Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation? (Read 21708 times)

Bunker

Re: Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2012, 06:27:00 PM »
There are all kinds of factors that go into pay for each respective PD but they are entitled for pay for hours worked at the junior level, court time too. Many senior detectives go above and beyond without compensation...they are dedicated and committed to resolve and to the victims families, in most cases. Also each city has their own budgetary issues to contend with, which unfortunately involves what value politicians place on public safety. Some cities with huge crime problems are simply broke.

TeamMidori

Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2012, 06:30:06 PM »
Firemen are heroes. They help and save people.

Cops are out there diligently protecting us from the criminals so they can't get us. They are out there preventing crime. We need more of them.

Go HPD!!!

Bunker

Re: Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2012, 06:37:47 PM »
Firemen are heroes. They help and save people.

Cops are out there diligently protecting us from the criminals so they can't get us. They are out there preventing crime. We need more of them.

Go HPD!!!

Agree...everyone wants a cop or fireman when it affects their world. I really could care less what they make...they deserve it. First responders and our military have and continue to earn their pay when it matters.

Water

Re: Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2012, 07:40:11 PM »
Colt808 is right.  i know a few cops and their job may be easy at times but hard just as equally.  my college teacher was an ex cop an he would share some of his encounters.  it may have been fluffed, i dont kno, but it sounds like they go thru a lot.  if you think its easy, join HPD so see how its like encountering these criminals and crazy ppl everyday.  i think its the ppl who hate cops are the ones who get ticketed or arrested by them a lot.  the law is the law and you break it, you risk it.  by speaking with my police friends, as long as you are cooperative, calm, and respectful, you are most likely going to get the best experience out of them.  when you start talking back is when you get bad experiences.  dont try to out smart them either.  they do this on a daily basis for a living.  most of the time they are right but occasionally make mistakes.  when i get pulled over for stupid traffic violations, i risk eating it.  i dont drop names or anything.  plus all my police friends tell me that they aint gonna tell another policeman what to do bc they aint there and dont know how it went down.  i know what i did wrong so i man up.  try watch the show 'Cops' once in a while.  they tell me this is what they do what the public eye dont see, including in this state.  that is true reality TV.  dont get me wrong... i dont like police either, bc they can ruin my day, but i have a little more respect for them after being friends with some.

Bunker

Re: Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2012, 08:02:40 PM »
don't get me wrong... i dont like police either, bc they can ruin my day, but i have a little more respect for them after being friends with some.

Ok, you personally dislike police officers for the reason you mentioned but I can tell you, many, many are diehard gun advocates, gun owners/collectors and support gun rights, not to mention the public safety aspect. Sorry if I seem a little defensive but I come from a law enforcement family and I have numerous LE personal friends.

keoni008

Re: Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2012, 08:51:54 PM »
WOW, whats with all the LEO bashing? Everyone talks shit until they need HPD's help and or any other 1st responders! Bumbye dey learn!

Bunker

Re: Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2012, 08:55:01 PM »
WOW, whats with all the LEO bashing? Everyone talks shit until they need HPD's help and or any other 1st responders! Bumbye dey learn!

Amen! :thumbsup:

xer 21

Re: Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2012, 09:01:53 PM »
WOW, whats with all the LEO bashing? Everyone talks shit until they need HPD's help and or any other 1st responders! Bumbye dey learn!
im not bashing.  just saying, someone said the pay sucked, and i personally dont think it does when you compare what some of their other options were.

keoni008

Re: Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2012, 09:29:45 PM »
im not bashing.  just saying, someone said the pay sucked, and i personally dont think it does when you compare what some of their other options were.
I dont think anyone can put a price tag on them putting their life on the line every single day 24/7 365 days a year.

Kingkeoni

Re: Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2012, 10:05:36 PM »
Cops are out there diligently protecting us from the criminals so they can't get us. They are out there preventing crime. We need more of them.

Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

Bunker

Re: Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2012, 10:29:20 PM »
You're stereotyping the 1% of the corrupt and dirtbag law enforcement in our nation. Even the military has their 1%, that's why we have UCMJ. Not a fair assessment of the LE community as a whole. Do you really believe that the vast majority fall into the category you are implying? Not sure of the point you're trying to make?

Kingkeoni

Re: Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2012, 10:42:39 PM »
You're stereotyping the 1% of the corrupt and dirtbag law enforcement in our nation. Even the military has their 1%, that's why we have UCMJ. Not a fair assessment of the LE community as a whole. Do you really believe that the vast majority fall into the category you are implying? Not sure of the point you're trying to make?

Absolutely not.

I believe 99% of police officers are legitimately wanting to protect and to serve.

I think 99% of them are committed to upholding the law and protecting the people in their communities from harm.

Like any other profession or endeavor or hobby though, there's good and bad.

I'm sure 99% of all gun owners are great people but there's the people you read about on the news.

It's the 1% that make the headlines.

It's the 1% what make lawmakers want to strip our 2nd amendment rights away.

This conversation started about how badly police officers are paid.

Half my family works in law enforcement.

They've all bought homes, put their kids through school and lived a relatively good life.

Police officers will probably never become millionaires through police work but its a good honest living that pays pretty darn well.

« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 10:52:32 PM by Kingkeoni »
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

Bunker

Re: Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2012, 10:50:47 PM »
Absolutely not.

I believe 99% of police officers are legitimately wanting to protect and to serve.

I think 99% of them are committed to upholding the law and protecting the people in their communities from harm.

Like any other profession or endeavor or hobby though, there's good and bad.

I'm sure 99% of all gun owners are great people but there's the people you read about on the news.

It's the 1% that make the headlines.

It's the 1% what make lawmakers want to strip our 2nd amendment rights away.

This conversation started about how badly police officers are paid.

Half my family works in law enforcement.

They've all bought homes, put their kiss through school and lived a relatively good life.

Police officers will probably never become millionaires through police work but its a good honest living that pays pretty darn well.

Ok, I thought so too....I think I know you well enough to know where you stand. I'm in total agreement. I just cringe when I see the 1% incidents, and people draw conclusions about the community as a whole, which is far from reality, and it happens.

Colt808

Re: Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2012, 04:13:09 AM »
Elaborate. What expenses do HPD officers incur that the department doesn't pay for?
I'm not sure if you're serious and really want to know or just trying to bait a response...

I'll just keep it basic and hopefully you'll get the idea.
Financial expenses: Well, not everything is issued, so officers get an annual clothing/equipment allowance. Thinking "Ooh more money..."? No, it's barely enough and most officers can burn through it just on dry cleaning. Should they damage their uniform? They need to get it professionally mended (if still serviceable) but many just replace out of pocket to meet department standards. Even then, the majority of officers have several sets of uniforms that they bought themselves. It's NOT cheap. I know there are a bunch of other things that HPD (and most other departments) does not pay for, but going into it would be pointless...all one needs to understand is that it falls upon the officer to pay.

I believe the personal expense part is self explanatory. Most officers have pretty jacked up home lives, which explains the high divorce rate. Whether it be never being around or, as Bunker mentioned, living with crap normal folk would never understand...it all takes a toll that $4800/mo will never make up for.

Quote
Any hours worked over 40 pay overtime
Says who? You're obviously still thinking they work an 8 hr x 5 day week. They don't. With administrative time before and after assigned shifts? An officer can put in 10-12 hours or more a day. They don't punch a clock, so the whole anything over 40 pays overtime is B.S., that's NOT how it works. In a lot of ways, they're like any salaried worker: the shift ends when the work is done. But unlike normal salaried employees, they don't take work home and can't put off doing reports until the next day. It could be anything from doing required reports to transporting someone they have in custody...the job ends when the job is done. All part of their shift, no overtime.

Sure they get overtime, but that's a whole process in and of itself. They have to fill out a form and submit for approval...and it's not always approved. Things like giving a deposition, appearing in court, or being called in to cover a shift? Sure, approved. But working an extra 4 or 5 hours directing traffic because some idiot wrecked on H-1? Not so much, because it's part of the job (shift ends when the work is done).

These are just simple examples, but I think the easiest way to understand would be to stop trying to apply civilian ideas of how things work.
Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it. ~Thomas Paine


And I still see stupid people.

Colt808

Re: Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2012, 04:28:56 AM »
You're stereotyping the 1% of the corrupt and dirtbag law enforcement in our nation. Even the military has their 1%, that's why we have UCMJ. Not a fair assessment of the LE community as a whole. Do you really believe that the vast majority fall into the category you are implying? Not sure of the point you're trying to make?
A lot of the stereotyping is based on big city law enforcement from the 70's to the 90's. Most departments have made great strides to clean things up to a point where I'd say it's way less than 1%. We should just keep in mind that we're talking about HPD, not the LAPD or even NYPD. We've never had any Rodney King or "broomstick" incidents around here. As for the military? Well it's more like 100% when talking about combat forces...not corrupt, just dirtbags because that's what's required to do what needs to be done.
Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it. ~Thomas Paine


And I still see stupid people.

flaboy808

Re: Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #35 on: December 25, 2012, 03:19:45 PM »
A lot of the stereotyping is based on big city law enforcement from the 70's to the 90's. Most departments have made great strides to clean things up to a point where I'd say it's way less than 1%. We should just keep in mind that we're talking about HPD, not the LAPD or even NYPD. We've never had any Rodney King or "broomstick" incidents around here. As for the military? Well it's more like 100% when talking about combat forces...not corrupt, just dirtbags because that's what's required to do what needs to be done.

"We've never had any Rodney King or "broomstick" incidents around here."

That you know of.

Also, you're saying a 100% of combat forces are dirtbags?  Every infantry Marine and Army soldier, the fighter pilot, and even the Navy gunner?  Might as well throw in the Coast Guard too then huh?  Hey, I know... you said 100% of combat forces so you might as well throw in the HPD swat teams since "combat forces" means "Those forces whose primary missions are to participate in combat."

The Supreme Court has ruled that you, as an individual, have no right to protection by the police. Their only obligation is to protect "society".

Lifer

Re: Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #36 on: December 25, 2012, 03:42:55 PM »
As for the military? Well it's more like 100% when talking about combat forces...not corrupt, just dirtbags because that's what's required to do what needs to be done.

I seriously hope you have misspoken on this and rephrase.

To call "combat forces" dirtbags for what I have done and what many others continue to do for you and yours is probably one of the most degrading things I've heard.
So, Special Forces, SEALS, infantryman, are dirtbags.....?  Because true men chose one of the most honorable professions in existence and some sacrifice all, we get the privilege to be called dirtbags....
It doesn't even have to be combat forces that engage in combat anymore, I've seen my fair share of mechanics and clerks killed in Iraq, so are they dirtbags too ?

Do we or the combat arms do the "dirty" jobs, well yes, I will concede on that.

It seems obvious you are PD ( maybe prior service) and I commend you for it.
 I have a question for you;  what would you consider your fellow law enforcement brothers with whom I have participated in counter-drug operates with? Combat forces have a particular skill set and train with law enforcement more than you know. So, are the officers I've served with dirtbags?

Below is one of your own quotes-
.
I'm not sure if you're serious and really want to know or just trying to bait a response........

These are just simple examples, but I think the easiest way to understand would be to stop trying to apply civilian ideas of how things work.

As you said yourself, DON'T EVER apply civilian ideas to HOW THINGS WORK.

As stated in the beginning, I really hope calling "combat forces" dirtbags was not your intent.  :grrr:
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 07:44:06 PM by Lifer »

xer 21

Re: Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #37 on: December 25, 2012, 04:39:14 PM »
The armed forces is no more an honorable profession than any other.  Honor is earned by the individual, not given because they hold a certain job.  There are plenty of people who have done things to contradict the idea that the job is honorable and vice versa.  Its the person, not the job.


And while his wording was poor, I get his point.  Who make better fighters?  The respectful, polite guys, or the aggressive, confident, pugnacious types that many would characterize as douchebags?

You can't ignore that fact.  Dirtbags?  No.  But you can't deny that the forces attract aggressive, very confident (some might be arrogant even) and pugnacious people.  Its what the job is. 
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 04:45:42 PM by xer 21 »

Lifer

Re: Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #38 on: December 25, 2012, 05:14:02 PM »
The armed forces is no more an honorable profession than any other.  Honor is earned by the individual, not given because they hold a certain job.  There are plenty of people who have done things to contradict the idea that the job is honorable and vice versa.  Its the person, not the job.


And while his wording was poor, I get his point.  Who make better fighters?  The respectful, polite guys, or the aggressive, confident, pugnacious types that many would characterize as douchebags?

You can't ignore that fact.  Dirtbags?  No.  But you can't deny that the forces attract aggressive, very confident (some might be arrogant even) and pugnacious people.  Its what the job is.

I agree with some of your points; honor is earned and it is not given (especially by their profession).
I do, along with the majority of the public hold certain professions in high regard; mlitary, police, firefighter, teacher to name a few. I get into this arguement with my liberal relatives all the time; am I better than them, absolutely not. Do I point out that the public recognizes our sacrifices and we have a different life, hell yes!
Like I tell my accountant cousin, when Lowes gives a 10% discount for being a CPA , give me a call.
Again, military members are not better, but soooo different.

Are the young 19 year old infantryman arrogant and pugnacious, again absolutely. Then again, how many 19 year olds aren't arrogant and pugnacious??? Do they stay that way, not really.
One of my Special Forces friends is probably one of the most intelligent, gentle, caring and well liked man I know and has a high kill count at the same time. Is he a douchebag??

Agree or not;  are combat arms guys arrogant assholes, yeah ok... Are we dirtbags or douchebags, hell no....  no more than you are !

I get what you're saying, but just like you had to point out a few things. Gotta love the debate, now its time to go play with Playdoh with my daughter O0

Jl808

Why does Honolulu, HI come in #2 for most police officers in the nation?
« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2012, 05:53:29 PM »
The armed forces is no more an honorable profession than any other.  Honor is earned by the individual, not given because they hold a certain job.  There are plenty of people who have done things to contradict the idea that the job is honorable and vice versa.  Its the person, not the job.


And while his wording was poor, I get his point.  Who make better fighters?  The respectful, polite guys, or the aggressive, confident, pugnacious types that many would characterize as douchebags?

You can't ignore that fact.  Dirtbags?  No.  But you can't deny that the forces attract aggressive, very confident (some might be arrogant even) and pugnacious people.  Its what the job is.

Hmm not sure it's something that can be generalized.

Some of the classiest people I know are military. Yes my friends are confident, intelligent, smart and capable.

Very polite and respectful too... "dirtbags" just doesn't match.  I speak for the guys I know and I'm sure there are exceptions somewhere.






I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.