What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh (Read 113110 times)

changemyoil66

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #280 on: January 13, 2025, 02:06:26 PM »
I don't think NV passed any new gun laws for 2025.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #281 on: January 13, 2025, 02:47:10 PM »
For craps, it's have enough bankroll for 10 shooters. So depending on your strategy, is what your bankroll would be. Example: I play the inside place bets on a $15 table. So my bankroll should be $660 ($66x10).
Craps is a lot more complicated since there are a variety of minimum bet amounts all over the layout.  It also varies depending on come out roll versus established point and whether you bet "with" or "against" the dice. 

If you don't count the come out rolls, then your common place bets are easier to calculate.  The number of come out rolls varies depending on whether 7 or 11 are rolled.

Since i do come bets, I set a max of 3 working come bets with odds.  I can calculate that given the table minimum.  I will also play the odds bet on the pass line. 

Basically, my craps bankroll is $200 to start no matter what the table limit.  Depending on the flow, i may buy in for another $200.  I have yet to play a TLS table, so I'd have to figure those bets, too.  I have a tendency to roll every number on the die which is why I limit my working come bets.  Too many times I get a come bet on every number on the board then seven out.  It happens so often, if i've been winning and allow the come bets to cover all the numbers, I'll make a bet on Any 7 during a mid-roll come out toss to keep from losing all those working bets.  If I forget, at least the odds portion of those come bets are returned -- only the original come bet is working on the come out.

Yeah.  It gets complicated.  So for craps, i think a max session bankroll is up to whatever you're comfortable losing.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #282 on: January 13, 2025, 02:51:22 PM »
Craps is a lot more complicated since there are a variety of minimum bet amounts all over the layout.  It also varies depending on come out roll versus established point and whether you bet "with" or "against" the dice. 

If you don't count the come out rolls, then your common place bets are easier to calculate.  The number of come out rolls varies depending on whether 7 or 11 are rolled.

Since i do come bets, I set a max of 3 working come bets with odds.  I can calculate that given the table minimum.  I will also play the odds bet on the pass line. 

Basically, my craps bankroll is $200 to start no matter what the table limit.  Depending on the flow, i may buy in for another $200.  I have yet to play a TLS table, so I'd have to figure those bets, too.  I have a tendency to roll every number on the die which is why I limit my working come bets.  Too many times I get a come bet on every number on the board then seven out.  It happens so often, if i've been winning and allow the come bets to cover all the numbers, I'll make a bet on Any 7 during a mid-roll come out toss to keep from losing all those working bets.  If I forget, at least the odds portion of those come bets are returned -- only the original come bet is working on the come out.

Yeah.  It gets complicated.  So for craps, i think a max session bankroll is up to whatever you're comfortable losing.

What's TLS?

I've always thought about working my place bets on the come out, but don't want to be mad when everyones cheering cause a 7 came out.  Feelings over math.  But when I will play crapless, I will be working my place bets.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #283 on: January 13, 2025, 02:56:24 PM »
What's TLS?

I've always thought about working my place bets on the come out, but don't want to be mad when everyones cheering cause a 7 came out.  Feelings over math.  But when I will play crapless, I will be working my place bets.

I meant TAS -- Tall -- All -- Small.  I tried to avoid saying TSA!   :rofl:

Too many Ls in the name.  confused me!

I never cheer when 7 rolls and i win a small rebate on the come layout.  I probably lost more than that on the pass line alone.

Sometimes, if the dice seem to be rolling each number twice before 7, I'll place the inside numbers and a come bet.  If the come bet moves to a placed number, I use those winnings to make the odds bet in it -- down with odds.  If the dice aren't seven-ing out too soon, the place bets feeding the extra come bet odds works nicely.  Then, if the same number cycles many times, the come bet makes more and more since the odds pay higher than the 1:1 base come bet.

There's a method to taking advantage of come bets and protecting them from come out rolls. Not difficult, but to me it makes them better than place bets if you're not lucky enough to keep pressing and repeating the same numbers.  Come bets only need one repeater to make money, and if you have another come bet placed when an earlier one wins, the dealer add the odds and slides you the reminder. 

i've only increased my base come bet a few times when numbers were repeating like crazy.  Normally, a $5 table means an average of $15 when the bet is established.  If I played a $15 table that included minimum $15 come bets, I assume i'd be making $45 bets on each established come bet.  That's a bit rich for my blood!  3 come bets plus the pass line with double odds would be 4 x $45 = $180.  That's my starting bankroll almost.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2025, 03:15:37 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #284 on: January 13, 2025, 03:23:57 PM »
I meant TAS -- Tall -- All -- Small.  I tried to avoid saying TSA!   :rofl:

Too many Ls in the name.  confused me!

I never cheer when 7 rolls and i win a small rebate on the come layout.  I probably lost more than that on the pass line alone.

Sometimes, if the dice seem to be rolling each number twice before 7, I'll place the inside numbers and a come bet.  If the come bet moves to a placed number, I use those winnings to make the odds bet in it -- down with odds.  If the dice aren't seven-ing out too soon, the place bets feeding the extra come bet odds works nicely.  Then, if the same number cycles many times, the come bet makes more and more since the odds pay higher than the 1:1 base come bet.

There's a method to taking advantage of come bets and protecting them from come out rolls. Not difficult, but to me it makes them better than place bets if you're not lucky enough to keep pressing and repeating the same numbers.  Come bets only need one repeater to make money, and if you have another come bet placed when an earlier one wins, the dealer add the odds and slides you the reminder. 

i've only increased my base come bet a few times when numbers were repeating like crazy.  Normally, a $5 table means an average of $15 when the bet is established.  If I played a $15 table that included minimum $15 come bets, I assume i'd be making $45 bets on each established come bet.  That's a bit rich for my blood!  3 come bets plus the pass line with double odds would be 4 x $45 = $180.  That's my starting bankroll almost.

It's "ATS" All, Tall, Small.

Or

5,5,5 or toss chips at the stickman and say 1,3,1 or 25,25,25; etc.... They will know what you want.

Playing the come has an advantage as you protect at least the bet from the 7.  But the disadvantage is that you need the number to hit twice.  So a place bet wins more cause the initial come bet is even money. And it can lose more if the 7 comes before any # hits.

Craps has been around for a long time and people have tried to figure out the best strategy. Some are better than others, but luck is still needed.  So in the end, you play what you want to have fun.

QUIETShooter

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #285 on: January 13, 2025, 03:40:53 PM »
For craps, it's have enough bankroll for 10 shooters. So depending on your strategy, is what your bankroll would be. Example: I play the inside place bets on a $15 table. So my bankroll should be $660 ($66x10).

Yes, I do this also.

I play 96 across so I buy in for $1001.  My SIL likes to give people a dollar with the 4 numbers on the bill having a 7 for good luck.  So I include this dollar bill when I buy in at craps.  She constantly looks at dollar bills and save these for Vegas trips.

More than once when the boxman counts out the bills he hesitates at that dollar.  Then he looks at me and I smile and nod my head like a bobble head doll on the dashboard of a car. :rofl:
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #286 on: January 13, 2025, 04:52:45 PM »
It's "ATS" All, Tall, Small.

Or

5,5,5 or toss chips at the stickman and say 1,3,1 or 25,25,25; etc.... They will know what you want.

Playing the come has an advantage as you protect at least the bet from the 7.  But the disadvantage is that you need the number to hit twice.  So a place bet wins more cause the initial come bet is even money. And it can lose more if the 7 comes before any # hits.

Craps has been around for a long time and people have tried to figure out the best strategy. Some are better than others, but luck is still needed.  So in the end, you play what you want to have fun.

The only winning strategy i ever heard for craps was to only bet the "Don't" bets -- against the dice.  If it's good enough odds for the house, it's good enough for the player.  The problem, as you said, is the other players getting pissed when the table turns cold and you're making bank!

Of course, to really take advantage of those bets, you need to lay odds, meaning you win less than you risk.  But, based on the dice, the odds of that bet winning is higher -- hence the need to offer the house a better edge when the odds greatly favor hitting a 7 before, say, a 4 or 10.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #287 on: January 14, 2025, 08:23:05 AM »
The only winning strategy i ever heard for craps was to only bet the "Don't" bets -- against the dice.  If it's good enough odds for the house, it's good enough for the player.  The problem, as you said, is the other players getting pissed when the table turns cold and you're making bank!

Of course, to really take advantage of those bets, you need to lay odds, meaning you win less than you risk.  But, based on the dice, the odds of that bet winning is higher -- hence the need to offer the house a better edge when the odds greatly favor hitting a 7 before, say, a 4 or 10.

The math says DP is the bet to do.  With 1 of 6 rolls that is supposed to be a 7. I think the 1% house advantage though is based on pass with max odds and not on the DP.

QUIETShooter

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #288 on: January 14, 2025, 09:34:59 AM »
Yeah, because the majority of players play the right side, the dark side is not looked to well amongst the majority.

I like when I play alone at the table.  Fun because I try all sorts of things like dark side and other strategies that require a lot of work for the dealers.

On a busy table some strategies that require the dealer to set up across then take it all down is frowned upon.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

changemyoil66

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #289 on: January 14, 2025, 11:33:11 AM »
Yeah, because the majority of players play the right side, the dark side is not looked to well amongst the majority.

I like when I play alone at the table.  Fun because I try all sorts of things like dark side and other strategies that require a lot of work for the dealers.

On a busy table some strategies that require the dealer to set up across then take it all down is frowned upon.

Many years ago, before I knew how to bet to maximize my profits (play place #s), I was at NYNY and on an empty table. I was only betting like $10 on pass and 1-2X odds.  I had already made 2 points. THen this guy comes and bets $600 in DP. I made my point. He then bet $800 on DP and I made that point too. He then left.  The dealers all laughed when he left.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #290 on: January 14, 2025, 02:10:41 PM »
The math says DP is the bet to do.  With 1 of 6 rolls that is supposed to be a 7. I think the 1% house advantage though is based on pass with max odds and not on the DP.

Yes. The only time the dice odds are in the player's advantage is on the come out roll, when a 7 wins automatically -- and the 11 helps the odds slightly.  Come bets are nothing more than a pass line bet you can place after the come out roll, so that bet has the same mechanics and advantages as a pass line bet.

The odds bets are a double edge sword.  When that bet wins you make more than you risked.  If you happen to win 5 out of 10 come bets with odds, you made more money than you lost. How much more depends on the pay out for each number that won.  Rolling a 4 and 10 will pay double the odds bet.

The downside is, the odds on the pass line only work after the come out roll, at which point the house has the advantage with the odds of a 7 coming up.  Winning on a come out roll only pays even money on the pass bet.

This sheet shows the house edge is 0% for odds bets on the pass line and come bets.  if memory serves, that's a rounded number.  The real number i remember seeing was a very small fraction.

https://www.controlledcraps.com/craps-payouts-odds-chart/
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #291 on: January 14, 2025, 02:47:59 PM »


This sheet shows the house edge is 0% for odds bets on the pass line and come bets.  if memory serves, that's a rounded number.  The real number i remember seeing was a very small fraction.

https://www.controlledcraps.com/craps-payouts-odds-chart/

It's less than 1% is what is the common saying.  IIRC it's like 0.41%.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #292 on: January 14, 2025, 02:59:34 PM »
It's less than 1% is what is the common saying.  IIRC it's like 0.41%.

I believe that's if you combine the base bet's odds once it's established to the odds bet's odds.    The odds bet alone is not in the house's favor.

Base bet odds:
Quote
The House Edge on Come Bets
Like all casino games, craps has a built-in advantage for the house, known
as the “house edge.” The house edge on come bets is slightly lower than the
one on pass line bets, but it is still present.

In craps, the house edge is determined by the number of ways a player can
win or lose and the payout odds for each possible outcome.

For come bets, the house edge is 1.41% on the 4 and 10, 1.52% on the 5
and 9, and 1.82% on the 6 and 8. This means that, on average, the casino
will keep a certain percentage of every come bet placed on these numbers.

"Odds bet" odds
Quote
One way to reduce the house edge on come bets is to take “free odds.”

Free odds are an additional bet that you can place after a come bet or pass line
bet, and they pay out at true odds rather than the lower odds that the casino pays
on the original wager.

Free odds bets are placed on the layout behind the pass line or come area and
are usually marked with the words “free odds.”

For example, if the point is a 6 or 8, the true odds of rolling the point again before
rolling a 7 are 6:5.

This means that if you place a $5 free odds bet on the 6 or 8, you’ll receive a payout
of $6 if the point is rolled again. Free odds bets have no house edge, meaning
the casino doesn’t have an advantage on these bets.

https://www.artofcraps.com/craps-bets/the-come-bet/
« Last Edit: January 14, 2025, 03:05:09 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #293 on: January 14, 2025, 03:17:58 PM »
I don't have a daily budget, but recognize when on tilt.  In general, I keep about $3K in my pocket. Good thing I CCW. When I hit the UTM royal flush on the river, I had $8K in my pocket ($3K starting plus $5K win).

I usually buy in $500 for any given game. But have left after losing $100 often. Last trip we were at Resorts World and they had $15 3 card poker. Lost 5 hands in a row, so I left. $45 a hand ($15 table). Even the deal agreed it was good for me to leave when I was cashing out.

At least with craps, my strategy change is after 3 PSO's. I then hedge with laying the 4 and 10 if they haven't been rolled. And if they have, then I'll play DP enough to cover my place bets.  But in general, my stop loss is $500 on craps. Regardless the time spent on the table.

i remember the first time playing 3 card poker at The Cal.  i was head-to-head with the dealer, and she kept beating my hand no matter what i had.  This dude walked up and sat to my left.  He won every hand he played and left when I left.  After an hour having an early breakfast, it hit me.  He was watching the flow of the cards for awhile.  When he saw the dealer making very good hands, he started taking her cards.  When I left, he figured he'd be getting my crappy hands and left, too.

That's what I try to do now.  Any poker game, I see if the dealer is getting hands.  If not, i avoid jumping in and causing them to get better cards.  if so, i try to get third base so i can take those good cards.

Live and learn.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #294 on: January 14, 2025, 03:40:55 PM »
i remember the first time playing 3 card poker at The Cal.  i was head-to-head with the dealer, and she kept beating my hand no matter what i had.  This dude walked up and sat to my left.  He won every hand he played and left when I left.  After an hour having an early breakfast, it hit me.  He was watching the flow of the cards for awhile.  When he saw the dealer making very good hands, he started taking her cards.  When I left, he figured he'd be getting my crappy hands and left, too.

That's what I try to do now.  Any poker game, I see if the dealer is getting hands.  If not, i avoid jumping in and causing them to get better cards.  if so, i try to get third base so i can take those good cards.

Live and learn.

Gotta be aware that some casinos, the dealer gets their cards first for poker type games.  Cause I used to play 2 hands to change the vibe if I saw the dealer always wnning too.  Then I noticed what I stated. But what I do try to do is sit in #1 position so people coming in don't affect my cards. I began doing this when playing UTH at Resorts World. A lady sat to my right and she was getting full houses very often.   

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #295 on: January 14, 2025, 03:53:03 PM »
Gotta be aware that some casinos, the dealer gets their cards first for poker type games.  Cause I used to play 2 hands to change the vibe if I saw the dealer always wnning too.  Then I noticed what I stated. But what I do try to do is sit in #1 position so people coming in don't affect my cards. I began doing this when playing UTH at Resorts World. A lady sat to my right and she was getting full houses very often.

Good point.  That's been stated in many gambling videos on YT as well. 

Seems in most card games, there's a hot seat and an ice cold seat.  i've had people come in on my right and start winning like crazy with "my" cards.  Really dampens the fun!
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #296 on: January 14, 2025, 04:49:21 PM »
That's why I like Pai Gow.  First hand randomized, or at least was on tables I usually played. 

For 3Card Poker, I used to enjoy playing that for the "mindless" factor.  I also tried to sit first to dealer's left for first cards dealt aspect, and not "subject" to folks jumping in and out.  In theory random, but. . . not superstitious per se, but maybe irrational belief haha. 

Similar with new cards.  I've been on tables many times where there's been a really bad run of cards.  You can request new cards and I've typically seen the pit boss allow.  Especially when you've either been playing for a while or have played a lot there recently. 

Another game I got into recently was bacarrat.  So interesting the table dynamics.  A few friends and I like to play on tables with just us.  So many times, we were on a table and then some of "those people" joined and started complaining about the cards. 

Craps is still by far my favorite, but also the most volatile. 

macsak

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #297 on: January 14, 2025, 05:03:06 PM »
what do you mean, "those people"?...

That's why I like Pai Gow.  First hand randomized, or at least was on tables I usually played. 

For 3Card Poker, I used to enjoy playing that for the "mindless" factor.  I also tried to sit first to dealer's left for first cards dealt aspect, and not "subject" to folks jumping in and out.  In theory random, but. . . not superstitious per se, but maybe irrational belief haha. 

Similar with new cards.  I've been on tables many times where there's been a really bad run of cards.  You can request new cards and I've typically seen the pit boss allow.  Especially when you've either been playing for a while or have played a lot there recently. 

Another game I got into recently was bacarrat.  So interesting the table dynamics.  A few friends and I like to play on tables with just us.  So many times, we were on a table and then some of "those people" joined and started complaining about the cards. 

Craps is still by far my favorite, but also the most volatile.

drck1000

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #298 on: January 14, 2025, 05:30:33 PM »
what do you mean, "those people"?...
Take a guess…

changemyoil66

Re: What happened to the Vegas I used to know.....smh
« Reply #299 on: January 23, 2025, 09:54:53 AM »
IDK how NV did it in the past, but as of a few years ago and to today, they will not detain an illegal unless they committed a violent crime or has a warrant.  Which means if they get caught speeding, then LVMPD will issue a ticket and then they're free to go.

They do have authority to do so, even though they're not a federal LEO.  It's estimated that there are about 47,000 illegals in NV.  IDK how much in Vegas, but I assume most are in Vegas due to it having the highest population of all counties (Clark County).