FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24 (Read 43050 times)

macsak

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2024, 06:49:43 PM »
sens@capitol.hawaii.gov

error of omission or commission? SB 3196- PLEASE OPPOSE

aloha senator please oppose SB 3196 SD!!! we were told that the amendments eliminated the assault rifle and assault shotgun bans. in actuality, by leaving in the ban on "assault weapons attachments" the ban not only encompasses so called assault rifles and assault shotguns, it bans almost all firearms and airsoft and toys. JDC Committee Chair Rhoads said himself that the bans had been removed at the hearing and in the press. was the inclusion of the attachments in error or on purpose? it doesn't matter at this point, but clearly this bill has been passed in bad faith either way and should be killed

mahalo

macsak

AmbuBadger

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2024, 09:10:09 PM »
sens@capitol.hawaii.gov

I tried this email address and got a failure notice stating that it had an "improper hop count." Might have to email each individually after copying the initial email text...

Flapp_Jackson

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2024, 09:26:12 PM »
I tried this email address and got a failure notice stating that it had an "improper hop count." Might have to email each individually after copying the initial email text...
Short answer & possible solution: 

Try sending from your provider's web interface -- not your computer's email client software.  Just use your browser to connect and send.  Or, you can try sending from an alternate email account.  if you're getting messages returned using Spectrum/RoadRunner, try changing the FROM address in your client software to your GMail address if you use that. 

Long answer (might be the problem, or might not be):

That can happen if you're connected to the internet somewhere other than a server on the same network as your email address. 

For example, I was unable to send email with my FROM address set to @hawaii.rr.com unless I was directly connected to my home network (RoadRunner, now Spectrum).  I could use a Roadrunner public access point (hot spot) that are all over the island, but i rarely used those.  I'd connect at work or in a hotel room, and the email got returned as if i was sending SPAM.

One workaround is to not use the RoadRunner/Spectrum server for outgoing mail.  GMail from Google allows SMTP messages from any US network.  So, i set my laptop to receive using the RoadRunner POP/IMAP services, but my outgoing messages always went out via GMail SMTP -- even if i was using my RoadRunner FROM address.

Not sure if Roadrunner or Spectrum -- or any other Hawaii service provider -- is still blocking outside SMTP requests.  I haven't need to to that for a while now.  But, it's something to try at least.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

hvybarrels

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2024, 09:33:48 PM »
Tech services to the rescue! :shaka:
Sharing is caring, but forced redistribution is communism.

macsak

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2024, 09:43:33 PM »
I tried this email address and got a failure notice stating that it had an "improper hop count." Might have to email each individually after copying the initial email text...

people have been getting the error message if they send to sens@hawaii.gov...

Begle1

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2024, 12:04:43 AM »
My email blast is below. I don't expect anybody to read it but it makes me feel better to write it.


To my Senators;

Please be aware that SB3196, in its current condition, suffers from severe ambiguity, and is a terrible piece of legislation regardless of how you feel about the role of firearms in our society.

1) By defining "assault weapon attachments" as any device capable of being attached to a firearm that is specifically designed for making or converting a firearm into an assault pistol, assault rifle, or assault shotgun, the bill either bans almost everything or nothing, depending on interpretation.

To explain, many non-semiauto firearms have folding stocks, flash suppressors, pistol grips, foregrips, or the other items that would make them an "assault weapon" if they were semiauto. These items could theoretically be removed from the non-semiauto gun and placed onto a semiauto-gun... So... Would anybody who owns these devices be breaking the law? Would lever- or bolt-action guns be illegal simply because they are fitted with components that could be considered "assault weapon attachments"?

Or does "specifically designed" mean that nothing would count as an "assault weapon attachment" as long as it had a single other use other than being installed on a semiauto weapon? Because then nothing would be an assault weapon attachment. 

It is Schrodinger's language that'd simultaneously means nothing and everything.


2) SB3196 also seeks to change the "assault pistol" test from allowing one listed characteristic to allowing NO listed characteristics. Those who originally drafted this language were making an effort to avoid banning firearms like specialized target pistols just because they were too big or had their magazine in the "wrong place". By changing the "one" to a "zero", this bill would turn the original legislative intent on its head, and would ban a great number of specialized firearms that were originally particularly exempted because they had no practical criminal use. (There is also a further matter of ambiguity regarding what "a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm" is, which has always been a point of contention, but would now be more pertinent since they'd be specifically banned. eg Would all Glocks now be illegal, just because somebody somewhere has a fully automatic version of a Glock?)


3) SB3196 also seeks to ban 50 caliber rifles regardless of which 50 caliber cartridge they're using; there are reasonable hunting calibers that would be banned by this. Federal law already regulates calibers above .50, so this bill seeks to arbitrarily set the allowable limit to .4999, and there is no sound logic in this. There is nothing that a 50 caliber rifle can do that a slightly smaller rifle couldn't; various jurisdictions such as California have passed similar legislation, which has spurred development of not-quite-50 caliber rifles.


4) The "assault weapon" definitions themselves look familiar because they are copy-and-pasted legislation that is so firmly rooted in the 80's that it's embarrassing. Bayonet mounts do not plague our communities. Some specific guns listed don't even practically exist, and not only does legislating-by-name create a whack-a-mole scenario similar to legislating-by-caliber, but this particular game has been going on for decades, and the included list is at least a little ridiculous if you much know about guns. (And it's recurrently evident while reading through this bill, that whoever assembled it does not, in fact, know much at all about guns.)


I hope you find these points sufficient to vote NO on SB3196, without needing to rehash the perennial rationale regarding the role of firearms in our society. Which, to summarize:

• Humans have a fundamental right to self-defense;
• A corollary to that right is the right to possess and practice with a weapon useful for self-defense, for what use would be a right if you were only granted it the moment you had need of it?
• The right to self-defense does not cease to exist simply because you are attacked by a certain number of assailants;
• Law enforcement has the same right to self-defense as any other citizen; if our police carry or have access to a weapon, then that weapon must have a reasonable and legal use-case in our community;
• Section 17 of the Hawaii Bill of Rights, the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution, and the state and federal laws that place a large percentage of residents into the unorganized militia, exist for the hard times rather than the easy times;
• The "security of a free state" can and has been threatened not only by foreign governments, or corrupt local governments, but also by organized crime, religious fundamentalists, domestic or international terrorism, angry mobs motivated by hatred or vigilante fervor, unchecked commercial interests with mercenaries, etc;
• The private possession of firearms, even the mere possibility of privately possessed firearms, serves as a deterrent to those who would threaten the security and stability of our communities; imagine how different the world looks to a bigoted lynch mob, or a rapist, or a strong-armed racketeer wanting to extort protection money, if they know that their targets are incapable of defending themselves.
• Countries invest money into their defense industries in hope they'll never need the weapons and battle plans they develop; this theory of deterrence is little different on the personal level; is it more logical to hope you never need to fire the gun you do have, or to hope you'll never need the gun you don't have?


We live in a privileged era, or perhaps at the tail end of one. Mass gun violence is a terrible blight. The atrophy of our social communities, the destruction of our natural world, and the nihilism of our politics is also terrible. But ambiguous law that creates more questions than answers is no solution. Banning pistols or rifles for being too physically large is no answer. Putting a list of guns featured in Schwarzenegger movies into the HRS is no answer.

Please oppose SB3196;

Thank you for your time;

hvybarrels

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2024, 12:59:43 AM »
My email blast is below. I don't expect anybody to read it but it makes me feel better to write it.

I agree with your points, it's just excessively verbose and difficult to read.
Sharing is caring, but forced redistribution is communism.

QUIETShooter

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2024, 07:40:55 AM »
That's a great testimony, Begle 1  :thumbsup:

Mine was a tad more simple, just hitting upon the concerns the 2a community has about how the Bill passed the two committees and the strange changes that were made in the 2nd hearing.

I basically followed macsaks post earlier:

sens@capitol.hawaii.gov

error of omission or commission? SB 3196- PLEASE OPPOSE

aloha senator please oppose SB 3196 SD!!! we were told that the amendments eliminated the assault rifle and assault shotgun bans. in actuality, by leaving in the ban on "assault weapons attachments" the ban not only encompasses so called assault rifles and assault shotguns, it bans almost all firearms and airsoft and toys. JDC Committee Chair Rhoads said himself that the bans had been removed at the hearing and in the press. was the inclusion of the attachments in error or on purpose? it doesn't matter at this point, but clearly this bill has been passed in bad faith either way and should be killed

mahalo


Not exactly verbatim but along the same lines.

edited to add:  I also mentioned about the 2a community's concerns about the same people sending testimony on cut and paste forms multiple times, thereby inflating the actual number of testimonies in support of the Bill.  I questioned if this inflated number influenced the committees in their decision making as to whether the bill will die or pass in committee.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2024, 08:19:47 AM by QUIETShooter »
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

changemyoil66

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2024, 08:11:51 AM »
Tulsi reposted my friends IG post about this bill on how it bans parts.

drck1000

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2024, 08:12:16 AM »
Emailed the group and directly to my State Senator with more personalized message. 

oldfart

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2024, 08:27:20 AM »
I went to the range on Sat and Sun and passed out printed reminders to everybody there.

Note:
There seemed to be a LOT more people shooting on both days. I ran out of flyers.
Another thing I noticed was there were a lot of people teaching their kids how to shoot on the rifle AND pistol side.
Most people I spoke to were "verbally angry" at our legislators.  :rofl:
I saw Henry from Prime Sports, and he suggested having a uniform Tshirt made up for when we gather at the capitol for hearings.
I have HIFICO shirts and the Hele Mai shirts.
I think the bright yellow HIFICO shirts would make a good uniform.
Other lobby groups like to use red shirts.
What, Me Worry?

QUIETShooter

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2024, 08:36:46 AM »
I'd bet there are more people out there angry at the way things are here in Hawaii than those who are willing to do something about it.

Too bad.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2024, 09:08:57 AM »
people have been getting the error message if they send to sens@hawaii.gov...

I sent two test messages yesterday after this additional info was provided.

One was to sens@hawaii.gov, and the second was to sens@capitol.hawaii.gov.

Result:  Only the sens@hawaii.gov was kicked back -- "<<< 554 5.4.14 Hop count exceeded - possible mail loop ATTR34 "

That indicates the correct email address is:   sens@capitol.hawaii.gov

 :geekdanc: :shaka:

My advice is:  if you're using sens@hawaii.gov, STOP IT!!    :rofl:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2024, 09:21:53 AM »
I went to the range on Sat and Sun and passed out printed reminders to everybody there.

Note:
There seemed to be a LOT more people shooting on both days. I ran out of flyers.
Another thing I noticed was there were a lot of people teaching their kids how to shoot on the rifle AND pistol side.
Most people I spoke to were "verbally angry" at our legislators.  :rofl:
I saw Henry from Prime Sports, and he suggested having a uniform Tshirt made up for when we gather at the capitol for hearings.
I have HIFICO shirts and the Hele Mai shirts.
I think the bright yellow HIFICO shirts would make a good uniform.
Other lobby groups like to use red shirts.

If this bill passes as is, then you cannot teach your kid to shoot a rifle as it would be illegal to transfer the posession of an "assault weapon accessory" to them.  I mean, I guess you could remove the handguard, pistol grip, and flash hider, and buttstock.  And give your kid a big oven mitt so they don't burn their hand.

macsak

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2024, 10:07:50 AM »
thanks for proving i was right...

I sent two test messages yesterday after this additional info was provided.

One was to sens@hawaii.gov, and the second was to sens@capitol.hawaii.gov.

Result:  Only the sens@hawaii.gov was kicked back -- "<<< 554 5.4.14 Hop count exceeded - possible mail loop ATTR34 "

That indicates the correct email address is:   sens@capitol.hawaii.gov

 :geekdanc: :shaka:

My advice is:  if you're using sens@hawaii.gov, STOP IT!!    :rofl:

BRU

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2024, 10:14:00 AM »
If this bill passes as is, then you cannot teach your kid to shoot a rifle as it would be illegal to transfer the posession of an "assault weapon accessory" to them.  I mean, I guess you could remove the handguard, pistol grip, and flash hider, and buttstock.  And give your kid a big oven mitt so they don't burn their hand.
I don’t recall reading any wording that states the attachments need to be installed on the firearm to be prohibited so I assume just the mere possession of it would be a felony.

oldfart

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2024, 10:27:39 AM »
If this bill passes as is, then you cannot teach your kid to shoot a rifle as it would be illegal to transfer the posession of an "assault weapon accessory" to them.  I mean, I guess you could remove the handguard, pistol grip, and flash hider, and buttstock.  And give your kid a big oven mitt so they don't burn their hand.
========
 :rofl:
What, Me Worry?

randay

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2024, 11:02:14 AM »
I don’t recall reading any wording that states the attachments need to be installed on the firearm to be prohibited so I assume just the mere possession of it would be a felony.

they define it as:

"Assault weapon attachment" means any device capable of being attached to a firearm that is specifically designed for making or converting a firearm into an assault pistol, assault rifle, or assault shotgun.

so it does not need to be attached, just capable of being attached and specifically designed.

changemyoil66

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2024, 11:02:54 AM »
I don’t recall reading any wording that states the attachments need to be installed on the firearm to be prohibited so I assume just the mere possession of it would be a felony.

You're correct. It doesn't exclude attached accessories. Which means when you hand you kid an AR, there's at bunch of felonies on there for them. Since you cannot transfer possession.

AmbuBadger

Re: FIRE MISSION SB3196 Senate Floor Vote on 3/5/24
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2024, 11:12:42 AM »
You're correct. It doesn't exclude attached accessories. Which means when you hand you kid an AR, there's at bunch of felonies on there for them. Since you cannot transfer possession.

Same for all those airsoft and paintball gun shops... even Nerf guns take pic rail attachments these days.