While I appreciate your attempt, the problem that I have with it is that you did it ALL BY YOURSELF and you violated the law...generally not the best way to be viewed by politicians as a law-abiding citizen that simply wants to be able to defend himself and his family. When done by one person, things like that are far too easy to sweep under the rug and keep off of the radar. Not so easy when a bunch of people start applying for CCWs, get denied, and then make a VERY public complaint.

I have NO problem getting the ball rolling, setting up a booth at the range/matches, and taking point on this project (pending HiCarry's inquiry of course). I just get REALLY annoyed when it feels like someone on the 2AH board wants to shut this down before it starts because of what appears to be sheer laziness or contempt.

- Alex

Yea that was a tough sell if you know what I mean!!!

I already present the solution ... Until something horrible happens the majority of people in Hawaii will continue to see guns as the problem.

Not really...you stated that what was needed was someone who was injured and could then sue "somebody" for "something" if they had been otherwise able to defend themselves. I suggested to you that your concept was flawed based on the legal concepts of immunity for the Chief and standing for the victim. Simply waiting for some legal actions based on flawed understanding of the legal process or for "something horrible" to happen as the impetus of change is not really suggesting a solution. It's just hoping....

Let me clarify, the NRA runs stories in their publications every month about people using CCW to defend themselves and others. These are the same situations that need to happen in this state, to wake up the majority. Because that's how our country works, the majority rules. And unless you have thousands and thousands of people storming the capitol building downtown ( remember gay marriage ban) we won't get to exercise CCW.

There have been a few stories of self defense in Hawaii that made it to the NRA publications. There have also been stories that haven't made it...but you are right in terms of the pathetically low participation of gun owners in any efforts to get legislation passed. But, short of waiting for that horribile situation to arise, what can we do to encourage more action from Hawaii's gun owners?

Further more, you can obviously copy and paste but your reading and comprehension skills are off par. I never said anything about applicants wasting their time or applying for CCW as being fruitless. I told Alex if he wanted to organize hundreds of people to apply for CCW to go right ahead. What you folks don't realize is you likely will not find hundreds of people to apply, which is why we have CCW as a not-issue policy. Hell, there aint even a hundred people on this forum.

Yep, I can cut and paste with the best of them...if I misunderstood your comments about the utility of Alex's suggestion, I apologize. But again, I ask you, outside of storming the capitol, which as you correctly note is not likely to happen, or waiting for that teriible event that spurs the yet undefined actions that will ultimately result in changing the current laws, what do you suggest WE do?

I am not trying to be snarky here...and I am as frustrated as anyone. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, WE need to find solutions....you can complain all you want, you can sit back and wait for that "perfect" combination of circumstances that you hope will change things, or you can participate in discussions with like minded people and come up with solutions you are willing to back up with a little sweat equity and time....until then, it's all just talk.

If you read my original response to Alex I said that finding 100+ people to sue for there constitutional rights is basically impossible because of the lack of participation in legal issues in Hawaii. I also said that getting denied is not going to make a difference unless something bad enough to publicize happens to shock people into wanting CCW. Those aren't complaints, its constructive criticism. Now that that's clear let's all move on.

I think the easiest way to get people involved is to start a petition. It really only involves a signature and a name, so I think many people who wouldn't otherwise get involved might atleast sign it.  Remember, baby steps is the key and we have to make it simple to get involved. if a petition sheet was left at each gunshop and range in Hawaii, I'm hopeful that a lot of people can be reached and informed. We need to get the gun store people in on this too, so they can push this at the counter.

Maybe 2A can make a sister site, call it 'conceal carry Hawaii' or something, link it to this site of course, and post up some info for others to look at. Things like NRA stories and whatnot are a good start.

There was another discussion on here where we all jumped up and said "hey I can do that!" And then nothing ever happened. I hope this doesn't end like that.

Maybe 2A can make a sister site, call it 'conceal carry Hawaii' or something, link it to this site of course, and post up some info for others to look at.

I don't think that's a good idea.  Before 2A Hawaii came along, the active local gun forums were HRA and a sub-forum over on... was it AR15.com?  Anyway, with the migration of people here, both of those forums have pretty much died.  I think if we were to split our efforts, we may kill both this and the new forum.  Face it, we're a small group, and we're likely to remain a small group.

Well if we're talking baby steps and attempting to sway people. Maybe we can start a subforum or discussion about victims of violence that could have protected themselves, were they to legally carry, or owned a gun at home (to encourage owership).

1 example I can think of is that teacher or something that was just simply eating her saimin on a bench at a mall and then got stabbed to death by some druggie.
Rape and murder that happened in almost plain view in waikiki beach (One of the reasons why the yellow-shirt aloha patrol started).
The lady that was murdered by an angry ex-boyfriend in the middle of the street, beating her face in with a shotgun.
A friend's cousin had his house broken into and a hatchet buried in his head.
The story a few years (months?) ago where someone walked into a couple's home, and while the guy was able to subdue the criminal, not before the criminal killed his wife.

Maybe we should create a forum and collect these examples as a baby step? We can do whatever we want with it as it's collecting.
Sorry if it exists already.

whoops

Has it been discussed that maybe we should put flyers up at KHSC and pass out brochures to raise awareness? These brochures can also be put in all the local gunshops. It's one thing to create a forum but it's another to get people to go to it so we could also include the website address on the flyers and brochures. We could brainstorm and discuss what info would be pertinent to the cause and I could create a layout  Then we could just make mass copies at Kinko's.

To be honest, when I bought my first firearm 6 weeks ago, I was not aware of any of these 2A issues. Now I feel like there is a sense of urgency surrounding these issues. I am not well versed in law and politics but I'll do what I can to help 

"Grasshopper" change in Hawaii's gun laws is Not going to happen over night.
 
Change will happen when ALL of Hawaii's gun owners wake  up and become Dues Paying members of HRA and put Money
into HRA's PAC.
 
IF HRA got 10,000 dues paying members over night and each member put in $5 or $10 for each gun they owned, HRA would be
a force that No legislator or political party can ignore. 
 
Remember Membership Numbers and $$$ in a PAC will get their attention every time.
 
If HRA had those Numbers and picked a Senator and a Representative to defeat and defeated said person in an open election,
want to guess will happen in the funny building with the hole in the roof?

Maybe 2A can make a sister site, call it 'conceal carry Hawaii' or something, link it to this site of course, and post up some info for others to look at.

It's funny you say that. I'm not done with it but...

www.hawaiiccw.com

Just something I was working on. I have got a ways to go with it, but in general this was my idea. I will be redoing the whole theme here soon, just gotta find the right one. Only been playing with the wordpress for about 15 hours or so in duration.  Also have a facebook, twitter, myspace, ect ect done for the same name.  I thought about linking the forums to here, but haven't asked yet. If admins would allow I would just direct forums here, but I wanted some sort of site we could put relevant information, news, etc. about guns, laws, court cases and the like.


Also, in all of my understanding (and the complaint I drafted), you can still hit the Chief of Police in the US 1983 actions. He's not immune if the policy is constitutional, but he makes it unconstitutional. (Which is the case here on island.)

One other thing is that the conditions and crime in Hawaii is not as bad as it is in the mainland, YET...  But if the trend of increasing crime, with limited consequenses for criminals keeps rising, I'm sure people attitude will have to change.  Many will have to suffer in order for the public view of self protection to change.

I would just like to throw this out there as an example of limited consequences for criminals.
 

As part of the agreement, the state will not pursue a life prison term without the opportunity for parole. Bartley will give up his right to appeal any part of his prosecution, conviction or sentence.
"We're talking about a 15-year-old who murdered his neighbor when he was underage. And that's always been a concern for us that if this case were actually to go up on appeal, the issues would be scrutinized very carefully," said acting Prosecutor Douglas Chin.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/104472059.html

I was like, , this 'kid' brutally murders his nieghbor, after a long period of harrassment and criminal activity, to the victim and the public.
 
He still gets a chance at parole?!  Hope we can get CCW BEFORE this a$$hole gets out.

Quote from: tonsofguns on October 05, 2010, 04:50:38 AM

Maybe 2A can make a sister site, call it 'conceal carry Hawaii' or something, link it to this site of course, and post up some info for others to look at.

It's funny you say that. I'm not done with it but...
www.hawaiiccw.com
Just something I was working on. I have got a ways to go with it, but in general this was my idea. I will be redoing the whole theme here soon, just gotta find the right one. Only been playing with the wordpress for about 15 hours or so in duration.  Also have a facebook, twitter, myspace, ect ect done for the same name.  I thought about linking the forums to here, but haven't asked yet. If admins would allow I would just direct forums here, but I wanted some sort of site we could put relevant information, news, etc. about guns, laws, court cases and the like.

Also, in all of my understanding (and the complaint I drafted), you can still hit the Chief of Police in the US 1983 actions. He's not immune if the policy is constitutional, but he makes it unconstitutional. (Which is the case here on island.)

Looks good so far Funtimes!  I like the idea of linking back to 2Ahawaii for the forums.   Ideally we would want only one major forums to serve as the rallying grounds for our pro-2A movement instead of having a string of small forums scattered through out the internet.  The information is consolidated and it's less hassle for members not having jump from forum to forum, and when the legislature session begins again in January, it'll be much easier to get everyone on the same page.   

Has it been discussed that maybe we should put flyers up at KHSC and pass out brochures to raise awareness? These brochures can also be put in all the local gunshops. It's one thing to create a forum but it's another to get people to go to it so we could also include the website address on the flyers and brochures. We could brainstorm and discuss what info would be pertinent to the cause and I could create a layout  Then we could just make mass copies at Kinko's.

To be honest, when I bought my first firearm 6 weeks ago, I was not aware of any of these 2A issues. Now I feel like there is a sense of urgency surrounding these issues. I am not well versed in law and politics but I'll do what I can to help 

I would love to have fliers put up at KHSC and all the gun shops. Would anyone know about how we could go about doing that? Any requirements?

If admins would allow I would just direct forums here, but I wanted some sort of site we could put relevant information, news, etc. about guns, laws, court cases and the like.

Sure you can link here for the forums.

Copy places are expensive! Would have to know someone to get a closer to cost rate.  On a laser printer with ink / paper its like 3 cents a page instead of like 7-10 cents a page at a copy place.

Thanks 2a, will add the link soon.. I am still browing themes and stuff and also learning wordpress from scratch.

Speaking from the point of view of a Follower, is there a real organized movement? Is Funtimes spearheading it? Will there be schedules, discussions, assigned tasks (i.e. everyone go apply for a Hawaii CCW), etc? I just figured if it gets to the stage where there's flyers there must be something solid by then.

I would love to have fliers put up at KHSC and all the gun shops. Would anyone know about how we could go about doing that? Any requirements?

KHSC has those bulletin boards and there are no "rules" or restrictions about what can be placed on them that I have ever seen...that being the case, you should be able to just tack up the flyers. On the other hand, I can see the range master getting a little PO'd if he thinks "we" are "attacking" him with the flyers.
 
As for the gun shops, just go in and ask to speak to the boss, shoever that might be. Ask if you can post a flyer in the store and if you can leave a few interested folks could take.

Quote from: tonsofguns on October 05, 2010, 04:50:38 AM

Maybe 2A can make a sister site, call it 'conceal carry Hawaii' or something, link it to this site of course, and post up some info for others to look at.

It's funny you say that. I'm not done with it but...

www.hawaiiccw.com

Just something I was working on. I have got a ways to go with it, but in general this was my idea. I will be redoing the whole theme here soon, just gotta find the right one. Only been playing with the wordpress for about 15 hours or so in duration.  Also have a facebook, twitter, myspace, ect ect done for the same name.  I thought about linking the forums to here, but haven't asked yet. If admins would allow I would just direct forums here, but I wanted some sort of site we could put relevant information, news, etc. about guns, laws, court cases and the like.


Also, in all of my understanding (and the complaint I drafted), you can still hit the Chief of Police in the US 1983 actions. He's not immune if the policy is constitutional, but he makes it unconstitutional. (Which is the case here on island.)

Hey the blog looks pretty slick!  I like it, very clean and simple.  The information needs to be easy to navigate and find.   Given there is not a whole lot on there yet, you are definitely starting in the right place I think.  Great job, thanks for doing this Funtimes.  Keep it up.