . .  ::)

hvybarrels

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2022, 08:23:10 PM »
Just remember

Anyone who wants to carry a gun is a selfish and terrible person

Time for a freedom suppository

https://www.civilbeat.org/2022/09/honolulu-mayor-wants-guns-banned-from-many-public-areas/
I’m becoming clinically undepressed and thinking about beginning it all.

eyeeatingfish

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2022, 08:33:57 PM »
What happens when it is section 8? That would be a government program going along with a landlord who might say no guns which would mean 2nd amendment rights being denied by a government tied entity.

changemyoil66

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2022, 08:54:20 PM »

nickelzismoney

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2022, 10:54:38 PM »
Welp, time to get the ol 2A lawsuit suit on
“No matter how much it hurts, how dark it gets, or how hard you fall… you are never out of the fight.” - Marcus Luttrel

"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything." - Albert Einstein

Flapp_Jackson

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2022, 11:24:16 PM »
What happens when it is section 8? That would be a government program going along with a landlord who might say no guns which would mean 2nd amendment rights being denied by a government tied entity.

"Government-tied entity?"  You got a reference for the definition of that?

Now, if the government owns and operates the property, that's a totally different issue.

Federal court overturns gun bans in Public Housing
Quote
A federal District Court judge recently ruled that banning the lawful possession
of firearms by Public Housing residents is unconstitutional.

In a case brought against the East St. Louis Housing Authority (ESLHA), a Public
Housing resident claimed that ESLHA’s restriction against tenants having firearms
in their units violated her Second Amendment rights. The case was brought by the
Second Amendment Foundation and the Illinois State Rifle Association on behalf
of the resident.
https://affordablehousingonline.com/blog/federal-court-overturns-gun-bans-public-housing/
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

robtmc

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2022, 07:22:29 AM »
Y'all just knew they would throw as many obstacles out there as they could come up with.

Maybe 10 years from now it will have all filtered through the courts.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2022, 07:58:12 AM by robtmc »

Rocky

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2022, 07:41:20 AM »
Just wait until after the election when Biden stops tapping the strategic petroleum reserve and gas prices go to ten bucks a gallon
911 is about to become a busy signal

 :wave:
« Last Edit: November 23, 2022, 01:59:13 PM by Rocky »
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

changemyoil66

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2022, 09:09:24 AM »
Interesting the Big Island counsel member who submitted the ordinance said he did so at request of retiring Hawaii PD chief.  But he even thinks this is over reaching.

So at what point would the counsel tell the police no?

hvybarrels

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2022, 09:58:27 AM »
1911 is about to become a busy signal
FIFY
 :wave:

I’m becoming clinically undepressed and thinking about beginning it all.

QUIETShooter

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2022, 05:58:09 PM »
I hadda peeling dey going drag dis fackah out...........
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

eyeeatingfish

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2022, 10:24:11 PM »
"Government-tied entity?"  You got a reference for the definition of that?

Now, if the government owns and operates the property, that's a totally different issue.

Federal court overturns gun bans in Public Housinghttps://affordablehousingonline.com/blog/federal-court-overturns-gun-bans-public-housing/

I was thinking something along the lines of Kamehameha school. A few years back the government cut the JROTC program out of Kamehameha Schools because of the race based admission policy. It is a private school but received government money through the JROTC program. I don't know if there is a specific term for this so I picked those words to describe it. So in this case, a landlord accepting government money would be denying a constitutional right.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2022, 10:38:59 PM »
I was thinking something along the lines of Kamehameha school. A few years back the government cut the JROTC program out of Kamehameha Schools because of the race based admission policy. It is a private school but received government money through the JROTC program. I don't know if there is a specific term for this so I picked those words to describe it. So in this case, a landlord accepting government money would be denying a constitutional right.

If the government paid the landlord directly out of some fund that's for the landlord's use alone, that would be similar to the JROTC situation.

But, it the money is paid on behalf of and for the benefit of a specific tenant, That's not money being paid TO the landlord,  It's paid TO the tenant for their housing.  That the money then goes to the landlord is incidental to process -- it still was paid to the benefit of the tenant.  The tenant could be living in any number of subsidized apartment houses, but they chose this one.  The funding follows the tenant.

In the case of JROTC, the money remains with the school -- and if the money remained with the landlord should the tenant leave, then it would be the same situation.

Military members are given a housing allowance to live off base.  Are you saying the landlords that collect  the military members' rent are now "government tied" and under additional federal restrictions (like gun policies) which all other landlords are not?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Stack_Xchange

Re: So it begins (on Oahu)
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2022, 06:32:45 AM »
1)  At 4.07 police killings per capita, Hawaii is above average when compared to the rest of the nation. Why are police allowed to carry their guns in certain "sensitive places" while off-duty? If the goal of the citizen ban is to "keep gun violence rates the lowest in the nation", we should ask the off-duty police to do the same since they are so dangerous.

2) Thoroughly explain the benefits of a default prohibition of firearms for private entities as a cost-saving mechanic by removing the need for signage.

3) Thoroughly explain how the default prohibition of firearms in private entities reduces confrontations exclusively. That is, why not allow them by default, also to "reduce confrontations".