Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge (Read 13666 times)

Brystont1

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2023, 09:11:00 PM »
If I were to hazard a guess, it sounds like they got all the guns they could find, but he had more registered in his name.

Maybe he jerked them around by saying he sold one/some, just to have enough time to finish things with the wife?

Speculation, but it shows how easy that would be.  If they knew he had more than they could find, why was he not arrested for .... something?

So basically not only is the law unconstitutional it’s also executed like shit.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2023, 09:13:41 PM »
So basically not only is the law unconstitutional it’s also executed like shit.

it's being executed as designed.

Basically, only the law-abiding gun owners get punished for not following the process -- the ones who would comply with a TRO and hand in all their registered guns. 

Criminals who obstruct and lie to LE get away with murder .....

or at least get away with keeping guns in defiance of a court order until they commit the murder.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2023, 07:33:55 AM »
If I were to hazard a guess, it sounds like they got all the guns they could find, but he had more registered in his name.

Maybe he jerked them around by saying he sold one/some, just to have enough time to finish things with the wife?

Speculation, but it shows how easy that would be.  If they knew he had more than they could find, why was he not arrested for .... something?

As I read through more comments, i realized the "something" they could have arrested him for might have been:

Obstruction -- if he lied about the location of his guns.  That requires suspicion that he's lying, such as lack of evidence he lost/sold the missing gun/s,

Criminal contempt of court -- defying the court's confiscation order signed by a judge.

Prohibited person in possession of a firearm -- existing domestic abuse allegations and the TRO put him in that category.  If he has a registered firearm which is unaccounted for, it ought to be assumed he still has it unless his story can be verified by contacting whoever does have it.  Cops should appreciate this, since it might lead them to someone with an unregistered gun.  Easy gun violation solved.

This case demonstrates what I've been saying all along about red flag laws.  Just issuing an order and confiscating guns is not enough.  If the individual is dangerous enough to require the person surrender their firearms, then they ought to be considered dangerous enough to lock up for a short time while their mental state is evaluated.

Leave the guns.  Take the threat off the street.  But, only after the respondent gets his hearing in front of a judge. 

I believe if the courts and police have the time to issue a TRO and a gun seizure order, plus the time it takes to show up and take the guns, then they have sufficient time to hold an immediate hearing with the respondent before all that.  It might possibly put a stop to all that if there's evidence the complainant is lying -- texts, recorded messages, emails, witnesses, etc.

In my mind, the only thing gun confiscation does is make an already angry person angrier.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

ren

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2023, 08:45:04 AM »
does the TRO allow authorities to search for firearms?
Deeds Not Words

ren

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2023, 08:52:07 AM »
https://www.khon2.com/hawaii-crime/hpd-investigating-shooting-in-pearlridge-area/

The initial TRO was filed Dec. 8 and on Dec. 11 officers with the Specialized Services Division served the suspect with the order.

At that time, SSD officers said they recovered all five of the suspect’s registered firearms.
Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2023, 08:54:19 AM »
does the TRO allow authorities to search for firearms?

Normally the TRO has to be served in person, and guns will be collected at that time.  If any are missing, and there's suspicion the person is lying, then LE may need to get a separate search warrant while they sit outside.

As I said, if HPD files say 3 guns, and he only surrenders 2, that should be enough for a warrant (prohibited person with a gun) unless he shows evidence of who has it.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

zippz

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2023, 08:56:16 AM »
does the TRO allow authorities to search for firearms?

officers can take any guns in plain sight when serving the TRO, otherwise they will get a search warrant to search for the guns.  Search warrant us easy to get with the TRO and knowledge on gun registrations.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2023, 08:56:58 AM »
https://www.khon2.com/hawaii-crime/hpd-investigating-shooting-in-pearlridge-area/

The initial TRO was filed Dec. 8 and on Dec. 11 officers with the Specialized Services Division served the suspect with the order.

At that time, SSD officers said they recovered all five of the suspect’s registered firearms.


Don't you love how the facts trickle out like molasses on a cold Winter's day?

If he turned in all his registered guns, then that proves 100% that red flag laws won't protect anyone.

Or, from an objective viewpoint, maybe we just need better laws to find out the unique motivations behind domestic abuse and how to prevent it.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

QUIETShooter

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2023, 09:14:48 AM »
I know long guns acquired prior to 1995(?) are not required to be registered. 

But what about handguns?  All I know is that as long as I can remember handguns needed to be registered.

Did he by any chance have a handgun that was "grandfathered" prior to being mandatory registered?

Or maybe he just got it illegally.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

QUIETShooter

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2023, 09:37:14 AM »
https://www.khon2.com/hawaii-crime/hpd-investigating-shooting-in-pearlridge-area/

The initial TRO was filed Dec. 8 and on Dec. 11 officers with the Specialized Services Division served the suspect with the order.

At that time, SSD officers said they recovered all five of the suspect's registered firearms.


Oh?  The story changed now.  Frome "some" to "all".  Whether true or not, whatever. ::)

But it does change how HPD performed their job.  If they had information as to how many weapons the man has and recovered all of them, then they did their job to the fullest extent.

Originally when the story said they recovered "some" of the man's firearms, one would think they need to do more than just go back to the precinct to tell the captain they found "some".

Common sense. ::)

If the man could not provide information or evidence that the rest of his firearms are accounted for, then in my opinion that alone would be reason to detain him to protect that woman.

Those unaccounted firearms just might be the tipping point of the man killing himself or the woman.
So, it's interesting to me that now the story changed from "some" to "all".

That woman might still be alive today to celebrate Christmas with her family.

A sad story to remind everyone that thinks the Police or a piece of paper like a TRO is going to protect them.  It won't.

Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

ren

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2023, 09:44:43 AM »
<standing in line for the ghost gun show> and moar laws
Deeds Not Words

Wchiro

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2023, 12:16:00 PM »
I heard the guy was involved.in some bad stuff so no CCW.

someone here is going to advocate for moar redder flag laws...despite an already served TRO and firearms taken away...maybe we need a blaze orange flag law

In this case if the husband was involved in some bad stuff would it be safe to assume that he should have been prohibited from having firearms?  TRO's do not work for the criminally minded, hot tempered/aggressive(Bully), alcoholics, drugged or mentally disturbed.  IMO HPD should have locked up this guy if he showed hostility (until he is given a personality/mental assessment) when served the TRO, being that the TRO stated that she was threatened with death.


 

QUIETShooter

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2023, 12:51:15 PM »
Time and time again society fails to address mental illness and the result time and time again is dead people.

Is it true that the reason the mentally ill are not incarcerated in hospitals or institutions is because of their civil rights?  Is this the reason we have the homeless problem we have today?  A lot of the homeless refuse help.

So what about the civil rights of the victims?
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

ren

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2023, 01:23:55 PM »
all these solution involve the government in some way which I think is not the answer. How about empowering the victim? She got a TRO - the courts should have fast tracked her on getting a CCW...or a big dog
Deeds Not Words

ren

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2023, 01:35:11 PM »
https://www.khon2.com/hawaii-crime/hpd-investigating-shooting-in-pearlridge-area/

Theresa’s family said she filed a temporary restraining order on her husband which was finalized this week and includes a mandate that he surrender any firearms.

“If the system could be fixed, that man could have been in jail and my mom wouldn’t have been killed and we would be eating breakfast over there. But no, it’s a corrupt system that’s all I know. If that can be fixed that would help our community and Hawaii,” he added.
Deeds Not Words

groveler

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2023, 01:44:28 PM »
Don't you love how the facts trickle out like molasses on a cold Winter's day?

If he turned in all his registered guns, then that proves 100% that red flag laws won't protect anyone.

Or, from an objective viewpoint, maybe we just need better laws to find out the unique motivations behind domestic abuse and how to prevent it.
"from an objective viewpoint, maybe we just need better laws to find out the unique motivations behind domestic abuse and how to prevent it."
There is THE problem, "better laws".  Y'all cannot legislate better behavior especially when the people making those laws are all idiots.
aka Hawaii legislators.
It is a cultural thing that starts at birth and how you are emotionally formed as you grow to adulthood.
Things like "girls just want to have fun", fine, I'm not subsidizing your bad choices or your murder of your products of your "Fun".
Y'all live with it. That is not the Democrat way.
Guys should understand that with DNA tests they get to pay even if she is fu$king some other guy that is beating your kid.
Maybe commitment wil come back int fashion and kids will have two parents again. Even bad parents are better than single mothers.
I'm a hanai great uncle to two kids,  one taunts the other" I know my dad's name do you know yours?"  they are 6 and 8 respectively.
Democrat laws are Schiff!
I don't have a solution, but I have a first step.
Every woman that is single and wants an abortion must be sterilized.
Every single woman who has kids, is on welfare and gets pregnant gets sterilized if she wants any more welfare.

Women are the key to family stability.   Don't put out if you cant get a husband to pay for the kids.

With men they need to pay dearly for unprovoked assault and need to be held responsible for their sexual escapades
You made a baby you help raise it, you want to leave that to someone else that is your decision but you will pay.
This thing where divorced women demand child support, your house and bank accounts after divorce and then gets a new boyfriend who lives in the house you paid for, stops.
If she has a boy friend he gets to help support the kids and Dad gets a 50 % break. she makes boyfriend pay.
Make it so she doesn't want a divorce just because she is tired of a boring marriage life.
Marriage is for making and raising kids. Y'all do't want to be married, don't make any kids.
We have the technology today to destroy most all of the he said, she said crap.

More laws my a$$

Full disclosure;  My mother had four husbands. My step mother had two. I have two "half"
siblings and 4 step siblings. 
« Last Edit: December 23, 2023, 01:49:32 PM by groveler »

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2023, 04:31:49 PM »
"from an objective viewpoint, maybe we just need better laws to find out the unique motivations behind domestic abuse and how to prevent it."
There is THE problem, "better laws".  Y'all cannot legislate better behavior especially when the people making those laws are all idiots.
aka Hawaii legislators.
It is a cultural thing that starts at birth and how you are emotionally formed as you grow to adulthood.
Things like "girls just want to have fun", fine, I'm not subsidizing your bad choices or your murder of your products of your "Fun".
Y'all live with it. That is not the Democrat way.
Guys should understand that with DNA tests they get to pay even if she is fu$king some other guy that is beating your kid.
Maybe commitment wil come back int fashion and kids will have two parents again. Even bad parents are better than single mothers.
I'm a hanai great uncle to two kids,  one taunts the other" I know my dad's name do you know yours?"  they are 6 and 8 respectively.
Democrat laws are Schiff!
I don't have a solution, but I have a first step.
Every woman that is single and wants an abortion must be sterilized.
Every single woman who has kids, is on welfare and gets pregnant gets sterilized if she wants any more welfare.

Women are the key to family stability.   Don't put out if you cant get a husband to pay for the kids.

With men they need to pay dearly for unprovoked assault and need to be held responsible for their sexual escapades
You made a baby you help raise it, you want to leave that to someone else that is your decision but you will pay.
This thing where divorced women demand child support, your house and bank accounts after divorce and then gets a new boyfriend who lives in the house you paid for, stops.
If she has a boy friend he gets to help support the kids and Dad gets a 50 % break. she makes boyfriend pay.
Make it so she doesn't want a divorce just because she is tired of a boring marriage life.
Marriage is for making and raising kids. Y'all do't want to be married, don't make any kids.
We have the technology today to destroy most all of the he said, she said crap.

More laws my a$$

Full disclosure;  My mother had four husbands. My step mother had two. I have two "half"
siblings and 4 step siblings.


The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2023, 04:35:56 PM »
In this case if the husband was involved in some bad stuff would it be safe to assume that he should have been prohibited from having firearms?  TRO's do not work for the criminally minded, hot tempered/aggressive(Bully), alcoholics, drugged or mentally disturbed.  IMO HPD should have locked up this guy if he showed hostility (until he is given a personality/mental assessment) when served the TRO, being that the TRO stated that she was threatened with death.

Depends on when he was involved in the bad stuff (after he acquired the guns?), and whether or not the "system" is aware of said invovlement.

If he's luck y enough to not get caught, then the background check would have come up clean.

Some 'bad stuff" isn't bad enough to deny you your 2A rights, so as i said -- it all depends.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

groveler

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2023, 05:26:13 PM »


I understand "heads"

what does "swoosh' mean to us?

Sodie

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2023, 06:16:22 PM »
I understand "heads"

what does "swoosh' mean to us?

I believe that’s a reference to the sound made as a concept or reference goes right over your head…