hawaii AG refuses to give any information like in this document from Illinois
their answer is, "we don't provide legal advise"
so basically, in hawaii, you won't know what is legal until you are arrested and charged...

From what I read, the consensus in Illinois is that the attachments are fine as long as they're installed on a non-semiauto gun. Logic being you can't install them on a semiauto if they're already installed on another gun. But if you take them off, now it's a loose component that could be installed on a semiauto gun.

But that's hand-wavey conjuration. I don't believe courts have actually decided what it means, and when I search for law enforcement opinions on the matter, all I see are a bunch of counties where sheriffs are refusing to enforce it. Like our law, it's too ambiguous to mean anything until enforcement gets ahold of it, and enforcement can interpret at their discretion.

In practice, at a minimum it'd mean that even less people will be willing to ship guns or gun parts to Hawaii.

Here's a FAQ from Illinois:
https://isp.illinois.gov/Home/AssaultWeapons

At least they only banned 50 BMG and not all the other 50's.


The point is that an individual couldn't own a movie prop that happened to include random gun pieces. Like if somebody was a Star Wars collector who owned original or replica-of-original movie props, that'd be illegal.

Not as large a population as people with airsoft or paintball guns, or archers, or anybody at all with a firearm... But it shows how wide-reaching and ridiculous this language is.

many of us emailed and stated that the "assault weapons attachment" ban basically bans all firearms, airsoft, and even toys...

hawaii AG refuses to give any information like in this document from Illinois
their answer is, "we don't provide legal advise"
so basically, in hawaii, you won't know what is legal until you are arrested and charged...

The point is that an individual couldn't own a movie prop that happened to include random gun pieces. Like if somebody was a Star Wars collector who owned original or replica-of-original movie props, that'd be illegal.

Not as large a population as people with airsoft or paintball guns, or archers, or anybody at all with a firearm... But it shows how wide-reaching and ridiculous this language is.

Even with a small population like airsoft, a 14 year old will be a criminal or their parents.

For replica movie props, like a Star Wars, if it uses an accessory that can fit on a semi auto rifle, then yes, that prop would be illegal to buy or sell/give away.

I emailed and said it was absurd that we wouldn't know what it would ban, it was ambiguous Schrodinger's language that could either ban everything or nothing depending on interpretation, and it was therefore shameful and ridiculous legislation regardless of how anybody felt about the role of guns in society.

I mentioned how Illinois passed similar legislation a year ago and they don't know what it means yet either.

And I plan to tell Tamato the same thing. Her campaign mailer mentions "gun violence" at least twice though so I'm not optimistic.


But the flip side is that I'd rather they not make the language better because then it'd be harder to argue against. It's easier to poke holes in poorly-worded bullshit than well-worded bullshit. Maybe it's better at this point to just talk personal effects.
Is there still a chance it dies in committee? Who is on the JHA committee and what are their backgrounds?

I emailed and said it was absurd that we wouldn't know what it would ban, it was ambiguous Schrodinger's language that could either ban everything or nothing depending on interpretation, and it was therefore shameful and ridiculous legislation regardless of how anybody felt about the role of guns in society.

I mentioned how Illinois passed similar legislation a year ago and they don't know what it means yet either.

And I plan to tell Tamato the same thing. Her campaign mailer mentions "gun violence" at least twice though so I'm not optimistic.


But the flip side is that I'd rather they not make the language better because then it'd be harder to argue against. It's easier to poke holes in poorly-worded bullshit than well-worded bullshit. Maybe it's better at this point to just talk personal effects.
Is there still a chance it dies in committee? Who is on the JHA committee and what are their backgrounds?

I dont think it's ambiguous. I take it as the part itself are banned. The law doesn't say "if attached" or "if not attached".  Because it doesn't say this, then it's general possession of said product. 

Others who are better versed in the law than I am also take it the same way.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/03/09/gun-owners-accuse-hpd-intentionally-slowing-review-concealed-firearm-permits/



Comrade karl lying.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/03/09/gun-owners-accuse-hpd-intentionally-slowing-review-concealed-firearm-permits/



Comrade karl lying.

“If you don’t just hand them the gun over the counter, they’re gonna sue,” he said.

More hyperbolic nonsense from Rhodes. 

If you have a long gun permit, "they" can walk into a gun store, pay the purchase price, and the seller will "hand them the gun over the counter" before they walk out the door with it.  "They" can do that with as many long guns as they want for an entire year under that permit with no new background checks needed.

Why can't you do that with handguns?  why must you get a whole new background check for each handgun purchase?  Is it because more people do illegal things with handguns than long guns? 

The laws are inconsistent.  If handguns are used for crime more than other firearms, then why is there not a bill to ban them?  If long guns are rarely used for crime, why the bill to ban the most-owned semi-auto rifle in the nation?

The answer is staring you in the face.

Rhoades voted no on Palesrine ceasefire. He is fine with disarming HawaIi citizens but not ok with stopping funding that leads to death of kids in a foreign county. Rhoades has pissed off a lot of advocates and he should be voted out. This should be included in every 2a festimony to the House. Jusr another reason why Thoades is a lacky.

also wasn't wearing a mask in that hearing room
does he only wear a mask when there are heathen gun owners in the room?

Rhoades voted no on Palesrine ceasefire. He is fine with disarming HawaIi citizens but not ok with stopping funding that leads to death of kids in a foreign county. Rhoades has pissed off a lot of advocates and he should be voted out. This should be included in every 2a festimony to the House. Jusr another reason why Thoades is a lacky.

also wasn't wearing a mask in that hearing room
does he only wear a mask when there are heathen gun owners in the room?

 
Looks like we are the unwashed masses…

also wasn't wearing a mask in that hearing room
does he only wear a mask when there are heathen gun owners in the room?

same reason why Keith Kaneshiro wore a mask ...can't face the public

Us 2a people need to expand to other issues. This is the only way to oust those who want to take away our rights. We need to rile up UH students against Rhoades and his unreasonable stance on the death of keiki in Isarael and Palestine. It is clear that Rhoades is paid off and beholden to his top donors. No clue how this outsider was even chosen to represent Hawaii in any capacity.

Us 2a people need to expand to other issues. This is the only way to oust those who want to take away our rights. We need to rile up UH students against Rhoades and his unreasonable stance on the death of keiki in Isarael and Palestine. It is clear that Rhoades is paid off and beholden to his top donors. No clue how this outsider was even chosen to represent Hawaii in any capacity.

You lost me.

How is being ignored on other issues going to make him stop ignoring us on 2A issues?

I think (IMO) everyone of us agrees it is a POORLY WRITTEN bill (hey, lets throw this shit against the wall and see what sticks...),

but if it passes, we get stuck with the shit.

The ONLY way to defeat these crappy bills is to contact our elected reps (both Senate and House) and let them know we oppose them,
and if they don't we will support whoever runs against them.

We all know Karl Rhoads (BTW, did any one else notice he was named after Karl Marx???) wants ALL guns outlawed. The question is WHY?

Paul

You lost me.

How is being ignored on other issues going to make him stop ignoring us on 2A issues?

Guys like Rhoades are basically unbeatable on 2a issues. He will keep nickel and diming a 2a restriction every year. He and his donors have no problem waiting out legal decisions. For most people in Hawaii, guns rights are not even on the radar and thus politicians feel very little pressure from 2a advocates despite mountains of testimonies and willingness to educate them. This is why Rhoades and his ilk need to be pressured on different issues like his lack of support for a ceasefire. He pissed off a lot if people a couple of days ago and was the sole no vote in committee after over 500 written testiminies in support. But Rhoades buddies are always on here reading postings so, he will probably pivot.

Guys like Rhoades are basically unbeatable on 2a issues. He will keep nickel and diming a 2a restriction every year. He and his donors have no problem waiting out legal decisions. For most people in Hawaii, guns rights are not even on the radar and thus politicians feel very little pressure from 2a advocates despite mountains of testimonies and willingness to educate them. This is why Rhoades and his ilk need to be pressured on different issues like his lack of support for a ceasefire. He pissed off a lot if people a couple of days ago and was the sole no vote in committee after over 500 written testiminies in support. But Rhoades buddies are always on here reading postings so, he will probably pivot.

I'm still lost.

If you have, for argument's sake, 500 2A supporters, and those people are already not going to vote for Rhodes, those numbers are already 'cooked' into his polling numbers.

if those same 500 voters and call Rhodes and tell him, "I'm not voting for you next election, because you don't support a cease fire in Gaza," the poll numbers don't change.  He's still getting the same votes as before, and he's still losing the same 500 votes from 2A supporters -- only now the 500 have an alternate reason not to support him.

Unless we can convince others outside the 2A community to support one of his opponents who has a good shot at defeating him, I don't see where we'd be doing anything other than piling onto our list of reason we still won't vote for Rhodes.  The opponent would have to support 2A, of course, and that's not going to be an easy order to fill.

What am i missing?

I'm still lost.

If you have, for argument's sake, 500 2A supporters, and those people are already not going to vote for Rhodes, those numbers are already 'cooked' into his polling numbers.

if those same 500 voters and call Rhodes and tell him, "I'm not voting for you next election, because you don't support a cease fire in Gaza," the poll numbers don't change.  He's still getting the same votes as before, and he's still losing the same 500 votes from 2A supporters -- only now the 500 have an alternate reason not to support him.

Unless we can convince others outside the 2A community to support one of his opponents who has a good shot at defeating him, I don't see where we'd be doing anything other than piling onto our list of reason we still won't vote for Rhodes.  The opponent would have to support 2A, of course, and that's not going to be an easy order to fill.

What am i missing?

there is no opponent.  there is no credible opponent.

there was a credible opponent last cycle, and he lost bigly...

there is no opponent.  there is no credible opponent.

there was a credible opponent last cycle, and he lost bigly...

i stand corrected.  good to know.  I guess we gotta crank up the support some.

For most people in Hawaii, guns rights are not even on the radar and thus politicians feel very little pressure from 2a advocates despite mountains of testimonies and willingness to educate them.

You must not follow Hawai'i-based social media pages. A significant number of people don't support anti-2A efforts and laws. The problem is they aren't active in contributing to or participating in the governmental process.