about an hour after posting that their distributer was canceling/back ordering 5.56 ammo due to shortage. Firearms international raised their price on their in stock 223 cases..i could see if we was ordering online to be delivered to their store. but it was product that was already in stock and selling for 549.99. now price is 599.99. i dont know about you guys, but to me, thats BS. taking advantage of a bad situation. take what you will from this post, just thought i would mention it. 

You mean these guys?



https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1247945482658449&set=a.1026546164798383

If they raised the prices because they can't get more in stock soon (which seems to be the case), then I ask if you expect them to sell what little ammo they HAD at the same lower price?  How are they supposed to pay their bills if they can't get 5.56/.223 in the foreseeable future?

They can either sell what little they have at higher prices and get a little more profit to weather the coming storm, or they can cut their own throats (and their employees') by selling for less and have nothing to sell for "who knows how long?".

As a consumer, you can shop around and buy cheaper if you can find it.  If this was the last stock on island, you could have bought it at the higher price, then advertised it for more in a month to make yourself a profit.  Someone would buy it, I'm sure.

Capitalism is a system of free choice.  You can pay what's being asked, or you can choose not to. 

Price gouging?  More like trying to keep the lights on and the doors open.

JMHO, of course.

then let me ask you something...so in your theory, you would be ok, with stores raising the price of food and water and such in lahaina, simply because they couldnt get more due to the fact, that the harbor shutdown due to the fire? gouging is gouging..thats why there is laws against it.

then let me ask you something...so in your theory, you would be ok, with stores raising the price of food and water and such in lahaina, simply because they couldnt get more due to the fact, that the harbor shutdown due to the fire? gouging is gouging..thats why there is laws against it.

i'll answer your question with a question.

What's the difference between food, water, gas, building supplies, generators, propane, plastic sheeting, and so forth during and after a hurricane VERSUS guns and ammo?  In places that have laws against gouging, THOSE are the types of things the laws cover.

That long list of items are things needed to survive.  Guns and ammo are not the same as food, water and shelter.  I learned that in Boy Scouts.  Priorities in a survival setting have to include necessities first.

So, if we were talking social collapse, foreign invasion, gangs of thugs going into homes to rape, plunder and pillage, then maybe you'd be able to call "raising prices of guns and ammo" "price gouging." 

But since I don't see guns and ammo on the same level of survival necessities as food and water, then I wouldn't go there.

Someone pointed out  to me the other day that in some instances gouging is actually doing the community a favor.
Young Guns was gouging pretty hard during the last drought, but they still had a decent supply of ammo while everyone else was sold out. So it wasn't selling as well, but it was still available if you absolutely needed it.
They were basically protecting us from the panic buyers who are the real problem.

I'm not 100% convinced by that theory but it does have some merit. If you got caught in a bad situation would you rather have overpriced ammo or no ammo?

This was predictable when LC shut off civilian sales.
It's just the simple supply and demand rule.
Ammo is a commodity like bread and gas.

That's why I started baking my own bread. LOL

The domino effect will affect the price of components like brass and powder and primers.
It'll also affect the cost of reloading equipment.

hhmmm...maybe I won't declutter my house yet.

A couple of years ago when I bought my ammo I bought it for a higher price than it was a year or two before.

Today the ammo I have is priced higher than when I bought it a couple of years ago.

What I ask myself is:

Do I need it?

What are the chances it will get cheaper?

What are the chances it will get more expensive?

What are the chances it will be hard to get?

Then I take it from there.

In my humble opinion, RIGHT NOW, If you can AFFORD TO, buy ammunition for your firearms.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/law-of-supply-demand.asp

OPEC manipulates supply all the time to influence prices. When gas prices jumped to $4 a gallon a few years ago and remained there ever since - no one is complaining. People are still driving 200tree lifted Tacomas instead of smaller cars. Don't believe me - go to Costco wait in line and watch. Lake City isn't the only supplier of ammo. Their priority is govt supply not consumer.
The AR market has grown over the years. More AR shooters = more ammo consumption. More people "training" - more ammo appetite.

i can see everybody's side on this. and trust me when i say im not trying to start WW3 in the forums. i just think its wrong when you ALREADY have the product in stock that you paid a certain price for and was selling it for a certain price. then you got some insider information, now you want to make more of a profit because of it. i could see if they was able to get more but it cost X amount more, so their price went up, which is what happened in the pandemic. plants shutdown, supplier stock went low, therefore from the manufacturer prices went up. and you are absolutely right braddah Flapp, food, water and shelter are way different then guns and ammo. but my point was that, it is wrong for companies to capitalize on this sort of things. and if its to say they doing it to keep the lights on, they lights was on in the pandemic to, without the ammo. they make most of their money off of accessories. but i dont want argue about this with any of my 2a braddahs about this. as i stated in my original post, you can take from this what you will...i for one will not support a company that is willing to do that kind of practices.. mahalo

i can see everybody's side on this. and trust me when i say im not trying to start WW3 in the forums. i just think its wrong when you ALREADY have the product in stock that you paid a certain price for and was selling it for a certain price. then you got some insider information, now you want to make more of a profit because of it. i could see if they was able to get more but it cost X amount more, so their price went up, which is what happened in the pandemic. plants shutdown, supplier stock went low, therefore from the manufacturer prices went up. and you are absolutely right braddah Flapp, food, water and shelter are way different then guns and ammo. but my point was that, it is wrong for companies to capitalize on this sort of things. and if its to say they doing it to keep the lights on, they lights was on in the pandemic to, without the ammo. they make most of their money off of accessories. but i dont want argue about this with any of my 2a braddahs about this. as i stated in my original post, you can take from this what you will...i for one will not support a company that is willing to do that kind of practices.. mahalo

its market forces. It wasn' "insider information" The market knew a large manufacturer stopped commercial orders. One poster already pulled his ammo off the market due to increased demand. This is the free market. Firearms International isn't the only retailer in town. We have choices to go another shop.

If you think the market for ammo is bad, the Hawaii housing market has been brutal in the last several years. Bottom line, if you had the money you had choices. You won't buy the ammo at that price but someone out there who has the means will.

It's supply and demand which works well even during emergencies.

Raising prices allow businesses to stay in business when they can't get supply as Flapp said.  It encourages manufacturers and stores to produce and sell more.  It also encourages people to buy and store more before shortages occur. Higher prices during emergencies prevent hoarding and reselling.  So people that need some can still get it from the stores even if priced higher.

make your own
https://www.powdervalley.com/product/sharpshooter-primer-cup-maker/

https://www.dillonprecision.com/

Home Depot will raise the price of in stock items immediately as soon as they get a price increase notice from their supplier.

In comparison, City Mill will not raise the price of in stock items until they actually buy at the higher price and place it on
the store shelf. It is something that I really appreciate and I hope it stays that way. I believe that we are heading toward
a major depression in spite of what the occupant of the white house says. Come On Man! Brandon did a lot to create this
mess and he and his cronies will double down on stupid.

The price increases shouldn't last long as Israel produces a lot of their own ammo and Gaza is a relatively small engagement.

It's a small blip due to some panic buying.  Prices will come back down in a couple months.

This just shows you should buy when it’s cheap not at when it’s  convenience for you! They need to up their prices because they will have nothing in stock after! 101 capitalism

BUT.

Check your ammo stocks.  Analyze how you train, how often you replenish training ammo, etc.

You don't have to stockpile.  But you cannot afford, due to these crazy times, to not have ammo for your firearms.

This is kinda off-topic but want to share.  Long ago as a youngster I used to work at Foodland.  Part of our job as front end clerks was doing what they called "price change".

It was a never ending process.  Corporate would send down a list of items we would "price change" and usually the price of the items already in stock we would change to the new price.  This was in the prehistoric days where we manually would take off the old price sticker and put the new sticker on.

And yes, we would get lectured why when it was old stock and not new stock by irate customers.

 

Theyre overpriced anyways.

Luckily, the bays are closed so we havent shot 223 in over a year.

This brings up, do things sooner than later. Including training. No one forsaw the range being closed and bays closed for this long. I got a friend who i was willing to pay for anHRA membership, amno and skill builder, but he kept flaking. He didnt have $ at the time.

Now he regrets it. He has ammo, guns.but only shooting he did was from a bench/line. Hes practicing admin stuff at home, but being at the range shooting is slightly different.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Maybe Foodland will price change up for all those gun-buyback gift certificates. 

The price increases shouldn't last long as Israel produces a lot of their own ammo and Gaza is a relatively small engagement.

It's a small blip due to some panic buying.  Prices will come back down in a couple months.

it's not just panic buying.  Some are stocking up so they aren't paying even higher prices 6-12 months from now.  Others are speculating ammo prices will again double and triple in the coming year as everyone stocks up and suppliers are unable to replenish.  That second group will be selling 1000 rds of .223 for $1,000 or more.  When ammo is impossible to find in stores, you'll pay that $1,000 to make sure you have what you think you need.

If you want to see what real price gouging looks like, do some reading into Cheaper Than Dirt ...

https://www.athlonoutdoors.com/article/cheaper-than-dirt-price-gouging/

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2020/12/16/gun-website-price-gouging-pandemic/3932523001/

Of course, the general public isn't the only target of certain ammo makers engaging in price gouging:

A bipartisan group of lawmakers is set to reintroduce a bill to rein in
price gouging by military contractors, CBS News has learned.

The Stop Price Gouging the Military Act, first introduced by
Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Rep. John Raymond Garamendi in
June of last year, would close acquisition law loopholes, tie financial
incentives for contractors to performance and provide the Department
of Defense with information needed to prevent future rip-offs.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/contractors-price-gouging-pentagon-lawmakers-legislation/?intcid=CNM-00-10abd1h

It's wise to go into any purchase with your eyes open.  Do some research to find the average and lowest prices.  Buy at the best price you can find.  If you can wait for the market to settle back down, it might become cheaper, however, it doesn't always settle back at the bottom price point it was at before the surge.

I'd just be careful of throwing around the term "price gouging" unless that's truly what's happening. Raising prices for valid supply/demand and future availability isn't gouging IMO. 

I don't know about now, but OGC in the past had a policy to sell their ammo at cost + overhead + reasonable profit.  During the beginning of one of the ammo droughts, they had some already on order and in transit.  They sold that at lower than current market prices because they paid for it 3-6 months before.  But, when prices started trending much higher, they had their pending orders cancelled by wholesalers and factories. If they wanted more, they had to re-order at the new higher prices.  Some wholesalers were selling out so fast, none of OGC's orders were being filled.  Cheaper and quicker to sell on the mainland.

Their pricing policy didn't help them much, nor did it really help shooters.  People were buying OGC's "cheap" ammo as fast as they could find the money to buy, then turning it around for a profit. The end result was the same for shooters -- higher prices. 

Only for OGC, they missed out on the profits they needed to pay employees and continue buying more ammo.  If you sell ammo at 3-month-ago prices, that money now has to be used to pay for the next shipment at the new prices.  They need working capital to stay in business, and raising prices now to afford more later is just business.

If you have a pressing need for that ammo right now, then grab it while you can.  if not, you can wait for things to get better. 

Nobody is being forced to buy ammo right now.

Maybe Foodland will price change up for all those gun-buyback gift certificates. 

I worked for them ages ago but I remember the manager telling me before I started to do the price change:

"Do the price increases first, then do the price reductions last......."

Yes, every once in a blue moon the price change called for price reduction on certain items.  But we were instructed to do those dead last.