We really are living in a Banana Republic (Read 4083 times)

QUIETShooter

Re: We really are living in a Banana Republic
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2024, 12:58:27 PM »
Wouldn't that mean he can't be president?  Which means he won't be able to help the nation.  I'm pretty sure for local politics, you also cannot have a criminal record.  So he won't even be able to help Florida or what ever state he lives in.

You can be a criminal.  Just cannot have a criminal record.  Just ask any politician hiding under the rocks at the state capitol on Beretania St.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: We really are living in a Banana Republic
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2024, 01:29:54 PM »
You can be a criminal.  Just cannot have a criminal record.  Just ask any politician hiding under the rocks at the state capitol on Beretania St.

Senator Ted Kennedy was unavailable for comment.

Kennedy was guilty of vehicular homicide.  Later he ran in 1980 for the Democrat Party's presidential nomination.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

hvybarrels

Re: We really are living in a Banana Republic
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2024, 04:16:08 PM »
Wouldn't that mean he can't be president?  Which means he won't be able to help the nation.  I'm pretty sure for local politics, you also cannot have a criminal record. So he won't even be able to help Florida or what ever state he lives in.

No rule against having a convicted felon for president. It would be hilarious to see Secret Service set up shop inside Rikers. It's not a closed possibility by any means, at least until he pardons himself.
The F in Communism stands for Food

Sodie

Re: We really are living in a Banana Republic
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2024, 05:47:06 PM »
No rule against having a convicted felon for president. It would be hilarious to see Secret Service set up shop inside Rikers. It's not a closed possibility by any means, at least until he pardons himself.

I don’t think he can pardon himself from a state conviction.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: We really are living in a Banana Republic
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2024, 05:59:48 PM »
I don’t think he can pardon himself from a state conviction.

It's complicated.

There's nothing in the Constitution that prevents a sitting President from issuing himself a pardon against a federal charge/conviction.  More likely, the subsequent president would be the one to issue the pardon, like when Ford pardoned Nixon.

As for state charges, almost all states have laws that prevent the state from pressing charges for the same crime either convicted or forgiven at the federal level -- i.e. double jeopardy protection.

That implies that the presidential pardon has to be issued for the federal crimes prior to the state convicting for the same crimes.

https://thepoliticswatcher.com/pages/articles/white-house/2023/7/20/president-pardon-state-crime-examining-legal-implications
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: We really are living in a Banana Republic
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2024, 06:27:52 PM »
No rule against having a convicted felon for president. It would be hilarious to see Secret Service set up shop inside Rikers. It's not a closed possibility by any means, at least until he pardons himself.
Secret service met with the jail yesterday.

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Sodie

Re: We really are living in a Banana Republic
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2024, 05:11:33 PM »
It's complicated.

There's nothing in the Constitution that prevents a sitting President from issuing himself a pardon against a federal charge/conviction.  More likely, the subsequent president would be the one to issue the pardon, like when Ford pardoned Nixon.

As for state charges, almost all states have laws that prevent the state from pressing charges for the same crime either convicted or forgiven at the federal level -- i.e. double jeopardy protection.

That implies that the presidential pardon has to be issued for the federal crimes prior to the state convicting for the same crimes.

https://thepoliticswatcher.com/pages/articles/white-house/2023/7/20/president-pardon-state-crime-examining-legal-implications

From the FAQ of the Department of Justice Office of the Pardon Attorney:

“Does the President have authority to grant clemency for a state conviction?
No. The President’s clemency power is conferred by Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 of the Constitution of the United States, which provides: “The President . . . shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.” Thus, the President’s authority to grant clemency is limited to federal offenses and offenses prosecuted by the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia in the name of the United States in the D.C. Superior Court. An offense that violates a state law is not an offense against the United States.”

Flapp_Jackson

Re: We really are living in a Banana Republic
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2024, 05:40:40 PM »
From the FAQ of the Department of Justice Office of the Pardon Attorney:

“Does the President have authority to grant clemency for a state conviction?
No. The President’s clemency power is conferred by Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 of the Constitution of the United States, which provides: “The President . . . shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.” Thus, the President’s authority to grant clemency is limited to federal offenses and offenses prosecuted by the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia in the name of the United States in the D.C. Superior Court. An offense that violates a state law is not an offense against the United States.”

Coincides with what I posted. 

For the Presidential Pardon to shield someone from state offenses, the feds would need to charge the person and a Presidential pardon issued for that. 

Double jeopardy would then offer an "indirect pardon" for the same state offense depending on the state's laws.  Some states will allow charging an offender if the federal charges don't lead to a conviction.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

hvybarrels

Re: We really are living in a Banana Republic
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2024, 06:18:30 PM »
The F in Communism stands for Food