I had made this same hypothetical statement.

In all seriousness and in the spirit of avoiding any unnecessary legal troubles, would a legal concealed carry holder actually be able to draw and fire shots at the suspect? After all, the suspect pointed a gun at her face and told  her to "get out" of her car.

What is the proper thing to do in this situation?

One answer is to hope he doesn't do anything to you but take your car, which is what happened for the sake of Ms. Valentine.

I'd just let him take the car at that point. If he wanted to shoot the woman, he would've done it already.  You wouldn't have the knowledge that he shot other people in the morning.  And if you screw something up....hung up on the draw, malfunction, etc, you are going to die.

If there's more to it, like he tells you to get in the car and drive, then I'd take the chance and shoot.  there's a high likelihood of dying in a kidnapping of strangers

I'd just let him take the car at that point. If he wanted to shoot the woman, he would've done it already.  You wouldn't have the knowledge that he shot other people in the morning.  And if you screw something up....hung up on the draw, malfunction, etc, you are going to die.

If there's more to it, like he tells you to get in the car and drive, then I'd take the chance and shoot.  there's a high likelihood of dying in a kidnapping of strangers

You never know what you'll do as a situation unfolds. 

Does he have the drop on you? 

Does an opportunity present itself to draw your weapon and prevail?

Are you enabling an obviously dangerous person to continue on and hurt or kill someone else -- maybe your child or spouse?

How can you be sure he won't shoot you anyway, just because he's got nothing to lose already and he's planning on suicide by Cop?

There are multiple accounts of store clerks 100% cooperating with an armed robber, only to be shot and killed as the criminal was done and about to leave.  No reason for it at all.

For all anyone knows, if someone is robbing you at gun point, they may not want to leave witnesses.  if you're at your place of business, it could be a disgruntled customer or employee/former employee looking for payback.

Then there are the crazy people wanting to rack up a body count for poops and laughter.

If someone points a gun at me, I will assume they are planning to kill me.  If not immediately, then before the encounter has ended. 

just call 911.

You never know what you'll do as a situation unfolds. 

There's a lot of what ifs.. But this wasn't your typical criminal.  He was very experienced from what I've read on his history.

While he was serving time in an Arizona prison, he was the victim in a murder attempt.  His cell door opened for no reason and the guards disappeared.   He was confronted by a gang and disarmed a knife from one of them and stabbed him badly.  He got badly beaten but was able to fend them off until the guards came back.

If you're close to him, there's a good possibility he'd see you draw and disarm you.  Then beat and kill you.  If at a distance you'll get rounds on him first, but unless you get a good headshot, he'll return rounds your way.  He's not someone that would.stop.or retreat.

You don't know who your facing, and I'm sure you'd take out most criminals.  But Tafokitau is different.

just scrap...

just call 911.

just scrap...

Yeah, jus tell um, "Wat brah, you lik go up and up?"
Where is that up and up guy when we need him.

There's a lot of what ifs.. But this wasn't your typical criminal.  He was very experienced from what I've read on his history.

While he was serving time in an Arizona prison, he was the victim in a murder attempt.  His cell door opened for no reason and the guards disappeared.   He was confronted by a gang and disarmed a knife from one of them and stabbed him badly.  He got badly beaten but was able to fend them off until the guards came back.

If you're close to him, there's a good possibility he'd see you draw and disarm you.  Then beat and kill you.  If at a distance you'll get rounds on him first, but unless you get a good headshot, he'll return rounds your way.  He's not someone that would.stop.or retreat.

You don't know who your facing, and I'm sure you'd take out most criminals.  But Tafokitau is different.

"You don't know who you're facing"...

Unless you're familiar with the attacker, that's always the case.  I'm not going to wonder if this is some cockroach who can't be killed or a wannabe gangster who's doing this for clicks on his Instagram.

As i said, until you're in that situation, you don't know what you'll do.  Part of your action depends on your read on the perp.  if he's more sure of himself versus scared, you have to take that into consideration.  But, if he's holding the rifle in a way that is more useful as a bludgeon than a firearm, he's probably not thinking about shooting it.

I'd use my best judgement, and hopefully make the right call in the moment.  Nobody can do more than that.  The rest is hindsight.

If you're close to him, there's a good possibility he'd see you draw and disarm you.  Then beat and kill you.  If at a distance you'll get rounds on him first, but unless you get a good headshot, he'll return rounds your way.  He's not someone that would.stop.or retreat.

You don't know who your facing, and I'm sure you'd take out most criminals.  But Tafokitau is different.

That's why training/practice drawing. You're prob right if the woman were to purse draw. But for someone who can draw and fire by 1.3 seconds, he wouldn't stand a chance.  I mean I guess if they don't mag dump and only shoot 1 round, then maybe he has a chance. But doing so is foolish.

"You don't know who you're facing"...

Unless you're familiar with the attacker, that's always the case.  I'm not going to wonder if this is some cockroach who can't be killed or a wannabe gangster who's doing this for clicks on his Instagram.

As i said, until you're in that situation, you don't know what you'll do.  Part of your action depends on your read on the perp.  if he's more sure of himself versus scared, you have to take that into consideration.  But, if he's holding the rifle in a way that is more useful as a bludgeon than a firearm, he's probably not thinking about shooting it.

I'd use my best judgement, and hopefully make the right call in the moment.  Nobody can do more than that.  The rest is hindsight.

It does suck that the CCW holder also has to factor in lawsuits when defending themselves against a guy like this.  Will his family sue me, will he sue me, will the state try and prove that I could have retreated to complete safety, etc...All our use of force laws protect the bad guys.

It does suck that the CCW holder also has to factor in lawsuits when defending themselves against a guy like this.  Will his family sue me, will he sue me, will the state try and prove that I could have retreated to complete safety, etc...All our use of force laws protect the bad guys.

This is why calling 911 and leaving the line open is a prudent move.  Evidence is recorded.

Also, as someone once said, 'people sue for the stupidest things.'  No matter how hard you try to prevent it, people will sue -- if for no other reason but to get you to settle without going in front of a judge.  They will ask for a massive amount hoping you'll do the math and decide it's cheaper to settle than pay for lawyers, take time off work, etc.

If you're worried about getting sued when someone else attacks you, you need to rethink your priorities.  It's one thing to try to adhere to the law, but it's another to fear someone else abusing the legal system.

Worry about the things you can control and prepare to deal with the things you can't.

This is HI!!!

If you had shot him for carjacking, immediately you’d be arrested and charged for murder. If not shot by HPD.

He would have been suddenly a good kid out of prison and looking to turn his life around.
A victim slaughtered by an evil concealed carrier.
This is why we can’t have individuals legally carrying guns.

Need to make an example out of you.

This is HI!!!

If you had shot him for carjacking, immediately you’d be arrested and charged for murder. If not shot by HPD.

He would have been suddenly a good kid out of prison and looking to turn his life around.
A victim slaughtered by an evil concealed carrier.
This is why we can’t have individuals legally carrying guns.

Need to make an example out of you.

The communist state of hawaii that we live in is just begrudgingly and barely complying with the Bruen decision.  Because they have to.  They've set booby traps along the way for law abiding citizens who choose to apply for a CW license.

Our communist state of hawaii and the goons that run it do not embrace the 2nd amendment.  They took the oath of office just to get in and start their communist ways.  There was no conviction when they said their oath.  They might as well have said " Yeah, yeah, whatever.  Let's get this BS oath out of the way".

The 2nd amendment is a mindset.  A mindset by Americans who believe in Freedom.  If this mindset is not shared by those who run government, they will work to eliminate it.

This is what is what is happening in the banana republik of hawaii.

Smiling faces.  Smiling faces......they lie.  They don't tell the truth.  Not everywhere, but it is happening here.

I had made this same hypothetical statement.

In all seriousness and in the spirit of avoiding any unnecessary legal troubles, would a legal concealed carry holder actually be able to draw and fire shots at the suspect? After all, the suspect pointed a gun at her face and told  her to "get out" of her car.

What is the proper thing to do in this situation?

One answer is to hope he doesn't do anything to you but take your car, which is what happened for the sake of Ms. Valentine.

There are a couple of questions to consider here: 1) Would you be legally justified in using force? What about deadly force? 2) Would it be tactically sound to try to draw and fire in that situation?

For the legal piece, Hawaii law says:

§703-304  Use of force in self-protection. 
     (1)  Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 703-308, the use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by the other person on the present occasion.
     (2)  The use of deadly force is justifiable under this section if the actor believes that deadly force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping, rape, or forcible sodomy.
     (3)  Except as otherwise provided in subsections (4) and (5) of this section, a person employing protective force may estimate the necessity thereof under the circumstances as he believes them to be when the force is used without retreating, surrendering possession, doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do, or abstaining from any lawful action.

…and the exceptions don’t apply to this situation.  So it looks like using force would be legally justified (but not necessarily deadly force), since the guy was immediately about to use unlawful force against you.  You can use force without retreat or surrendering property… unless something in subsection (4) or (5) applies.

Subsection (5) says:

(5) The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section if:
…
(b)  The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:…

So if you believed you could surrender your car with “complete safety,” no deadly force authorized.

Would it be tactically sound?  Too many variables to know, but I think your best option would probably be to floor it and haul ass.

and this how we get more anti 2a laws...the govt could have done "more"
with all the corruption going on with local govt. I'm amazed at how much the public pushes for "more" instead of demanding more of themselves...pro 2a , pro self-defense

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/01/06/loved-ones-say-police-could-have-done-more-protect-victim-big-island-murder-suicide/