Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel (Read 6708 times)

Westside_Redneck

Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« on: September 30, 2023, 10:23:39 AM »
So I've been looking about the forums and I did not see any thread regarding this topic so I thought I would ask here.

I've received a Jury summons, which means there's a good chance I will have to fly to Oahu. I have a had family and friends tell me that the courts will give you shitty hotel accommodations in the scummy parts of town. Because of all alleged crime that's incrementally getting worse in Oahu as well as the homeless situation, I'm thinking about bringing a non lethal weapon that I can make space between myself and a would-be aggressor. Keep in mind, I'm thinking of anytime I'm outside the courtroom or where-ever I need to be as part of my civic duty.

I already talked to a gunshop owner in Kauai and he tells me I can't bring my pepper spray in my checked luggage aboard flights like Hawaiian, they further dissuade me from bringing it because it looks like a gun as well
https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/714018590/msi+pepper+gun+2.0+blk+org+13oz


So I am left with the following options, Either a stun gun baton, a short model that I can carry (like this one or similar). I heard that according to the AG we can carry those now thanks to Taser being made legal.
https://www.amazon.com/Safety-Technology-Master-Volts-Black/dp/B07MTQKCH4/ref=pd_ybh_a_sccl_1/146-1701315-4707056?pd_rd_w=dW00q&content-id=amzn1.sym.67f8cf21-ade4-4299-b433-69e404eeecf1&pf_rd_p=67f8cf21-ade4-4299-b433-69e404eeecf1&pf_rd_r=YY2D6SM39JJ8SCBS6Z8M&pd_rd_wg=0VqgU&pd_rd_r=49be1d9b-c2d1-4341-be5e-02eae05ba395&pd_rd_i=B07MTQKCH4&psc=1


My other option is entirely dependent on whether or not I could let this one slide past the "Dangerous Weapons", a tactical whip
https://www.amazon.com/ZHONNA-Multi-Purpose-Tactical-Portable-%EF%BC%8CBicycle/dp/B0CGJQN67L/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=tactical+whip&qid=1696104725&s=amazon-pharmacy&sr=1-1


The only other EDC options I can throw easily into my checked luggage are my tactical pen, flashlight (night use) or any of my pocket and fixed-blade knives. I don't like having to rely on knives though, because the only good way to use them is to commit to deadly force.

Any ideas or thoughts on the matter? What would you folks recommend for traveling from the quiet island to the riot island

macsak

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2023, 11:01:26 AM »
i think you should be ok, it's not that bad here on oahu
but if you feel the need, a collapsible baton is considered non-lethal...

So I've been looking about the forums and I did not see any thread regarding this topic so I thought I would ask here.

I've received a Jury summons, which means there's a good chance I will have to fly to Oahu. I have a had family and friends tell me that the courts will give you shitty hotel accommodations in the scummy parts of town. Because of all alleged crime that's incrementally getting worse in Oahu as well as the homeless situation, I'm thinking about bringing a non lethal weapon that I can make space between myself and a would-be aggressor. Keep in mind, I'm thinking of anytime I'm outside the courtroom or where-ever I need to be as part of my civic duty.

I already talked to a gunshop owner in Kauai and he tells me I can't bring my pepper spray in my checked luggage aboard flights like Hawaiian, they further dissuade me from bringing it because it looks like a gun as well
https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/714018590/msi+pepper+gun+2.0+blk+org+13oz


So I am left with the following options, Either a stun gun baton, a short model that I can carry (like this one or similar). I heard that according to the AG we can carry those now thanks to Taser being made legal.
https://www.amazon.com/Safety-Technology-Master-Volts-Black/dp/B07MTQKCH4/ref=pd_ybh_a_sccl_1/146-1701315-4707056?pd_rd_w=dW00q&content-id=amzn1.sym.67f8cf21-ade4-4299-b433-69e404eeecf1&pf_rd_p=67f8cf21-ade4-4299-b433-69e404eeecf1&pf_rd_r=YY2D6SM39JJ8SCBS6Z8M&pd_rd_wg=0VqgU&pd_rd_r=49be1d9b-c2d1-4341-be5e-02eae05ba395&pd_rd_i=B07MTQKCH4&psc=1


My other option is entirely dependent on whether or not I could let this one slide past the "Dangerous Weapons", a tactical whip
https://www.amazon.com/ZHONNA-Multi-Purpose-Tactical-Portable-%EF%BC%8CBicycle/dp/B0CGJQN67L/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=tactical+whip&qid=1696104725&s=amazon-pharmacy&sr=1-1


The only other EDC options I can throw easily into my checked luggage are my tactical pen, flashlight (night use) or any of my pocket and fixed-blade knives. I don't like having to rely on knives though, because the only good way to use them is to commit to deadly force.

Any ideas or thoughts on the matter? What would you folks recommend for traveling from the quiet island to the riot island

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2023, 11:15:49 AM »
My first concern would be if you're driving a rental.  Don't leave anything in the car unattended, including your rental contract -- it contains personal information plus you need it to show the cops if stopped or go through a DUI checkpoint in lieu of registration and insurance card.  Rentals are targeted on Oahu no matter where you park.

Next would be leaving what EDC you choose in the car when in court.  The courthouse parking area is probably less risky, but it's still something to consider.  If you can place "it" in a bag and check it with courthouse security, then pick it up as you leave, that would be ideal.

i'd personally opt for a baton (not taser type) over a knife.  More stand-off distance.  A knife requires you be close enough to be hit, grabbed or stabbed, too.  I'd want to maintain distance with the threat.  A Taser is useful when you see you can't stop the threat with a defensive posture, but until you deploy it, it's not that intimidating.

According to the reviews, that stun baton is only good if you are close enough to touch the target and shock them.  It will break (plastic) if you try to use it for striking.  Something to consider.  I'd prefer a Taser with probes that maintain that distance, but if facing more than one person, you can only stop one of them with it unless it's the kind that also has contacts for stun gun application.

Do all the typical things we warn tourists about: 
- Don't go to areas you don't know if they look shady
- Don't go to bars alone
- Don't go strolling down the street at 2AM
- Don't flash cash
- Try not to dress like a tourist
- Carry a throw-away wallet with $20-40 bucks and maybe an expired license in it.  Keep your current ID, credit/debit cards, rest of your cash, etc. in another wallet.  If someone "asks" for your wallet, they won't get all your important items.
- Always be aware of your surroundings, and pay attention to anyone who appears to be paying attention to you

The list goes on, but mainly use common sense so you don't find yourself in need of defensive weapons.

I know some people carry whistles or air horns (in purses) to get others' attention.

A cane or walking stick can appear very innocuous but be pretty effective if needed.

As for sprays, they do sell them on Oahu.  It might not be the brand or type you prefer, but buying at a local gun store here can avoid the air travel restrictions.  Before you leave for home, make sure to donate it to a nearby homeless person.   :geekdanc: :shaka:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

zippz

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2023, 12:22:02 PM »
I've carried pepper spray on Hawaiian check in luggage and never got it taken in 60 trips.  A friend of mine got his confiscated, a TSA screening agent confiscated it for Hawaiian, which they shouldn't have done.  It's a Hawaiian Airlines policy prohibiting OC.  TSA allows it.

At worst it'll get confiscated (highly unlikely) and you buy a new one.

RSN172

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2023, 02:04:31 PM »
A shock type baton is prohibited as is ANY type of Taser type weapon according to HA baggage policy. A cane is allowed even in the courtroom, but if you are a younger healthy looking person some may question why you are carrying a cane.  Of course I mean a defensive cane, not one of those adjustable hollow aluminum canes.  I once saw a pretty buff looking guy about 30 years old and close to 6 ft taking a defensive cane thru security at the airport.   TSA did not question or stop him.  I know he was carrying that as a weapon.

Funny thing is anyone who REALLY needs a cane to walk will not be capable of defending themselves with it.
Happily living in Puna

hvybarrels

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2023, 02:07:11 PM »
I second buying more pepper spray

Sharing is caring, but forced redistribution is communism.

Westside_Redneck

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2023, 02:27:35 PM »
My first concern would be if you're driving a rental.  Don't leave anything in the car unattended, including your rental contract -- it contains personal information plus you need it to show the cops if stopped or go through a DUI checkpoint in lieu of registration and insurance card.  Rentals are targeted on Oahu no matter where you park.

Next would be leaving what EDC you choose in the car when in court.  The courthouse parking area is probably less risky, but it's still something to consider.  If you can place "it" in a bag and check it with courthouse security, then pick it up as you leave, that would be ideal.

i'd personally opt for a baton (not taser type) over a knife.  More stand-off distance.  A knife requires you be close enough to be hit, grabbed or stabbed, too.  I'd want to maintain distance with the threat.  A Taser is useful when you see you can't stop the threat with a defensive posture, but until you deploy it, it's not that intimidating.

According to the reviews, that stun baton is only good if you are close enough to touch the target and shock them.  It will break (plastic) if you try to use it for striking.  Something to consider.  I'd prefer a Taser with probes that maintain that distance, but if facing more than one person, you can only stop one of them with it unless it's the kind that also has contacts for stun gun application.

Do all the typical things we warn tourists about: 
- Don't go to areas you don't know if they look shady
- Don't go to bars alone
- Don't go strolling down the street at 2AM
- Don't flash cash
- Try not to dress like a tourist
- Carry a throw-away wallet with $20-40 bucks and maybe an expired license in it.  Keep your current ID, credit/debit cards, rest of your cash, etc. in another wallet.  If someone "asks" for your wallet, they won't get all your important items.
- Always be aware of your surroundings, and pay attention to anyone who appears to be paying attention to you

The list goes on, but mainly use common sense so you don't find yourself in need of defensive weapons.

I know some people carry whistles or air horns (in purses) to get others' attention.

A cane or walking stick can appear very innocuous but be pretty effective if needed.

As for sprays, they do sell them on Oahu.  It might not be the brand or type you prefer, but buying at a local gun store here can avoid the air travel restrictions.  Before you leave for home, make sure to donate it to a nearby homeless person.   :geekdanc: :shaka:

Some excellent tips here, will definitely consider the checking in a bag at the courthouse option!

I do not see myself grabbing a self defense cane since I can walk just fine. I'm looking at something concealable for when the moment arises.

I see a lot of responses advocating for the collapsible baton and talking me out of the shock-type weapons. So with that said, would the tactical whip from the OP be the next best option besides the collapsible baton?
https://www.amazon.com/ZHONNA-Multi-Purpose-Tactical-Portable-%EF%BC%8CBicycle/dp/B0CGJQN67L/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=tactical+whip&qid=1696104725&s=amazon-pharmacy&sr=1-1

I do not like the pronged launcher tazer, it limits you to one assailant and the failure rate of them does not give me a lot of confidence.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2023, 03:34:07 PM »
Some excellent tips here, will definitely consider the checking in a bag at the courthouse option!

I do not see myself grabbing a self defense cane since I can walk just fine. I'm looking at something concealable for when the moment arises.

I see a lot of responses advocating for the collapsible baton and talking me out of the shock-type weapons. So with that said, would the tactical whip from the OP be the next best option besides the collapsible baton?
https://www.amazon.com/ZHONNA-Multi-Purpose-Tactical-Portable-%EF%BC%8CBicycle/dp/B0CGJQN67L/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=tactical+whip&qid=1696104725&s=amazon-pharmacy&sr=1-1

I do not like the pronged launcher tazer, it limits you to one assailant and the failure rate of them does not give me a lot of confidence.

That whip has a reach of 11.8 inches -- let's say a foot.

To be able to reach someone and inflict pain, you'd have to be within that foot.

I imagine the attacker's arms are longer than a foot, so they can grab your arm before your whip contacts their face or torso.

Just looking at it from a practical sense.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2023, 05:25:58 PM »
With all the made up racism, what would happen if this whip was used on a black guy?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2023, 05:48:28 PM »
With all the made up racism, what would happen if this whip was used on a black guy?

That's just crazy talk!

 :crazy:


The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Sodie

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2023, 05:56:34 PM »
With all the made up racism, what would happen if this whip was used on a black guy?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

After looking at it on Amazon, I suspect it would cause a black guy (or anybody else you use it on) to become very annoyed with you. 

I don’t think it would be very effective at stopping an assault.  Seriously looks like a complete gimmick

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2023, 06:00:55 PM »
After looking at it on Amazon, I suspect it would cause a black guy (or anybody else you use it on) to become very annoyed with you. 

I don’t think it would be very effective at stopping an assault.  Seriously looks like a complete gimmick

Might make a cool cat toy ... for a cat you don't like.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

QUIETShooter

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2023, 06:34:01 PM »
Nowadays with liberal laws that favor the low-lifes, to me the best non-lethal weapon might very well be the throw away wallet with $20 and an old ID that Flapp mentioned.

Throw the wallet at the puke and keep your distance, slowly increasing it but keeping your eye on your surroundings.

If that fails, then fight.  Don't worry about anything else.  It's SHTF time.  Survive.  Throw rocks, dirt, chairs, whatever is around you, utilize.  Of course if you are carrying other  weapons use them.

You tried to be non-confrontational.  It's F-you time.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

zippz

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2023, 06:38:41 PM »

I do not like the pronged launcher tazer, it limits you to one assailant and the failure rate of them does not give me a lot of confidence.

It's not so bad.  It's 100% effective half the time.

Even if you miss you get a second chance with the drive stun (contact) mode to injure or to stun if at least one prob connected.

I prefer a distance weapon...OC or Taser...than a baton.  Baton requires some training


eyeeatingfish

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2023, 07:23:03 PM »
You could check out the pocket whips, a braided cable attached to a handle. Very painful but near zero risk you could ever kill someone with it. I just happen to have some for sale BTW!

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2023, 07:25:32 PM »
You could check out the pocket whips, a braided cable attached to a handle. Very painful but near zero risk you could ever kill someone with it. I just happen to have some for sale BTW!

SWOOSH!
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

RSN172

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2023, 07:35:28 PM »
I have had  a baton for 20 years and never carried it. Heavy and hard to conceal. My EDC is a Mace pepper gun and a X26 Taser with the LE 25 ft cartridge.   I keep a set on Oahu and the BI since I travel between these islands often. I also carry a fixed blade knife, tip up. 

If things get up close and personal and you need to use your knife, don't think you need to strike your opponents body or head.  Cut the closest target, which will be his hand or arm. In Filipino martial arts,  they call it defanging the snake.
Happily living in Puna

macsak

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2023, 07:35:47 PM »

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2023, 07:41:29 PM »
i thought you blocked him...

bored ...
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: Best non-lethal weapon for inter-island travel
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2023, 07:45:36 PM »