Maine mass shooting (Read 21063 times)

Sodie

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #60 on: October 31, 2023, 04:58:36 PM »
If one would have a tendency want to do harm to themselves, logically, depending on the personality, it stands to figure they might also wouldn’t have any problem doing harm to others.

If such drugs are causing such tendencies you really think the companies making billions legally peddling this garbage would voluntarily divulge such statistics.

I think not.

They don’t give two shits about the real issues. Nor does government, when there is an agenda being pushed. Peon pawns will be sacrificed until the goal is met.

So you don’t know of any studies that actually show violent behavior toward others as a side effect of prescription antidepressants, and are just making a logical jump from suicidality to interpersonal violence?

macsak

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2023, 05:21:03 PM »
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7347007/

So you don’t know of any studies that actually show violent behavior toward others as a side effect of prescription antidepressants, and are just making a logical jump from suicidality to interpersonal violence?

Sodie

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #62 on: October 31, 2023, 05:35:50 PM »
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7347007/

Quote from: PubMed Study
While questions on causality remain, these results indicate that there may be an increased risk of violent crime during SSRI treatment in a small group of individuals. It may persist throughout medicated periods, across age groups, and after treatment discontinuation. Further confirmation is needed from studies with different designs, and clinical focus should be on high-risk individuals, as a majority of SSRI-users (around 97% in our cohort) will not commit violent crimes.

Super strong evidence there… from a for-profit journal.

« Last Edit: October 31, 2023, 05:41:34 PM by Sodie »

Heavies

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2023, 06:45:33 PM »
Super strong evidence there… from a for-profit journal.



Where are the studies then? If the questions will not be asked and pushed, no real data can be collected. How many of these shooters was on these drugs? What kind of detective work is it when these things happen, the extent of the investigation is what type of firearm the shooter used and what was the person’s political affiliation?

It’s utterly ridiculous. And shows that the powers that be give no care to getting down to the real cause.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #64 on: October 31, 2023, 06:48:04 PM »
Super strong evidence there… from a for-profit journal.

Quote
The main finding of the study, and the one that received the most press, was that
for both males and females between the ages of 15 and 24 only, there was a statistically
significant increase in the rate of violent crime during the period someone was taking
the medication compared to the intervals when they weren’t. The “hazard ratio” for the
15-24 age group was 1.4 which roughly translates into a 40% increased likelihood.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Sodie

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #65 on: October 31, 2023, 07:02:10 PM »


As a result of one study, whose authors even say that other studies be done using other techniques. It’s a data point, but not a particularly strong one, and fraught with “correlation vs. causation” issues.

I’m not saying that antidepressants are without risk, but I haven’t seen enough evidence to even start to form an opinion.

macsak

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2023, 07:44:08 PM »
you asked if heavies had any studies
i posted one
which you immediately dismissed

you didn't ask for a good, thorough study
you asked for a study

goalposts moved...

As a result of one study, whose authors even say that other studies be done using other techniques. It’s a data point, but not a particularly strong one, and fraught with “correlation vs. causation” issues.

I’m not saying that antidepressants are without risk, but I haven’t seen enough evidence to even start to form an opinion.

macsak

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #67 on: October 31, 2023, 07:44:58 PM »
good studies will always say this...

As a result of one study, whose authors even say that other studies be done using other techniques. It’s a data point, but not a particularly strong one, and fraught with “correlation vs. causation” issues.

I’m not saying that antidepressants are without risk, but I haven’t seen enough evidence to even start to form an opinion.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #68 on: October 31, 2023, 07:53:49 PM »
As a result of one study, whose authors even say that other studies be done using other techniques. It’s a data point, but not a particularly strong one, and fraught with “correlation vs. causation” issues.

I’m not saying that antidepressants are without risk, but I haven’t seen enough evidence to even start to form an opinion.

YOU asked for a study.  Now you say "it's only one study."  Are you serious?

Did you even bother to read my previous post?  I repeated the excerpt because it appears you ignored it completely.

BTW, unless you are a medical professional with special training in psychotropic drugs and their clinical trials, your opinions hold no water. 

YOU asked for the data.  I provided data.  Now you want to argue as if your opinion is so precious you won't even decide without some arbitrary minimum number of studies.

The people trying to ban guns include "suicides" in the category "Gun Violence."  Most statistical studies on gun violence don't differentiate between the two except as a footnote. 

You're basically arguing that suicide is not violence.  How is that even logical when the mass shooters more often than not either kill themselves right after, let the cops kill them willingly (suicide by cop) or commit suicide when they realize it's a matter of time before they are caught.  You can't logically separate the mass shooting from suicidal tendencies unless the outcome results in the shooter turning themselves in rather than be caught by LE and possibly shot.

According to the Violence Project website, 31% of mass shooters were suicidal prior to the attack, 40% became suicidal during the attack, and 59% died on the scene.

Again, separating suicidal tendencies from an increase in violent thoughts is not supported by the evidence.

Quote
Mass shootings are public spectacles of violence intended as final acts.
Whether it’s self-inflicted, or comes at the hands of police officers, or after
life in prison, a mass shooting is a form of suicide.
Traditional preventive measures like increased armed security or harsh
criminal sentences will do little to stop them.
https://www.theviolenceproject.org/key-findings/

Is it really your belief that someone with new suicidal thoughts is possibly experiencing side effects from the psychotropic drugs,
but it's not JUST AS LIKELY that someone with thoughts of mass murder or other acts of violence are also experiencing drug side effects?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2023, 09:28:38 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Wchiro

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #69 on: October 31, 2023, 08:15:15 PM »
Shooter was restricted from using or participating in live fire training and reported to local sheriff office.  So WTF happened? How was he able to come into possession of a firearm (firearm trace needed). Who dropped the ball?

zippz

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #70 on: October 31, 2023, 08:50:47 PM »
Another possibility is the person was prescribed drugs, but wasn't taking them.  A big problem with the homeless and crazies who may otherwise be fine under medication.

Overall more funding should go towards mental health.  In this case, the shooter could've been committed longer, undergo more monitoring and checkups, and go into community programs and social bonds.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #71 on: October 31, 2023, 09:35:52 PM »
Another possibility is the person was prescribed drugs, but wasn't taking them.  A big problem with the homeless and crazies who may otherwise be fine under medication.

Overall more funding should go towards mental health.  In this case, the shooter could've been committed longer, undergo more monitoring and checkups, and go into community programs and social bonds.

As you pointed out, treatment won't work unless the patient complies with the plan.

Either they really want to get better, or someone is making sure they take their meds.  Too many opt out of treatment, and often nobody else knows until it's too late.

This aspect is further evidence that anyone with a potentially dangerous mental illness should not be allowed to live unspupervised.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

hvybarrels

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #72 on: October 31, 2023, 09:46:54 PM »
The issue with all the dangerous psychiatric drugs floating around there is that many of them require a tapering off period, and if the patient stops cold turkey for whatever reason they can have the HOMICIDAL IDEATION kick in, which is actually a listed side effect on some of them.

But the Pharma Creeps don't tell parents about that when they pushing it on teenage boys

If you dissolve your enemies in acid, technically that's turning your problems into a solution.

Sodie

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2023, 06:17:05 PM »
 
you asked if heavies had any studies
i posted one
which you immediately dismissed

you didn't ask for a good, thorough study
you asked for a study

goalposts moved...

 ::)

Sodie

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #74 on: November 01, 2023, 06:22:17 PM »
YOU asked for a study.  Now you say "it's only one study."  Are you serious?

Did you even bother to read my previous post?  I repeated the excerpt because it appears you ignored it completely.

BTW, unless you are a medical professional with special training in psychotropic drugs and their clinical trials, your opinions hold no water. 

YOU asked for the data.  I provided data.  Now you want to argue as if your opinion is so precious you won't even decide without some arbitrary minimum number of studies.

The people trying to ban guns include "suicides" in the category "Gun Violence."  Most statistical studies on gun violence don't differentiate between the two except as a footnote. 

You're basically arguing that suicide is not violence.  How is that even logical when the mass shooters more often than not either kill themselves right after, let the cops kill them willingly (suicide by cop) or commit suicide when they realize it's a matter of time before they are caught.  You can't logically separate the mass shooting from suicidal tendencies unless the outcome results in the shooter turning themselves in rather than be caught by LE and possibly shot.

According to the Violence Project website, 31% of mass shooters were suicidal prior to the attack, 40% became suicidal during the attack, and 59% died on the scene.

Again, separating suicidal tendencies from an increase in violent thoughts is not supported by the evidence.
https://www.theviolenceproject.org/key-findings/

Is it really your belief that someone with new suicidal thoughts is possibly experiencing side effects from the psychotropic drugs,
but it's not JUST AS LIKELY that someone with thoughts of mass murder or other acts of violence are also experiencing drug side effects?

I am, in fact, serious.  If there were evidence of causation, you’d be able to find and link to it… more than just one study, from a for-profit journal, that didn’t make any inference of causation.

How many people who attempt or complete suicide show tendencies toward interpersonal violence prior to their suicide attempt?  That would be an interesting data point.

Yes, it really is my belief that a tendency to new suicidal ideations after taking antidepressants does not mean an equal or greater tendency to interpersonal violence after taking antidepressants.

Sodie

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #75 on: November 01, 2023, 06:24:02 PM »
The issue with all the dangerous psychiatric drugs floating around there is that many of them require a tapering off period, and if the patient stops cold turkey for whatever reason they can have the HOMICIDAL IDEATION kick in, which is actually a listed side effect on some of them.

But the Pharma Creeps don't tell parents about that when they pushing it on teenage boys



Doctors do warn about the possible risks associated with quitting psychoactive drugs cold turkey.  They also mention it in advertising.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #76 on: November 01, 2023, 07:26:35 PM »
I am, in fact, serious.  If there were evidence of causation, you’d be able to find and link to it… more than just one study, from a for-profit journal, that didn’t make any inference of causation.

How many people who attempt or complete suicide show tendencies toward interpersonal violence prior to their suicide attempt?  That would be an interesting data point.

Yes, it really is my belief that a tendency to new suicidal ideations after taking antidepressants does not mean an equal or greater tendency to interpersonal violence after taking antidepressants.

You are not serious.  If you were, you'd know I didn't post the same study as mac.

i can do the research for you, but i can't read (and understand) it for you.

That's two studies, Einstein.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #77 on: November 01, 2023, 07:29:56 PM »
so, you aren't taking this seriously
got it...


 ::)

macsak

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #78 on: November 01, 2023, 07:31:44 PM »
how come you not replying to this post with rolled eyes too?
i guess that means you don't want to admit you are wrong...

good studies will always say this...

hvybarrels

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #79 on: November 01, 2023, 09:01:22 PM »
Doctors do warn about the possible risks associated with quitting psychoactive drugs cold turkey.  They also mention it in advertising.

They aren't telling them about the possible side effects include mass murder
Not even close to informed consent.
If you dissolve your enemies in acid, technically that's turning your problems into a solution.