https://beatofhawaii.com/las-vegas-hotels-bet-wrong-hawaii-still-packed/

My thoughts.

I think people have been spoiled on how Vegas always took care of them. Free parking, no resort fees, easy to get free meals, etc...Then 1 by 1, the casinos removed the perks of gambling there. Compare this to HI that doesn't' have any of the above. My friend was at the Hilton and paid $70/day for parking recently.

So people aren't' inclined to not come to HI due to the additional fees.  But it shows, instead of going to Vegas, maybe all the fees added up and they rather come to HI to enjoy the beach and nature.  Most states have a casino, so they can just gamble at their home casino.  So Vegas gambling isn't anything special. Only HI and UT have zero casinos and zero forms of gambling (lotto, bingo, etc...).

I wonder how many first time tourists are disappointed with Waikiki.  In my opinion that place is filthy, ugly, and a 100% tourist rip-off trap.

Other tourist destinations on Oahu are not far behind.

Vegas is ugly too, in my opinion.  I go because of gambling, buffets, graveyard specials, 24 hr. cafes, and at one time, for the shows.

All of the things I mentioned above are under attack; soon to be history, overpriced, and no longer enjoyable.

With that being said, I have a trip in the books for the end of the year.  I will do my best to be fair and objective to see if I would deem it worthwhile to return for future trips.

Since retiring, at one time I had the option to go anywhere anytime I wanted.  Now with grandkid babysitting, I'm down to one window of opportunity a year.

If Vegas disappoints then it's off to another place.  Japan, Korea, and Okinawa interests me.

I wonder how many first time tourists are disappointed with Waikiki.  In my opinion that place is filthy, ugly, and a 100% tourist rip-off trap.

Other tourist destinations on Oahu are not far behind.

Vegas is ugly too, in my opinion.  I go because of gambling, buffets, graveyard specials, 24 hr. cafes, and at one time, for the shows.

All of the things I mentioned above are under attack; soon to be history, overpriced, and no longer enjoyable.

With that being said, I have a trip in the books for the end of the year.  I will do my best to be fair and objective to see if I would deem it worthwhile to return for future trips.

Since retiring, at one time I had the option to go anywhere anytime I wanted.  Now with grandkid babysitting, I'm down to one window of opportunity a year.

If Vegas disappoints then it's off to another place.  Japan, Korea, and Okinawa interests me.

Yep.  I tell new Vegas visitors to arrive after dark on their first day if possible.  The magic is totally destroyed in the daytime.

I wonder how many first time tourists are disappointed with Waikiki.  In my opinion that place is filthy, ugly, and a 100% tourist rip-off trap.

Other tourist destinations on Oahu are not far behind.

Vegas is ugly too, in my opinion.  I go because of gambling, buffets, graveyard specials, 24 hr. cafes, and at one time, for the shows.

All of the things I mentioned above are under attack; soon to be history, overpriced, and no longer enjoyable.

With that being said, I have a trip in the books for the end of the year.  I will do my best to be fair and objective to see if I would deem it worthwhile to return for future trips.

Since retiring, at one time I had the option to go anywhere anytime I wanted.  Now with grandkid babysitting, I'm down to one window of opportunity a year.

If Vegas disappoints then it's off to another place.  Japan, Korea, and Okinawa interests me.

My neigbor was a travel agent and told me that people come here cause they don't need a passport. There are nicer beaches in Tahiti and like places, but you need a passport. Hawaii is the only place in the US with nice beaches like we have for a "tropical getaway".  The same goes with conferences and corporations rewarding employees with a trip.

This is the perfect opportunity to take advantage of the Vegas situation - legalize gambling in Hawaii. Of course, our political cronies are still in the diminishing bags of Vegas lobbyists. I hope that they see the bag will eventually disappear.
Or perhaps those Vegas casinos will make a push to move here....
I wonder if there are as many illegal gambling busts/raids in the neighbor islands as there are on Oahu. I don't read often about illegal gambling busts on neighbor islands.

On the various FB groups that I'm in about Vegas, there are more and more people posting pics of an empty Vegas.  But some are getting caught as the timing was during a slow time like at 2am in front the Wynn or in front Resorts World street entrance, which has always had little to no foot traffic (by Mischos Tacos).

So in all, I will make this statement based on my XP of going a a few times a year for many years. Vegas is much slower than it used to be precovid. At any time and day of the week, the strip would be shoulder to shoulder of people walking.  Pecovid, restaurants/casinos never fired staff as often as they're doing now.  Casinos haven't replaced table games with electronic dealers, nor have I seen no craps table open at various casinos, Fremont Casino with only 1 person playing craps, etc...

So unless you've gone precovid, you have no idea what Vegas used to be like, which is what it seems like the people posting these "empty" pics are 1st timers or only gone post covid.

Vegas isn't what it used to be and we need to adjust to what the "new normal" is.  Old Vegas is dead and won't come back.

I remember my wife and I on one trip was riding the monorail and that thing snakes through the properties as it makes it's way up and down the strip.

This was a summertime trip and when the monorail passed the pools of the Flamingo you can see what seems like millions of day partiers, standing, dancing, and peeing shoulder to shoulder in the pools.  Millions others on lounge chairs, at poolside bars, and in cabanas.  The pool scenes were vibrant, the music pumping, the crowds all red faced, drunk, with shit-grins, the pool water turning a mysterious greenish hue.......

Anyway, what I'm getting at is these people are the mid-tier type of visitors.  The so-called bread and butter revenue source that would keep the lights on, the AC running, and the pool scene profitable.

If the bean counters truly crunched the numbers and claim they can rely on the 10% or less that are considered "Whales", without the mid tier visitors, it seems like a large portion of the revenue the whales bring will now have to go to upkeep those pools, slot machines, and empty food halls that most likely will be ghost towns now.

I've said it many times before.  I don't understand how this can be sustainable but I'm not the expert.  Hotels laying off employees, restaurants laying off workers, dealers with no jobs, etc. will equal no ability to keep house mortgage payments, pay for food, medical, transportation.

People will start migrating to where there are jobs.  Laughlin?  Reno?  Out of state?

This could snowball even into the local casino business.  A lot of the locals that patronize local casinos are employees of the Strip and Downtown properties.  No job.  No patronage.  Bye bye local casinos.

Lets face it.  The majority of people working in Las Vegas work in the hospitality industry.  If not that the construction industry that services that sector.  Weaken the foundation of these two contributors to the Vegas economy and you can see a collapse and a mass exodus from a once vibrant and thriving city.

[snip]
I've said it many times before.  I don't understand how this can be sustainable but I'm not the expert.  Hotels laying off employees, restaurants laying off workers, dealers with no jobs, etc. will equal no ability to keep house mortgage payments, pay for food, medical, transportation.

People will start migrating to where there are jobs.  Laughlin?  Reno?  Out of state?

This could snowball even into the local casino business.  A lot of the locals that patronize local casinos are employees of the Strip and Downtown properties.  No job.  No patronage.  Bye bye local casinos.

Lets face it.  The majority of people working in Las Vegas work in the hospitality industry.  If not that the construction industry that services that sector.  Weaken the foundation of these two contributors to the Vegas economy and you can see a collapse and a mass exodus from a once vibrant and thriving city.

There's another aspect that isn't talked about very often. These numbers are from 2021, but they seem to be inline with previous years I've read about.

The Nevada Constitution prohibits levying of personal income tax.

General sales tax is the second biggest pot of money for states, making up 32.2% of state revenue on average.

Nevada is ranked fifth in reliance on general sales tax. General sales tax made up 58% of tax revenue in 2019.

Nevada ranked eighth on its reliance on selective sales tax, which includes the live entertainment tax and insurance premiums tax. Selective sales tax made up 22.4% of Nevada’s tax revenue in fiscal year 2020.

Only 3.7% of Nevada’s overall tax revenue stems from property tax. That’s above the national average of 1.8%.

Nevada is one of five states that does not have a corporate income tax. (Ohio, Texas, Washington and Wyoming are the other four.) Corporate income tax ranged from 0.6% of a state’s revenue (in Hawaii) to 27.3% in New Hampshire.

In other words, all the money needed to build and maintain roads, provide emergency services, and all the other things the state provides most take for granted will see a decline in funding as the economy and visitor numbers there worsen,

When 58% of revenue coming from general sales taxes drop to lower levels, you'll see property and other tax rates go up to make up for the shortfall.

In 2023, Nevada casinos contributed $59.6 billion to the state’s economy, supported more than 330,000 jobs and generated $8 billion in tax revenue.  That tax revenue is what pays for most of the schools and other services in NV.  Without a personal income tax, the businesses have to kick in more.  So, when that resort fee and parking fee hits your wallet, remember the casinos have to pay tax on all of that in order to keep government-funded services alive.

I remember my wife and I on one trip was riding the monorail and that thing snakes through the properties as it makes it's way up and down the strip.

This was a summertime trip and when the monorail passed the pools of the Flamingo you can see what seems like millions of day partiers, standing, dancing, and peeing shoulder to shoulder in the pools.  Millions others on lounge chairs, at poolside bars, and in cabanas.  The pool scenes were vibrant, the music pumping, the crowds all red faced, drunk, with shit-grins, the pool water turning a mysterious greenish hue.......

Anyway, what I'm getting at is these people are the mid-tier type of visitors.  The so-called bread and butter revenue source that would keep the lights on, the AC running, and the pool scene profitable.

If the bean counters truly crunched the numbers and claim they can rely on the 10% or less that are considered "Whales", without the mid tier visitors, it seems like a large portion of the revenue the whales bring will now have to go to upkeep those pools, slot machines, and empty food halls that most likely will be ghost towns now.

I've said it many times before.  I don't understand how this can be sustainable but I'm not the expert.  Hotels laying off employees, restaurants laying off workers, dealers with no jobs, etc. will equal no ability to keep house mortgage payments, pay for food, medical, transportation.

People will start migrating to where there are jobs.  Laughlin?  Reno?  Out of state?

This could snowball even into the local casino business.  A lot of the locals that patronize local casinos are employees of the Strip and Downtown properties.  No job.  No patronage.  Bye bye local casinos.

Lets face it.  The majority of people working in Las Vegas work in the hospitality industry.  If not that the construction industry that services that sector.  Weaken the foundation of these two contributors to the Vegas economy and you can see a collapse and a mass exodus from a once vibrant and thriving city.

My sister in law used to work for a happening club that turns into a pool party in the summer. Precovid tips were $700 on average.  Post covid $45.  Precovid, they would sell out of the $40,000 tables everytime. Post covid, they didn't and some nights zero.  So they had to give the tables away.

The issue with giving the tables away, these people dont' tip based off the price of the $40K table. So they tip much less.

Table prices have been reduced a lot from $40,000 to about $4,000.  This is for Omnia at Caesers.  I had a friend go who hasnt' been since precovid last week.  He was shocked it was so cheap, so they bought 2 tables.

Lots of people in the industry being laid off. Treasure Island is expected to lay off more in about a week (rumor).

I heard an intersting story. Since the casinos are almost all hedge fund, corporate type running them. They used tech guys to see how to maximize profit.  And these guys who many haven't been to Vegas don't understand how to treat people. They're just math focused.  Which would explain why the hospitality has gone down big time in Vegas.

Whales lose a lot gaming and don't spend much at all the other things. Which is why everything is down. Restaurants, casual eats, activities, etc...

Since Vegas is tourism dependant, the employees need to ride out the low times. Many won't change industry.  The new fad is once the bottle girls age out, they get into real estate. Years ago it was esthetician industry.  These are the ones who didn't find their rich husbands while they were a bottle girl.

Palazzo/Venetian let go 50 employees today.  There was no chatter about this prior to.  From what I've seen compared to other casinos, their gaming floor is 1 of the busiest.  They cater to middle income and above. $15 tables in the day is automatic. $15 at night is more often than not.  ANd for a higher end place, this is very rare.  It's been like this since precovid, so they havent' changed at all their table min bets in over a decade.

What I have seen though is the let it ride table isn't open as often as it used to be.  But you can always walk next door to Harrahs as they have it open all the time.  We were there on Memorial Day weekend and they had $5 LIR on the Sunday prior to.

Palazzo/Venetian let go 50 employees today.  There was no chatter about this prior to.  From what I've seen compared to other casinos, their gaming floor is 1 of the busiest.  They cater to middle income and above. $15 tables in the day is automatic. $15 at night is more often than not.  ANd for a higher end place, this is very rare.  It's been like this since precovid, so they havent' changed at all their table min bets in over a decade.

What I have seen though is the let it ride table isn't open as often as it used to be.  But you can always walk next door to Harrahs as they have it open all the time.  We were there on Memorial Day weekend and they had $5 LIR on the Sunday prior to.

You'd have to drill down before drawing any conclusions.

How many, if any, of the 50 fired worked in casino operations?  How many from management?  Housekeeping?  Maintenance?  Restaurants?  So many jobs that keep a casino/hotel operating.

Given the current ICE environment, it's also reasonable to wonder how many of the 50 were "undocumented."  Laws prohibiting the hiring of illegals could be receiving stricter enforcement now than in previous years.  Letting the obvious illegals go might be a preemptive move against heavy fines and other penalties.

Of course, the casino isn't about to confess to hiring, and then firing, 50 illegals they knew were not supposed to be in the US.  So, we may never know.

You'd have to drill down before drawing any conclusions.

How many, if any, of the 50 fired worked in casino operations?  How many from management?  Housekeeping?  Maintenance?  Restaurants?  So many jobs that keep a casino/hotel operating.

Given the current ICE environment, it's also reasonable to wonder how many of the 50 were "undocumented."  Laws prohibiting the hiring of illegals could be receiving stricter enforcement now than in previous years.  Letting the obvious illegals go might be a preemptive move against heavy fines and other penalties.

Of course, the casino isn't about to confess to hiring, and then firing, 50 illegals they knew were not supposed to be in the US.  So, we may never know.

Def not any restaurants are they're all independently owned.

Def not any restaurants are they're all independently owned.

I'm not sure why the ownership status is relevant.

Do you have the position titles/descriptions for the 50 employees who were let go?

I'm not sure why the ownership status is relevant.

Do you have the position titles/descriptions for the 50 employees who were let go?

The restaurants do not fall under casino staffing. The exceptions would be certain bars like the circle bar at Venetian.  Basically casino name tag and uniform.  Tao in the Venetian let a bunch go months ago and it stated "Tao laid off workers".  But it was really "Tao Group" as they laid people off not only at the restaurant and day club in the Venetian, but other locations as well.

More info is that it's mostly upper management.  My friend works casino credit and that entire department is safe so far.

The restaurants do not fall under casino staffing. The exceptions would be certain bars like the circle bar at Venetian.  Basically casino name tag and uniform.  Tao in the Venetian let a bunch go months ago and it stated "Tao laid off workers".  But it was really "Tao Group" as they laid people off not only at the restaurant and day club in the Venetian, but other locations as well.

More info is that it's mostly upper management.  My friend works casino credit and that entire department is safe so far.

Yeah, I suspected management for the most part was in the 50 fired.  That's a very small number when talking "downsizing" which normally involves a large percentage of employees across the board in an attempt to boost profits and/or stock prices.

Another thing to factor in -- the Sands sold the Venetian to Apollo Global Management and VICI properties in 2022.  VICI Properties: Owns the real estate assets ($4 billion), and Apollo Global Management: Manages operations and gaming ($2.25 billion).  This encompasses The Venetian Resort, The Palazzo Tower, The Venetian Expo & Convention Center, and the MSG Sphere (partnership).

Since the acquisition, the new owners began room renovations, restaurant concept updates, gaming floor modernizations, and sustainability innovations. 

https://www.nyse.com/quote/XNYS:APO

https://www.nyse.com/quote/XNYS:VICI

Anyway, the Venetian continues to undergo changes that began after 2022.  So, I'm reluctant to tie the firing of 50 employees to any one cause such as a decline in revenue.  These things are bound to happen after a change of ownership where operational jobs might be merged under the new owner's existing personnel.