consensus

lul.

I prefer a flat trigger. feels like I can get better leverage with it, slightly

for women, I take what I can get 

It's 100% subjective, a personal preference.  But Mr Objective hasn't deemed it so -- therefore he needs to discuss the "science."

So you are certain that if 100 shooters were provided with identical firearms and shoot with flat triggers and then with curved triggers ((or vice versa) that the results would be equal?

I like science. If you have a problem with me looking at interesting questions through a scientific lens then you can suck it, at a vacuum pressure of your preference.

So you are certain that if 100 shooters were provided with identical firearms and shoot with flat triggers and then with curved triggers ((or vice versa) that the results would be equal?

I like science. If you have a problem with me looking at interesting questions through a scientific lens then you can suck it, at a vacuum pressure of your preference.

Are you saying such a study exists?

How can you argue about scientific results that haven't been reported .. or collected?

It's pure speculation to say people who prefer one trigger might shoot better with a different one.  If they shoot better, then most likely their preference would change, so 99% of the time, personal preference and performance will align.

i stand by my statement -- a DIRECT statement -- that it's subjective personal preference. 

What makes one person shoot better with one trigger than with another, but the next person has the opposite results?  I'll go out on a limb and say there are many reasons -- familiarity (used to one more than the other), length of the fingers, distance between finger joints, ergonomics of the trigger design is better for one person more so than the next, etc, etc.

Put a person in a manual transmission car, and they probably do better with an automatic.  But, given time behind the wheel, they might be able to drive a stick better than they can an automatic while racing or driving a semi or bus. 

There's no science involved, just common sense.

"Trust the science!!!"  [sarcasm\] mostly inspired from Mr. Tourettes. . .

Rather, I say/think trust but verify.  Do many experiments for myself and regularly revisit.  For firearms, there's a bit aspect of personal preference.  However, there are basic mechanical differences to consider.  Like trigger mechanism.  Someone noted leverage above, which would (or could) matter more on triggers where there is a pivot point and how the sear is engaged/released.  A flat trigger for 1911 would be different than say an AR trigger operation. 

Overall, I think one can't eliminate the human factor in trigger manipulation, no matter how you grip the firearm.  Thinking back to the thumb in/out thread. There are a number of videos on that, including one that used to frequent this board to now many precision rifle shooters.  One who advocates finger flat from second knuckle.  I've tried that, but my hand and grip combinations don't allow that.  Even with different grip panels on my bolt action rifles, I "fall short"    I could try different chassis/stocks, but not at this time.  While I think personal preference definitely plays a huge factor, the shooter is often the worst "enemy". . .

Are you saying such a study exists?

How can you argue about scientific results that haven't been reported .. or collected?

It's pure speculation to say people who prefer one trigger might shoot better with a different one.  If they shoot better, then most likely their preference would change, so 99% of the time, personal preference and performance will align.

i stand by my statement -- a DIRECT statement -- that it's subjective personal preference. 

What makes one person shoot better with one trigger than with another, but the next person has the opposite results?  I'll go out on a limb and say there are many reasons -- familiarity (used to one more than the other), length of the fingers, distance between finger joints, ergonomics of the trigger design is better for one person more so than the next, etc, etc.

Put a person in a manual transmission car, and they probably do better with an automatic.  But, given time behind the wheel, they might be able to drive a stick better than they can an automatic while racing or driving a semi or bus. 

There's no science involved, just common sense.

Not saying such a study exists. I was saying that you could use scientific principles to design a study which would answer the question of whether there was a superior trigger. Maybe the results would show one superior, maybe they wouldn't. Maybe they would show one superior but only in certain situations or groups. To be clear I am talking about on average, obviously not everyone is going to fall cleanly into one or the other.

Rather, I say/think trust but verify.  Do many experiments for myself and regularly revisit.  For firearms, there's a bit aspect of personal preference.  However, there are basic mechanical differences to consider.  Like trigger mechanism.  Someone noted leverage above, which would (or could) matter more on triggers where there is a pivot point and how the sear is engaged/released.  A flat trigger for 1911 would be different than say an AR trigger operation. 

That is the type of thing I was getting at. The differences are small, if any, I would suspect, but possible.

Not saying such a study exists. I was saying that you could use scientific principles to design a study which would answer the question of whether there was a superior trigger. Maybe the results would show one superior, maybe they wouldn't. Maybe they would show one superior but only in certain situations or groups. To be clear I am talking about on average, obviously not everyone is going to fall cleanly into one or the other.

So, it's all a theory you imagined -- nothing that is based on reality.

Gotcha.

archimedes is rolling in his grave right now

archimedes is rolling in his grave right now

They had no triggers in ~210 BC.

So, it's all a theory you imagined -- nothing that is based on reality.

Gotcha.

I never gave any theories.

#objective

Not saying such a study exists. I was saying that you could use scientific principles to design a study which would answer the question of whether there was a superior trigger. Maybe the results would show one superior, maybe they wouldn't. Maybe they would show one superior but only in certain situations or groups. To be clear I am talking about on average, obviously not everyone is going to fall cleanly into one or the other.

some people try so hard to sound academic but fall flat on their face....

some people try so hard to sound academic but fall flat on their face....

Not trying to sound academic. Just pointing out science could be used to try to answer the question.

you can measure lock time, weight on 1st and 2nd stage on a trigger. How does one measure "feel"?

you can measure lock time, weight on 1st and 2nd stage on a trigger. How does one measure "feel"?

#objective

you can measure lock time, weight on 1st and 2nd stage on a trigger. How does one measure "feel"?

I think the word feel would be too subjective to be a good way to measure.

I think groupings under timed shooting would be a better thing to measure.

I think the word feel would be too subjective to be a good way to measure.

I think groupings under timed shooting would be a better thing to measure.

#subjective

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

#subjective

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

In science, one must seek to eliminate, mitigate or isolate variables.  Adding a timed element to a test only introduces more complexity to it, meaning you can't know if the test ONLY measured the trigger, or the individual's various results influenced by the introduction of a time factor.

The only way to be truly scientific is to eliminate the human factor -- i.e. use a mechanical device to pull the trigger.  If the results are the same for both triggers, then it brings me back to what I said all along:  the results are 100% subjective.  That subjectivity lies in the abilities, skills, experience, and consistency of the shooter.

You'd be testing the shooter, not the trigger.