Howzit gang, just thought I'd start a thread to discuss CCW insurance and how you guys feel about it.

The insurance that our leaders are proposing:  It's like car insurance in case someone wants to file a civil suit against you, am I right?

And this would be mandatory and is different from the other insurance like USCCA?

So the insurance (mandatory) our leaders are proposing is for "victims" and their family to sue you for wrongdoing in a firearm incident.

While insurance like USCCA provides funds for your defense in case of criminal charges brought against you.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Seems like the costs of exercising your 2a rights in this State can get very expensive.  Application fees, classroom and range fees, and insurance fees.

So how do you members feel about all of these fees, restrictions, and if the proposed mandatory liability insurance is a good or bad thing.  And for those who already have CCW permits, do you also have protection like USCCA?

I do not have a ccw permit so theres no need for me to have insurance. problem solved.

They want insurance for stuff that doesn't exist. No self defense policy will cover criminal acts. So if  you were found guilty of murder and not innocent of self defensive use, USCCA won't cover that.  And they want to cover if a kid finds your gun and gets hurt.  Again no coverage for that cause u would have broken the "storage with regard to minors" law.

What they want to push is because they know they're full of shit and to make the anti gun people happy is a future unknown date. "When the insurance is available and approved by the insurance commissioner".  This could mean in 1 month a new product is approved or 50 years from now.  And how often do you get notice from the insurance division that a new product is available?

Since Bruen, our communist government is throwing everything they can at the 2a to send a message to all of us that Buren don't mean shit. We will find ways to deny your right.

I do not have a ccw permit so theres no need for me to have insurance. problem solved.

I don't have a CCW permit also.  Just was wondering how the members feel about it, whether they have a CCW or not, and if it is one of the reasons they hesitate to get one.

For me it's concern about the mandatory insurance, the laws that favor the criminal element, and the severe restrictions on where we can carry CCW.

Hoping for some input about the mandatory insurance.  I feel it should be voluntary but am open to input to the contrary.

They want insurance for stuff that doesn't exist. No self defense policy will cover criminal acts. So if  you were found guilty of murder and not innocent of self defensive use, USCCA won't cover that.  And they want to cover if a kid finds your gun and gets hurt.  Again no coverage for that cause u would have broken the "storage with regard to minors" law.

What they want to push is because they know they're full of shit and to make the anti gun people happy is a future unknown date. "When the insurance is available and approved by the insurance commissioner".  This could mean in 1 month a new product is approved or 50 years from now.  And how often do you get notice from the insurance division that a new product is available?

Since Bruen, our communist government is throwing everything they can at the 2a to send a message to all of us that Buren don't mean shit. We will find ways to deny your right.

Yeah.  I also believe they are throwing all kinds of sh*t out there, if it sticks fine, if not we'll find something that will.

SCOTUS decisions should be respected.  And I believe it once was.  But now, somehow and somewhere down the line corruption, BS, and self-serving agendas prevail.

Instead of finding a way to implement the Bruen decision into society, they find ways to circumvent it.  Rights of the American people are only upheld if it fits the agenda.  Right now, 2a rights are in danger of being eliminated in society.

Funny, though.  Data shows the beginning of 2023 shows huge spikes in firearm sales.  Evidently people still feel the need to arm themselves.  Where are these people when the 2a coalition needs them for support and to speak up?

There are different types of firearm insurance that exist or are trying to be enacted:

CCW -- only necessary for anyone applying for a concealed carry license

Firearm Insurance -- covers the owner in case of fire or theft loss of firearm/s

Liability insurance -- Not only covers the CCW licensee, but any gun owner if they accidentally cause injury with a firearm or if their firearm is used in a crime with or without the owners knowledge or permission.

The real intent is to jack up the cost of firearm ownership and thereby reduce the number of gun owners in the US.

Former Senator and present Governor Josh Green proposed a bill in 2016 to require ALL GUN OWNERS to have liability insurance, and he made the comparison to car insurance.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/31075992/proposal-would-require-gun-insurance-firearm-renewals-every-5-years/

"They have to pay insurance so that if they're in a collision and they hurt someone
else who's an innocent bystander, it's covered. Just like with guns, if a gun falls into
the wrong hands or if there's an accident, just an accident, it makes a lot of sense to
me that we have that extra level of responsibility," Green said.

It's an added cost of ownership that would rarely be used by a small fraction of gun owners.  Remember, this was 4 years before CCW licenses started being issued in 2022.

They pretend insurance is to defray the costs associated with gun injuries, but there are plenty of insurance policies that cover those medical costs.  This would enhance the amounts so anyone injured by your gun, whether or not you pulled the trigger, can sue you for a lifetime of damages.  They want to disincentivize gun ownership -- either because of the cost of insurance or the amount people can now sue you for even if your gun is borrowed or stolen.  If the victims' damages exceed your policy's limits, you would still be on the hook for the rest.

While this thread limits the topic to CCW insurance, the actual issue is much deeper.  Not having a HI CC License won't help you avoid getting insurance if they have their way.

Howzit gang, just thought I'd start a thread to discuss CCW insurance and how you guys feel about it.

The insurance that our leaders are proposing:  It's like car insurance in case someone wants to file a civil suit against you, am I right?

And this would be mandatory and is different from the other insurance like USCCA?

So the insurance (mandatory) our leaders are proposing is for "victims" and their family to sue you for wrongdoing in a firearm incident.

While insurance like USCCA provides funds for your defense in case of criminal charges brought against you.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Seems like the costs of exercising your 2a rights in this State can get very expensive.  Application fees, classroom and range fees, and insurance fees.

So how do you members feel about all of these fees, restrictions, and if the proposed mandatory liability insurance is a good or bad thing.  And for those who already have CCW permits, do you also have protection like USCCA?

I personally wouldn’t ever consider carrying without insurance. The last thing you’re going to want to worry about after having to defend yourself with your CCW is the fear of now being sued and having to pay some obscene amount of money in order to pay for all of the legal fees involved including bail and attorney fees. Keep in mind Hawaii is not 2a friendly and I have a feeling even if defending yourself was justified I could see them setting bail at a $1,000,000. I would much rather pay the $300-500 for that peace of mind.

I personally wouldn’t ever consider carrying without insurance. The last thing you’re going to want to worry about after having to defend yourself with your CCW is the fear of now being sued and having to pay some obscene amount of money in order to pay for all of the legal fees involved including bail and attorney fees. Keep in mind Hawaii is not 2a friendly and I have a feeling even if defending yourself was justified I could see them setting bail at a $1,000,000. I would much rather pay the $300-500 for that peace of mind.

If you think showing them an insurance card is going to solve all those problems, you are in for a rude awakening.

If you think showing them an insurance card is going to solve all those problems, you are in for a rude awakening.

I recently changed my Legal residence to WA state.
I can no longer vote in HI.
I never had any representation here anyways.
I will get my CC permit in WA and I will not buy insurance
as My homeowners covers
liability for LEGAL activities.
Unlike Hawaii, self protection is legal in WA state.
 

I recently changed my Legal residence to WA state.
I can no longer vote in HI.
I never had any representation here anyways.
I will get my CC permit in WA and I will not buy insurance
as My homeowners covers
liability for LEGAL activities.
Unlike Hawaii, self protection is legal in WA state.
 

yes, we all know. thank you.

yes, we all know. thank you.

"yes, we all know. thank you."

We all know what?
 

I personally wouldn’t ever consider carrying without insurance. The last thing you’re going to want to worry about after having to defend yourself with your CCW is the fear of now being sued and having to pay some obscene amount of money in order to pay for all of the legal fees involved including bail and attorney fees. Keep in mind Hawaii is not 2a friendly and I have a feeling even if defending yourself was justified I could see them setting bail at a $1,000,000. I would much rather pay the $300-500 for that peace of mind.

When you think about the potential overall costs of maintaining a CCW license in Hawaii, it puts a severe economical burden on a large portion of Hawaii's population that would not be able to afford it.

This demographic would most likely be senior citizens on fixed incomes, single mothers, and families earning below the national average income.  And this demographic would most likely be the ones that would be targeted by the criminal element.

Hawaii is enacting laws that are unconstitutional.  And by the way these proposed bills are written it clearly shows how anti-2a Hawaii is.

I recently changed my Legal residence to WA state.
I can no longer vote in HI.
I never had any representation here anyways.
I will get my CC permit in WA and I will not buy insurance
as My homeowners covers
liability for LEGAL activities.
Unlike Hawaii, self protection is legal in WA state.

Did about the same in Arizona, but wife insisted for some tax reason to keep the HI legal residence.   Settled for just an AZ ID and CCW permit that i did not even need.

Exactly so for being able to vote here is meaningless.  "My" state rep here voted against the "stand your ground" bill, sure do not recall her  asking my opinion on that.
Crickets after I emailed my displeasure, imaging that, not giving a shiite what constituents think.

Did about the same in Arizona, but wife insisted for some tax reason to keep the HI legal residence.   Settled for just an AZ ID and CCW permit that i did not even need.

Exactly so for being able to vote here is meaningless.  "My" state rep here voted against the "stand your ground" bill, sure do not recall her  asking my opinion on that.
Crickets after I emailed my displeasure, imaging that, not giving a shiite what constituents think.

" wife insisted for some tax reason to keep the HI legal residence"
Wife is still legal Hawaii resident.  Home owners tax exemption.
I still live in Hawaii, but enjoy freedom elsewhere  and I'm not income
taxed,
WA state has no income tax, I buy my shit at Oregon Costco, no sales tax,
and Hawaii property taxes are among the lowest in the USA,
it is nice to be retired.
 

Massad says it's important to read the fine print before putting your money down.

What i didn't include earlier is the benefit to the insured if they are arrested after a shooting.

That type of coverage to defray court costs, lawyer fees, confiscated firearm replacement, and so on is NOT what the legislature would ever mandate.  Government officials could not care less if a gun owner has insurance to guard against the legal consequences of a defensive use of gun.  They prefer you FEAR the government's expected actions against you in order to create one more significant argument against owning guns to start with.

Those kinds of policies often include liability, firearm loss/theft and so on.  you might wind up having to get a separate policy if you choose a legal protaction policy that doesn't include liability coverage should the state laws require it in the near future.

Just like with car insurance, you must pay for liability coverage to protect others, but comprehensive/collision insurance to protect your own car is optional.

If you think showing them an insurance card is going to solve all those problems, you are in for a rude awakening.

It’s not about showing anyone the card it’s about the protections that card represents it’s about the fact that with coverage you will already have people there to back you without coming out of pocket for any of those expenses. If people are balking about paying a few hundred dollars for the annual policy premium imagine how bad it could be when they need to post $100k bail then attorney and legal fees on top of that.

They should require insurance for people to speak. You know just in case someone’s feeling get hurt. Same thing

Bail bond, criminal trial, civil trial, expert witnesses, appeals...if you want good representation you'll be looking at a half million.

USCCA covers not only firearms, but any weapon you use not prohibited by law.  If you got attacked and used a knife or bat or cmu block to stop the threat, you are covered. My plan is $40 a month and I think it is worth the $2M coverage.