F Logan

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I cant read the rest of the article.

HPD chief urges community to call 911 if legal guns not concealed

By Peter Boylan Dec. 6, 2022
If you see a person walking around Oahu with a gun that is visible after the Honolulu Police Department begins issuing concealed-carry weapon licenses, please call 911, Honolulu Police Chief Arthur “Joe” Logan told the Honolulu Star-­Advertiser’s “Spotlight Hawaii” livestream program Monday.

Officers will be dispatched and investigate, Logan said, and police will need a physical description of the alleged illegal gun carrier, what was seen, what time, a location and any other information that would aid the investigation.

“Obviously, concealed carry and the definition of ‘conceal’ means that you can’t see it or it is unrecognizable to the average person,” said Logan. “If it is noticed and you can see it, I would ask you to call 911.”

There are about 600 pending applications for CCW licenses on Oahu, and the HPD is processing them in the order in which they were received.

Applications are valid for 90 days to allow for compliance with a long list of background checks, mental health evaluations, live-fire training and other requirements that must be met before HPD issues a card, with the gun owner’s picture on it, that is about the size of a Hawaii driver’s license.

If a gun owner forgets his CCW license, it is considered a misdemeanor criminal offense

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Honolulu is the last county in Hawaii to issue CCW licenses in the wake of the U.S. Supreme Court’s June ruling in New York State Rifle &Pistol Association Inc. v. Bruen. Justices nullified a New York state law limiting who can have a permit to carry a pistol outside of their home.

Logan has said he wants to comply with the high court ruling and that the HPD is not waiting for the city to complete action on Bill 57, which would define “sensitive locations” on Oahu like schools, public transportation and voting centers where guns will be prohibited.

Firearms also would be banned at Hanauma Bay Nature Preserve, the Hawaii Children’s Discovery Center, the Honolulu Aquarium and the Hono­lulu Zoo. Additionally, armed concealed-­carry license holders would have to stay 100 feet from the outer edge of groups of 25 or more people gathered in public spaces and participating in “First Amendment expressive activities.”

The state Legislature is expected to take up the issue of whether to adopt uniform state standards for where guns may be legally carried when it starts a new session in January. Bill 57 passed the first reading at a special City Council meeting Nov. 29, but needs work in committee and must be voted on twice more by the full Council to achieve final passage.

Logan is meeting with each member of the Council to make clear that the law should be as clear as possible so the public understands the rules and police officers know how to enforce them.

“We believe (guns should not be carried) in sensitive places that are logical in nature,” said Logan, listing hospitals and schools and places where “keiki hang out.”

Clearing up questions about what to do if you are legally armed but forced to enter a “sensitive place” through no fault of your own is critical to making the law work.

“The way the language of the law is written is really going to impact how we enforce,” said Logan, using the example of a person legally armed whose spouse needs them to pick up their child at the last minute. “It’s something we need to figure out.”

Police officers are asked to risk their lives every day to keep the community safe and enforce the law, Logan said, and a new regulation regarding deadly weapons has to be clear.

“It becomes a little difficult for us on an enforcement level,” said Logan. “We’re already asking our officers to do a lot.”

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And in reality the Chief is creating situations where legal gun owners/permit holders can, and with a higher probability, be shot.

Excited citizen calls 911 about a man with a gun. HPD dispatches 4 to 6 officers who are now hyped up about an encounter with a firearm. Do you really think the cops will be calm and rational? They'll be screaming at the GO to drop the weapon, get on the ground, keep your hands where they can see them and so on. The GO is trying to comply and just is saying "I have a permit, let me show you". GO attempts to get wallet and now gets shot by the cops because the rookie starts yelling "GUN GUN GUN".

Yes that's the simplified version, but the process by which there is a high likelihood of occurring. How many stories have you heard of where that scenario plays out?

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seems a reasonable thing to do.

Smokers better not use one of these in public.

And in reality the Chief is creating situations where legal gun owners/permit holders can, and with a higher probability, be shot.

Excited citizen calls 911 about a man with a gun. HPD dispatches 4 to 6 officers who are now hyped up about an encounter with a firearm. Do you really think the cops will be calm and rational? They'll be screaming at the GO to drop the weapon, get on the ground, keep your hands where they can see them and so on. The GO is trying to comply and just is saying "I have a permit, let me show you". GO attempts to get wallet and now gets shot by the cops because the rookie starts yelling "GUN GUN GUN".

Yes that's the simplified version, but the process by which there is a high likelihood of occurring. How many stories have you heard of where that scenario plays out?

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Joking version: Would be a good test of response time for 911.  As well as a case study to see if having a big dog would have helped in the situation.

Slightly more serious version:  If Karens start calling 911 more often, it will lead to "alarm fatigue".  What could go wrong? 

HPD chief urges community to call 911 if legal guns not concealed

By Peter Boylan Dec. 6, 2022
If you see a person walking around Oahu with a gun that is visible after the Honolulu Police Department begins issuing concealed-carry weapon licenses, please call 911, Honolulu Police Chief Arthur “Joe” Logan told the Honolulu Star-­Advertiser’s “Spotlight Hawaii” livestream program Monday.

Officers will be dispatched and investigate, Logan said, and police will need a physical description of the alleged illegal gun carrier, what was seen, what time, a location and any other information that would aid the investigation.

“Obviously, concealed carry and the definition of ‘conceal’ means that you can’t see it or it is unrecognizable to the average person,” said Logan. “If it is noticed and you can see it, I would ask you to call 911.”

There are about 600 pending applications for CCW licenses on Oahu, and the HPD is processing them in the order in which they were received.

Applications are valid for 90 days to allow for compliance with a long list of background checks, mental health evaluations, live-fire training and other requirements that must be met before HPD issues a card, with the gun owner’s picture on it, that is about the size of a Hawaii driver’s license.

If a gun owner forgets his CCW license, it is considered a misdemeanor criminal offense

Don't miss out on what's happening!

Stay in touch with top news, as it happens, conveniently in your email inbox. Best of all, it's FREE to sign up!

By clicking submit, you agree to Star-Advertiser's Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
Honolulu is the last county in Hawaii to issue CCW licenses in the wake of the U.S. Supreme Court’s June ruling in New York State Rifle &Pistol Association Inc. v. Bruen. Justices nullified a New York state law limiting who can have a permit to carry a pistol outside of their home.

Logan has said he wants to comply with the high court ruling and that the HPD is not waiting for the city to complete action on Bill 57, which would define “sensitive locations” on Oahu like schools, public transportation and voting centers where guns will be prohibited.

Firearms also would be banned at Hanauma Bay Nature Preserve, the Hawaii Children’s Discovery Center, the Honolulu Aquarium and the Hono­lulu Zoo. Additionally, armed concealed-­carry license holders would have to stay 100 feet from the outer edge of groups of 25 or more people gathered in public spaces and participating in “First Amendment expressive activities.”

The state Legislature is expected to take up the issue of whether to adopt uniform state standards for where guns may be legally carried when it starts a new session in January. Bill 57 passed the first reading at a special City Council meeting Nov. 29, but needs work in committee and must be voted on twice more by the full Council to achieve final passage.

Logan is meeting with each member of the Council to make clear that the law should be as clear as possible so the public understands the rules and police officers know how to enforce them.

“We believe (guns should not be carried) in sensitive places that are logical in nature,” said Logan, listing hospitals and schools and places where “keiki hang out.”

Clearing up questions about what to do if you are legally armed but forced to enter a “sensitive place” through no fault of your own is critical to making the law work.

“The way the language of the law is written is really going to impact how we enforce,” said Logan, using the example of a person legally armed whose spouse needs them to pick up their child at the last minute. “It’s something we need to figure out.”

Police officers are asked to risk their lives every day to keep the community safe and enforce the law, Logan said, and a new regulation regarding deadly weapons has to be clear.

“It becomes a little difficult for us on an enforcement level,” said Logan. “We’re already asking our officers to do a lot.”

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I think his dad was a professor at UH West. Dr. Boylan.

Fears over being the subject of an inaccurate 911 call are valid. In fact, it's something often overlooked when people analyze a use-of-force event. 911 callers are rarely held responsible for providing incorrect or misleading information, unless it is blatantly obvious it was a false statement made with some ill intent.

My main concern with the focus on the word "concealed" is that guns can sometimes 'print' without the knowledge of the carrier, even though you have made a reasonable attempt to conceal and keep the weapon concealed. This means someone may call 911 on you and you would have no idea until the police make contact, all because the wind blew a certain way, causing your gun to print. There is just so much relay of information left up to the 911 caller, dispatcher, and responding police, information that you can't possibly know, that will undoubtedly have an affect on the impending encounter. If the caller, dispatcher, or police are excitable in that moment, you could be killed despite making every attempt to be a law-abiding gun carrier. Completely law-abiding gun carriers have been killed by police simply for having a gun (Amir Locke, Atatiana Jefferson, et. al.) because of poor policework or 3rd party 911 calls, so for the Chief to say "oh, just call 911 if you see a gun" is really not inline with the progressive "stop unjustified police use-of-force" movement.
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Fears over being the subject of an inaccurate 911 call are valid. In fact, it's something often overlooked when people analyze a use-of-force event. 911 callers are rarely held responsible for providing incorrect or misleading information, unless it is blatantly obvious it was a false statement made with some ill intent.

My main concern with the focus on the word "concealed" is that guns can sometimes 'print' without the knowledge of the carrier, even though you have made a reasonable attempt to conceal and keep the weapon concealed. This means someone may call 911 on you and you would have no idea until the police make contact, all because the wind blew a certain way, causing your gun to print. There is just so much relay of information left up to the 911 caller, dispatcher, and responding police, information that you can't possibly know, that will undoubtedly have an affect on the impending encounter. If the caller, dispatcher, or police are excitable in that moment, you could be killed despite making every attempt to be a law-abiding gun carrier. Completely law-abiding gun carriers have been killed by police simply for having a gun (Amir Locke, Atatiana Jefferson, et. al.) because of poor policework or 3rd party 911 calls, so for the Chief to say "oh, just call 911 if you see a gun" is really not inline with the progressive "stop unjustified police use-of-force" movement.
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911 should ask :" Is the person pointing the gun at anyone?".  "Is the person threatening anyone?". If the answer is no, then HPD will be there when they get around to it.

I watch Armed Fisherman on YT and he plays the 911 calls with his AR slung and walking to go fishing or is fishing.  Dispatch has never asked the above questions.

Fears over being the subject of an inaccurate 911 call are valid. In fact, it's something often overlooked when people analyze a use-of-force event. 911 callers are rarely held responsible for providing incorrect or misleading information, unless it is blatantly obvious it was a false statement made with some ill intent.

My main concern with the focus on the word "concealed" is that guns can sometimes 'print' without the knowledge of the carrier, even though you have made a reasonable attempt to conceal and keep the weapon concealed. This means someone may call 911 on you and you would have no idea until the police make contact, all because the wind blew a certain way, causing your gun to print. There is just so much relay of information left up to the 911 caller, dispatcher, and responding police, information that you can't possibly know, that will undoubtedly have an affect on the impending encounter. If the caller, dispatcher, or police are excitable in that moment, you could be killed despite making every attempt to be a law-abiding gun carrier. Completely law-abiding gun carriers have been killed by police simply for having a gun (Amir Locke, Atatiana Jefferson, et. al.) because of poor policework or 3rd party 911 calls, so for the Chief to say "oh, just call 911 if you see a gun" is really not inline with the progressive "stop unjustified police use-of-force" movement.
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Some jurisdictions have made printing a felony -- similar to brandishing.  They take "concealed" very seriously.

Since HI is just now changing policy to actually issue carry licenses, I'm sure printing will be addresses in upcoming laws when the legislature goes back to work.

As for reporting people, I'm more concerned with the anti-gun people (I'm sure there are plenty in this state).  They'll be hanging out in malls and on Waikiki benches scanning for anyone they can turn in.

Then there are the intentional calls reporting a gun when the caller knows better...

Walmart: 911 caller 'intentionally lied to police' about
man with toy gun fatally shot in Ohio store

BEAVERCREEK, Ohio — In a lawsuit over the 2014 shooting by police of a Beavercreek
Walmart customer, attorneys for Walmart plan to claim that another customer who called
911 was the cause of the incident and the store should not be held responsible.

Walmart attorneys have filed motions in a wrongful death lawsuit stating that Ronald Ritchie,
the man who first called 911 from the Beavercreek Walmart stating there was a suspicious
man with a gun in the store, was the "legal and proximate cause" of John Crawford III's shooting
death by a Beavercreek police officer on Aug. 5, 2014.

“Ronald Ritchie’s lies are the sole reasons why police came into the (Beavercreek Walmart)
store with their guns drawn,” Walmart attorneys wrote. “Ronald Ritchie intentionally lied to the
police. Ronald Ritchie was not a good Samaritan who was mistaken.”

Crawford, 22, of Fairfield, was shot to death Aug. 5, 2014, by Beavercreek police Officer Sean
Williams after Ritchie told dispatchers a black man was holding a rifle, appeared to be loading
it and waving it near people, including children. Crawford was holding a Crosman MK-177 BB/
pellet rifle he found unpackaged on a store shelf.

“At worst, Ronald Ritchie could have believed he saw Mr. Crawford legally open carry a firearm,
” Walmart contends. “Nevertheless, Ronald Ritchie made the conscious decision to call 911 and
falsely report an act of violence and hostility towards some of the most vulnerable in our society,
mothers and their children, with the clear knowledge that this alleged threat of violence would be
met with armed resistance leading to the detention and/or death of Mr. Crawford.”

Waiting for the first lawsuits here after someone dies from being "S.W.A.T.-ED" as a result of the Chief's comments.

Some jurisdictions have made printing a felony -- similar to brandishing.  They take "concealed" very seriously.

Since HI is just now changing policy to actually issue carry licenses, I'm sure printing will be addresses in upcoming laws when the legislature goes back to work.

As for reporting people, I'm more concerned with the anti-gun people (I'm sure there are plenty in this state).  They'll be hanging out in malls and on Waikiki benches scanning for anyone they can turn in.

Then there are the intentional calls reporting a gun when the caller knows better...

Walmart: 911 caller 'intentionally lied to police' about
man with toy gun fatally shot in Ohio store
Waiting for the first lawsuits here after someone dies from being "S.W.A.T.-ED" as a result of the Chief's comments.

Add in the face of HIFICO whos always on the news.  Just wait till a MDA member recognizes him in the street.  There should be a penalty for false reporting someone who's not doing anything wrong.  See my 911 asking questions like "is he pointing it at anyone". Because we have seen via testimony that at least 1 person will yell and keep yelling GUN GUN GUN like how she sees on TV.

Add in the face of HIFICO whos always on the news.  Just wait till a MDA member recognizes him in the street.  There should be a penalty for false reporting someone who's not doing anything wrong.  See my 911 asking questions like "is he pointing it at anyone". Because we have seen via testimony that at least 1 person will yell and keep yelling GUN GUN GUN like how she sees on TV.

The good news is, there are so many video cameras around now (including cell phones), there's a good chance the situation is captured for verification of the 911 caller's report.

If the authorities find a report was fraudulent, the caller needs to be punished severely.

Also, yelling "GUN! GUN! GUN!" around a bunch of people should be seen as an attempt to incite panic -- no different than falsely yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater.

The good news is, there are so many video cameras around now (including cell phones), there's a good chance the situation is captured for verification of the 911 caller's report.

He may or may not have a bodycam. 

Philando Castile

As for reporting people, I'm more concerned with the anti-gun people (I'm sure there are plenty in this state).  They'll be hanging out in malls and on Waikiki benches scanning for anyone they can turn in.

I think that is the idea, legalized "SWATTING" to let those evil firearm owners know who is in charge.
And get rid of as many as possible through a willing HPD.

Fuck Logan and HPD as well as this liberal shit hole…..

Sorry, several people responded but I didn't want to multi-quote to save space.

I'm really worried about "predatory" 911 callers once CCW's are issued. I know what "Plain View" is, but when it comes to concealment, I have no idea what "Ordinary View" is. Does that mean someone's garment has lifted, revealing the firearm? How long has the garment been lifted? Does "printing" mean a firearm has come under "ordinary view"? How does "Stop & Frisk" type law apply to this in regards to "reasonable sus" and "prob cause"?

I understand people don't want CCW'ers "brandishing" or otherwise displaying weapons, but the way the concealment laws work is just too dangerous to lawful gun owners.