Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws (Read 11496 times)

Tom_G

Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« on: December 08, 2012, 07:19:56 AM »
From today's Star Advertiser:

Quote
By Ken Kobayashi

A federal judge has rejected the latest challenge to Hawaii gun control laws by dismissing a lawsuit filed by a Hawaii island man who claimed the statutes violate his rights under the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment.

The ruling by Senior U.S. District Judge Helen Gillmor follows a line of Hawaii federal court decisions rejecting similar challenges to state gun laws.

Jonathan Lowy, Brady Center Legal Action Project director, hailed the ruling Friday and said the decision is also the latest nationwide upholding state restrictions on carrying guns in public.

George K. Young Jr., 62, a nonlawyer representing himself, filed his lawsuit in June claiming that state laws violate his constitutional right to bear arms under the Second Amendment.

He contended his rights were violated when Hawaii County police denied him a license to carry a concealed or unconcealed gun in public.

Young earlier filed two similar federal lawsuits that were thrown out by the federal court.

"Hawaii's firearm carrying laws do not violate the plaintiff's Second Amendment rights," Gillmor said in a 40-page decision filed Nov. 29.

"The carrying laws do not restrict the core protection afforded by the Second Amendment."

Lowy said they were pleased that Gillmor went out of her way to issue the "well-thought" ruling for a lawsuit filed by a nonlawyer.

Two decisions in 2008 and 2010 by the U.S. Supreme Court opened the way for a flood of challenges to state gun control laws across the country.

The rulings held the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm and that the amendment applies to states.

But Lowy said courts have been upholding "reasonable restrictions on carrying guns in public in New York, New Jersey, California and elsewhere."

He said Gillmor found that the "weight of legal authority" view of the U.S. Supreme Court's decisions establish "only a narrow individual right to keep an operable handgun at home for self-defense."

Young said Gillmor is "totally wrong" in ruling that state officials are immune from the lawsuit, but said he does not plan to appeal.

Young's suit asked for a permit to carry a concealed or unconcealed gun and at least $2 million in damages.

A similar challenge to the state gun control laws is now before the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. The case involves Christopher Baker, who sought a court order permitting him to carry a handgun in public.

Senior U.S. District Judge Alan Kay denied Baker's request earlier this year.

The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence is named after White House press secretary James Brady, who was shot in a 1981 assassination attempt on President Ronald Reagan.

The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

bass monkey

Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2012, 07:30:24 AM »
Interesting all these anti gun judges

spanner1751

Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2012, 11:42:27 AM »
What's amazing to me is the fact that different states have such varying interpretations of the Second Amendment.

Gordyf

Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2012, 02:18:52 PM »
So...
Now this is entered as case law, precedent having been set. I'll bet we see this material again. Probably used against us.
Too bad the guy was too Po'o Pa'a to engage competent legal help.
Didn't somebody say that the man who represents himself in court has a fool for a client? or words to that effect.
You can bet that if the Brady bunch was involved they had a top notch legal team.
Aloha
Gordy

2aHawaii

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Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2012, 02:19:14 PM »
Make sure you guys don't get this confused with Chris Baker's case, which is still pending a decision.

I haven't payed attention to the George K. Young, Jr. case, but it didn't get much publicity and probably wasn't going to win representing himself.
I am not a lawyer.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - United States Constitution Amendment 2 & Hawaii State Constitution Article 1 Section 17

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Dolomite

Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2012, 03:25:53 PM »
Interesting.... They should reduce the hand gun registration procedures... The permit and class is great, but going back and forth to the police station is just ridiculous.

Gordyf

Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2012, 05:22:43 PM »
Make sure you guys don't get this confused with Chris Baker's case, which is still pending a decision.

I haven't payed attention to the George K. Young, Jr. case, but it didn't get much publicity and probably wasn't going to win representing himself.

Chris is waaaaay more organized than try and represent himself.
Nobody ever does win thenm that way, but they keep on trying,





-- fixed end bracket on quote (it was missing)  - funtimes.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 05:55:09 PM by Funtimes »
Aloha
Gordy

rswarrior1700

Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2012, 09:53:07 AM »
Chris is waaaaay more organized than try and represent himself.
Nobody ever does win thenm that way, but they keep on trying,

I'm crossing fingers for Chris...

As Mr.Young's case what was his grounds on taking it up to court?




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230RN

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Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2012, 11:18:48 AM »
bass monkey remarked:
Quote
Interesting all these anti gun judges.

<smartass wisecrack> 

They're all hoping for a SCOTUS appointment and are well aware of who'll be making that appointment.

</smartass wisecrack>

« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 11:23:50 AM by 230RN »
I do believe that the radical and crazy notion that the Founders meant what they said, is gradually soaking through the judicial system.

Water

Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2012, 08:30:47 PM »
Did nobody else read that he was asking for a permit to carry and $2 million in damages?? How did he try and justify that!? Typical American greed. No wonder this case got thrown out. I shouldn't be ranting as I don't know the whole truth to this case but it just sounded stupid from what info I just read. I better hurry up and sue mcdonalds because I choked on my chicken nuggets due to the packaging not telling me to chew my food before swallowing.

Cougar8045

Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2012, 07:49:50 AM »
Did nobody else read that he was asking for a permit to carry and $2 million in damages?? How did he try and justify that!? Typical American greed. No wonder this case got thrown out. I shouldn't be ranting as I don't know the whole truth to this case but it just sounded stupid from what info I just read. I better hurry up and sue mcdonalds because I choked on my chicken nuggets due to the packaging not telling me to chew my food before swallowing.
I'd have been happy to see him awarded massive punitive damages.  It might make his case less popular, but state and city governments who wipe their asses with the Constitution deserve to be punished.  Having your rights violated by the organs of state is significantly different than choking on a fast food chain's product. 
I'm just a fluffy white bunny rabbit who lost his way. 

"If a thief be found breaking in, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. ..."  -Exodus 22:2

Colt808

Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2012, 12:35:00 PM »
Under funded and not well organized? Perhaps. BUT we shouldn't ridicule a guy for stepping up and fighting for something we all believe in (or at least should). I applaud Mr. Young for the effort.
Did nobody else read that he was asking for a permit to carry and $2 million in damages?? How did he try and justify that!? Typical American greed. No wonder this case got thrown out. I shouldn't be ranting as I don't know the whole truth to this case but it just sounded stupid from what info I just read. I better hurry up and sue mcdonalds because I choked on my chicken nuggets due to the packaging not telling me to chew my food before swallowing.
Asking for outrageous punitive judgements is nothing new and definitely not a indication of greed. We're not talking about a personal injury case...it's about a constitutional right, so ask yourself what's that worth to you? Personally, I can't put a value on that and would've probably asked for a trillion dollars then put it towards paying the National debt.
Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it. ~Thomas Paine


And I still see stupid people.

Tom_G

Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2012, 12:40:53 PM »
I'd have been happy to see him awarded massive punitive damages.  It might make his case less popular, but state and city governments who wipe their asses with the Constitution deserve to be punished.  Having your rights violated by the organs of state is significantly different than choking on a fast food chain's product. 

So, punish the government financially? And where do government dollars come from? With one million folks in Hawaii, thats two dollars each. Why should I pay Mr Young two dollars in restitution for a right I didnt deprive him of?
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

Funtimes

Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2012, 01:23:51 PM »
So, punish the government financially? And where do government dollars come from? With one million folks in Hawaii, thats two dollars each. Why should I pay Mr Young two dollars in restitution for a right I didnt deprive him of?

Well, when people start getting hit for money (agencies), the rest of the city is going to look at them to clean up their act.  If HPD starts costing people millions of dollars, then they would think twice about screwing things up.

Where it gets even better is when you start hitting people and voiding their qualified immunity.
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Cougar8045

Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2012, 01:24:55 PM »
So, punish the government financially? And where do government dollars come from? With one million folks in Hawaii, thats two dollars each. Why should I pay Mr Young two dollars in restitution for a right I didnt deprive him of?
How many of those million folks support bans on concealed carry?  Seems to me it's damn near all of them, and I'm fine with them being sent a bill.  For guys like us, who didn't support the deprivation of Young's rights, think of all the dollars you spend when someone lands in the hospital and can't pay; you didn't stab that guy or clog his arteries, either, but you're still footing the bill.  Unlike an emergency room patient, the two bucks would go towards something that actually benefits you--the restoration of Constitutional rights in Hawaii.
I'm just a fluffy white bunny rabbit who lost his way. 

"If a thief be found breaking in, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. ..."  -Exodus 22:2

Funtimes

Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2012, 01:33:04 PM »
So, punish the government financially? And where do government dollars come from? With one million folks in Hawaii, thats two dollars each. Why should I pay Mr Young two dollars in restitution for a right I didnt deprive him of?

While this may not apply to you directly, if they don't want to pay money than they shouldn't violate peoples rights.   If the people don't like paying for it, then they can vote for someone(s) who will enact legislation that brings the state back in line with the constitution. For us who understand that, we are unfortunately a captive hostage to the majority.
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pastordennis

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Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2012, 03:25:14 PM »
Please dont tease Chris. Hes just a little smarter than he looks. This bozo just set precedent for all of us. Knuckle head. Or as my late friend Sam used to say... Taro Head. Yet another 2@ user that not helping us. All he gotta do is hang with us. As how I came more smart!!!??? You cannot soar like eagles if you hang with cabbage butterflies??? Dang I'm so mad. By the way Chris.... you do resemble my remark about you :)
Pastor Dennis

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Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2012, 03:26:35 PM »
As da kine time I like use da "F" word.

Water

Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2012, 08:53:08 PM »
Well, when people start getting hit for money (agencies), the rest of the city is going to look at them to clean up their act.  If HPD starts costing people millions of dollars, then they would think twice about screwing things up.

Where it gets even better is when you start hitting people and voiding their qualified immunity.
  I see your point but not entirely true. LAPD gets sued all the time yet not much has changed in their doings. I might be mistaken but their budget still  a good sum of money on the side for lawsuits. I'm pretty sure HPD doesn't include that. One thing that changed with LAPD it's that there are no rodney king incidents anymore... Well not as much now. Lawsuits like Mr Youngs help pave the road to protecting or creating civil rights, like your miranda rights... not money.

Funtimes

Re: Federal judge dismisses suit over isle gun laws
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2012, 11:36:54 PM »
  I see your point but not entirely true. LAPD gets sued all the time yet not much has changed in their doings. I might be mistaken but their budget still  a good sum of money on the side for lawsuits. I'm pretty sure HPD doesn't include that. One thing that changed with LAPD it's that there are no rodney king incidents anymore... Well not as much now. Lawsuits like Mr Youngs help pave the road to protecting or creating civil rights, like your miranda rights... not money.

Well, I'm not sure Mr. Young's lawsuit did any good at all for anyone.  We are already in the court of appeals above him (and further along) with my case challenging CCW. 

As far as the money goes, cities do have insurance policies for some of this (as far as I understand), so some judgments may come out of that policy.
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