Moving to Oahu from CA (Read 4872 times)

macsak

Re: Moving to Oahu from CA
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2024, 05:00:52 PM »
only enforced as a lesser included infraction if used in a crime
 
That's not exactly how it works here.

Rifle mags for which there is no pistol capable of using the same mags -- and having over 10 rd capacity -- are legal.

They made that part of the law unnecessarily complicated. 

Letter of the law:  AR mags over 10 rd size are banned, because AR pistols exist.  But, since semi-auto AR pistols are prohibited here, there's no legal way to have an AR semi-auto rifle and an AR semi-auto pistol share the same >10rd mag. So, that specific case is not enforced here AFAIK.

However, if you have a carbine rifle that uses Glock 9mm mags, those are definitley limited to 10rds.

macsak

Re: Moving to Oahu from CA
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2024, 05:02:21 PM »
you can have more than 10 round glock mags as long as you own a legal rifle that uses the mags and do not insert them in a pistol...

That's not exactly how it works here.

Rifle mags for which there is no pistol capable of using the same mags -- and having over 10 rd capacity -- are legal.

They made that part of the law unnecessarily complicated. 

Letter of the law:  AR mags over 10 rd size are banned, because AR pistols exist.  But, since semi-auto AR pistols are prohibited here, there's no legal way to have an AR semi-auto rifle and an AR semi-auto pistol share the same >10rd mag.  So, that specific case is not enforced here AFAIK.

However, if you have a carbine rifle that uses Glock 9mm mags, those are definitley limited to 10rds.

changemyoil66

Re: Moving to Oahu from CA
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2024, 05:39:43 PM »
That's not exactly how it works here.

Rifle mags for which there is no pistol capable of using the same mags -- and having over 10 rd capacity -- are legal.

They made that part of the law unnecessarily complicated. 

Letter of the law:  AR mags over 10 rd size are banned, because AR pistols exist.  But, since semi-auto AR pistols are prohibited here, there's no legal way to have an AR semi-auto rifle and an AR semi-auto pistol share the same >10rd mag.  So, that specific case is not enforced here AFAIK.

However, if you have a carbine rifle that uses Glock 9mm mags, those are definitley limited to 10rds.

The HRS defines what an "assault pistol" is. And because of that, the HRS only says "fits into a pistol" and not fits into a firearm or fits into an assault pistol.  Which is why they try to ban the rifle mags every few years and delete the word "pistol" and replace it with the word "firearm" . So whether the pmag fits into an AR pistol, is irrelevant.

Rifle mags are legal.

changemyoil66

Re: Moving to Oahu from CA
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2024, 05:40:30 PM »
So my handguns are limited to 10 rounds but my rifle mags can have >10 rounds until a law changes and allows semi-auto AR pistols?

Yes, or if the law changes to all firearm mags.

changemyoil66

Re: Moving to Oahu from CA
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2024, 05:41:33 PM »
you can have more than 10 round glock mags as long as you own a legal rifle that uses the mags and do not insert them in a pistol...

having a pistol mag alone would be a misdemeanor and not a felony until it's inserted into a pistol.  But with the new law, a firearm misdemeanor also takes away your 2A right for 20 years.  Too bad no many cared to testify against this new law.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Moving to Oahu from CA
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2024, 08:50:45 PM »
Quote
§134-8  Ownership, etc., of automatic firearms, silencers, etc., prohibited; penalties.

...

(c)  The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of use with a pistol is prohibited.  This subsection shall not apply to magazines originally designed to accept more than ten rounds of ammunition which have been modified to accept no more than ten rounds and which are not capable of being readily restored to a capacity of more than ten rounds.

     (d)  Any person violating subsection (a) or (b) shall be guilty of a class C felony and shall be imprisoned for a term of five years without probation.  Any person violating subsection (c) shall be guilty of a misdemeanor except when a detachable magazine prohibited under this section is possessed while inserted into a pistol in which case the person shall be guilty of a class C felony. [L 1988, c 275, pt of §2; am L 1989, c 261, §6 and c 263, §4; am L 1992, c 286, §§3, 4]

I can't find "as long as you own a legal rifle that uses the mags and do not insert them in a pistol" anywhere.

My understanding has always been "designed for or capable of use in a pistol" is the key, not whether you actually own a pistol that accepts the same mags as your long gun.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: Moving to Oahu from CA
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2024, 09:26:45 PM »
point taken
let me modify my answer then
also not enforced unless used in a crime as a lesser included offense...

I can't find "as long as you own a legal rifle that uses the mags and do not insert them in a pistol" anywhere.

My understanding has always been "designed for or capable of use in a pistol" is the key, not whether you actually own a pistol that accepts the same mags as your long gun.

changemyoil66

Re: Moving to Oahu from CA
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2024, 08:04:07 AM »
I can't find "as long as you own a legal rifle that uses the mags and do not insert them in a pistol" anywhere.

My understanding has always been "designed for or capable of use in a pistol" is the key, not whether you actually own a pistol that accepts the same mags as your long gun.

Hi has a separate definition as to what an "assault pistol" is. So what you highlighted doesn't state "assault pistol" at all. It should state "fits into a pistol and/or assault pistol" or "fits into a firearm".

Which is why when they try to ban rifle mags, they have deleted the word "pistol" and replaced it with the word "firearm". If said mags are already illegal, why do they try to ban them ever few years?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Moving to Oahu from CA
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2024, 09:52:36 AM »
Hi has a separate definition as to what an "assault pistol" is. So what you highlighted doesn't state "assault pistol" at all. It should state "fits into a pistol and/or assault pistol" or "fits into a firearm".

Which is why when they try to ban rifle mags, they have deleted the word "pistol" and replaced it with the word "firearm". If said mags are already illegal, why do they try to ban them ever few years?

"Pistol" is a category with a specific set of characteristics.

"Assault pistol" incorporates the same characteristics as a pistol but add additional ones, making it a sub-category of pistol.  So, "pistol" is sufficient.  What i will grant is that the term pistol only applies to "assault pistol" if someone leaves the action as semi-auto.  If that's disabled to make it hrs134 compliant, then it no longer qualifies as either an assault pistol or a pistol -- by definition.  it's now a single-shot handgun.   :crazy:

They replaced "pistol" with "firearms" because they originally created a loophole for >10rd mags.  That loophole is ambiguous, arbitrary and confusing, which is why it's rarely if ever enforced as the primary charge.

I think they are proposing the change to make the magazine limitation uniform, realizing the way it is now makes the law difficult to apply.  The assault pistol issue is the best example of how difficult it can be.  If they'd left assault pistols alone and allowed them here, them there would be no question, based on the rifle/pistol mag sharing criteria, any AR rifle mags over 10 rds would be banned.  Banning assault pistols muddied the water by essentially taking them out of the equation -- there are no semi-auto AR pistols with removable mags allowed.  Hence, the effect is to allow AR mags to use >10rds mags based on deductive reasoning.

This highlights a major issue with the laws here.  You have to be charged with a gun-related crime in order to find out how a judge or jury will interpret the law.  Until then, there's no official read on what the law intends nor means -- the two are not always in sync.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw