Consensus seems to be that when shipping a long gun through the post office, there is no need to tell them what you are shipping.

But a minority out there says it's a felony to not "declare" you're shipping a firearm.


This is assuming a legal-length long gun going from non-FFL individual to either themselves in another state or to an FFL in another state.

What sayeth the wise men? Is there anything Hawaii-specific when it comes to this?

I have never declared a boxed-up firearm at the post office, but I want to make sure I'm not missing anything that would compel me to do so.

no one here does anything illegal...

Consensus seems to be that when shipping a long gun through the post office, there is no need to tell them what you are shipping.

But a minority out there says it's a felony to not "declare" you're shipping a firearm.


This is assuming a legal-length long gun going from non-FFL individual to either themselves in another state or to an FFL in another state.

What sayeth the wise men? Is there anything Hawaii-specific when it comes to this?

I have never declared a boxed-up firearm at the post office, but I want to make sure I'm not missing anything that would compel me to do so.

It'd be pretty hard to use the post office to mail a long gun to an FFL illegally, considering it isn't illegal to declare or to not declare. Correct?

Given the specific requirements for signature, insurance and other services, it only makes sense to declare you are shipping a firearm -- so you can be sure you're getting all the services and features needed to legally ship the long gun.

Also, IIRC, you're asked if the package contains certain items, and i believe weapons is one of the choices.

If you say "no" to their question for a firearm shipment, you are probably violating federal law by lying.

What the ATF says:

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another state.
A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of their own state or to a
licensee in any state.

The U.S. Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and
that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed
on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a
handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A); 27 CFR 478.31]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-through-us-postal-service

What the USPS says:

The United States Postal Service recently revised their rules regarding “Hazardous,
Restricted, and Perishable Mail.” While most changes were done in order to correct
erroneous references and provide greater clarity to existing language, anyone shipping
firearms should know that the following language has been added:

“All regulated firearms must be mailed using a USPS product or Extra Service that
provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.”

Also worth noting is a change to the requirements for mailing rifles and shotguns
(Section 432.3), which now states that these items must include “Signature Confirmation
service or insured mail service (for more than $500) requiring a signature at delivery.”
That insured mail service amount is up from $200.

While these changes to the firearm requirements are fairly minor, this update serves
as a good opportunity to remind shippers about USPS content restrictions.

https://blog.stamps.com/usps-updates-standards-for-shipping-firearms/

432.3 Rifles and Shotguns
Except under 431.2, unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Mailers must comply
with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws.
The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by
written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing.

The following conditions also apply:

    a. Subject to state, territory, or district regulations, rifles and shotguns may be mailed without
        restriction when intended for delivery within the same state of mailing. These items must:

        1.  Bear a “Return Service Requested” endorsement.
        2.  Be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.

    b.  A rifle or shotgun owned by a non-FFL may be mailed outside the owner‘s state of residence
         by the owner to himself or herself, in care of another person in the other state where he or she
         intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. These mailpieces must:

        1.  Be addressed to the owner.
        2.  Include the “in the care of” endorsement immediately preceding the name of the applicable temporary custodian.
        3.  Be opened by the rifle or shotgun owner only.
        4.  Be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.

    c.  Mailing of rifles and shotguns between licensed FFL dealers, manufacturers, or importers are not restricted.
        The Postal Service recommends that these items be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service
        that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.

    d.  Rifles and shotguns may be mailed by a non-FFL owner domestically to a FFL dealer, manufacturer, or importer
         in any state. These items must be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking
         and signature capture at delivery.

    e.  Except as described in 432.3a, licensed curio and relic collectors may mail firearms meeting the definition of
curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 domestically to licensed FFL curio and relic collectors in any state. These items
must be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.

     f.  Firearms meeting the definition of a rifle or shotgun under 431.4 which are certified by the curator of a municipal,
         state, or federal museum, which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest, may be accepted for
         mailing without restriction when mailed between governmental museums.

     g.  Air guns (see 431.6) that do not fall within the definition of firearms under 431.1a are mailable. A shipment
         containing an air gun with a muzzle velocity of 400 or more feet per second (fps) must include an adult signature
         service under DMM 503.8. Mailers must additionally comply with all applicable state and local regulations.

Next time I go into the post office I'll take a picture of their question on the pad, I don't believe it mentions weapons.

The language you highlighted in red says they MAY check to see if it is unloaded. That seems to be the crux of the argument for those who say you must declare firearms. But there is ambiguity there; if you don't tell them what it is, how would they know to ask? I gather by policy or law they're not allowed to ask specifically what is in a parcel. I believe the boiler plate question is whether the parcel contains anything "liquid, fragile, perishable, or potentially hazardous."


Reasons you wouldn't mention that you're shipping a firearm would be to avoid an untrained clerk freaking out and demanding your driver's license, firearm permit, the firing pin be removed, requiring you to fill out a 1508 form as if you were an FFL, making you measure barrel length, stealing your gun, etc.

Next time I go into the post office I'll take a picture of their question on the pad, I don't believe it mentions weapons.

The language you highlighted in red says they MAY check to see if it is unloaded. That seems to be the crux of the argument for those who say you must declare firearms. But there is ambiguity there; if you don't tell them what it is, how would they know to ask? I gather by policy or law they're not allowed to ask specifically what is in a parcel. I believe the boiler plate question is whether the parcel contains anything "liquid, fragile, perishable, or potentially hazardous."


Reasons you wouldn't mention that you're shipping a firearm would be to avoid an untrained clerk freaking out and demanding your driver's license, firearm permit, the firing pin be removed, requiring you to fill out a 1508 form as if you were an FFL, making you measure barrel length, stealing your gun, etc.

 

As I said, there are requirements for the types of services you must include with your postage.  Failing to let them know you are shipping a firearm prevents them from assisting you with the proper services.

You might think you understand what all those requirements are, but they are subject to change, plus the descriptions online are not always as clear as they should be.

Seems like there may be two questions here:

1) Am I legally required to declare to the post office that I’m mailing a firearm?

and

2) Is it a good idea to declare to the post office that I’m mailing a firearm?

I haven’t found anything to indicate the answer to question 1 would be “yes.”  As for question 2, I guess that depends on how much you trust the clerk.  Personally, I’d send it registered (most secure USPS service) and insured, and leave it at that.

They ask for Hazmat items.
https://www.usps.com/ship/shipping-restrictions.htm

They ask for Hazmat items.
https://www.usps.com/ship/shipping-restrictions.htm

A firearm isn’t HAZMAT.

Called my post office today to get their opinion. The clerk I got didn't know anything, kept asking somebody over her shoulder.

She seemed to be reading the same websites that everybody else has access to.
First she said it had to go registered mail.
Then she said it had to say "Return Service Requested".
Then she said it had to be addressed to myself and "in care of" somebody else.
Then she finally got to the relevant part (mailing interstate to a FFL, as opposed to intrastate or interstate to yourself) and said it just had to have tracking and signature required.

They did say they wanted me to declare it and open the package so they could look down the chamber. (I would be impressed if they know how to do that in a competent manner.)

But they also said that it was cool to ship in a Pelican case and didn't need to be in a cardboard box, so that would save some dimensional money.


Again, the main reason to not declare is to avoid having to spin the roulette wheel of assumption and deal with the resulting confusion or wrong answers.

Another question is insurance.  If you insure the package and it gets lost.  Will they be able to deny the claim due to no declaration?

Called my post office today to get their opinion. The clerk I got didn't know anything, kept asking somebody over her shoulder.

She seemed to be reading the same websites that everybody else has access to.
First she said it had to go registered mail.
Then she said it had to say "Return Service Requested".
Then she said it had to be addressed to myself and "in care of" somebody else.
Then she finally got to the relevant part (mailing interstate to a FFL, as opposed to intrastate or interstate to yourself) and said it just had to have tracking and signature required.

They did say they wanted me to declare it and open the package so they could look down the chamber. (I would be impressed if they know how to do that in a competent manner.)

But they also said that it was cool to ship in a Pelican case and didn't need to be in a cardboard box, so that would save some dimensional money.


Again, the main reason to not declare is to avoid having to spin the roulette wheel of assumption and deal with the resulting confusion or wrong answers.

Ever hear of X-Ray scanners?

So what are postal inspectors finding when they do scrutinize a package‘s contents?
In 2021, the most frequently seized items fell into a few main categories:

Prohibited Item               Number of Seizures   Percentage
Illegal Narcotics & Drugs                89,707         41.3%
Hazardous Materials                      68,420         31.5%
Counterfeit Goods & Pirated COPYRIGHT    40,224         18.5%
Firearms & Ammunition                    10,416          4.8%
Alcohol & Tobacco                         4,343          2.0%
Other (currency, wildlife, etc.)          3,991          1.8%

https://www.marketingscoop.com/consumer/does-usps-scan-packages

That's a total of 217,101 seizures in 2021.  That's out of 7.578 billion packages shipped that year.

There's no way to know how many of those 7+ billion packages contained contraband and was not identified or seized.

So, you're basically rolling the dice that the post office won't scan your package and see what you're shipping.

Most of the postal system is automated with scanners, OCR equipment, etc.  So, don't assume if the counter worker accepts it that it won't be seized later.  If that happens, you'll potentially face federal statute violations.

Some 217,101 people in 2021 thought they could fool the system too.

Why would they confiscate a long gun from the mail?

It is legal to ship a long gun.

It's not like they put an "approved gun" label on it after you declare it. There is no special "I'm shipping a gun" form to fill out. It's just another totally legal package once they stamp the postage, provided it's going to an FFL with tracking and adult signature required.

I would assume that your stat is composed almost entirely of hand guns and ammunition.


I don't see why insurance would matter either. If I said it was $3,000 worth of sporting equipment, and the package was lost... Do they even ask what exactly was in the package at that time? It was $3,000 worth of sporting equipment.

Why would they confiscate a long gun from the mail?

It is legal to ship a long gun.

It's not like they put an "approved gun" label on it after you declare it. There is no special "I'm shipping a gun" form to fill out. It's just another totally legal package once they stamp the postage, provided it's going to an FFL with tracking and adult signature required.

I would assume that your stat is composed almost entirely of hand guns and ammunition.

I don't see why insurance would matter either. If I said it was $3,000 worth of sporting equipment, and the package was lost... Do they even ask what exactly was in the package at that time? It was $3,000 worth of sporting equipment.

Why would you assume something like that with no evidence to back it up?  My logic tells me most people know they can't ship handguns via USPS unless they are an FFL.  Therefore it's more likely people are improperly shipping long guns which are "legal to ship."

It is legal to ship a long gun.

Not if you don't follow their shipping requirements. 

If you don't declare it, you're risking them finding an undeclared firearm.

Insurance claims matter because all insurance policies include exclusions.  Although a firearm isn't HAZMAT, firearms are included in the USPS policies under that category.  If you don't let the post office know what you are shipping, you won't know all the services you need to include per their policies.

Publication 52 - Hazardous, Restricted, and Perishable Mail
4.43 -- Restricted matter: Firearms
https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/welcome.htm
https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_008.htm

When you file a claim, the Postmaster will require receipts or other documentation detailing the market value at the time of loss, as well as photos or listings that describe it.  You can't mail a glass picture frame and then claim it was a $10,000 piece of rare art when it arrives smashed to bits no matter how much you insured it for.  That's called insurance fraud.

You do realize there's more than one postage rate, right?  You said it's like any "totally legal package once they stamp the postage."  Do you know what postage rate to use?  If you don't use the right one, it violates USPS regulations.  That's makes it NOT like any  totally legal package.

Why would you assume something like that with no evidence to back it up?  My logic tells me most people know they can't ship handguns via USPS unless they are an FFL.  Therefore it's more likely people are improperly shipping long guns which are "legal to ship."

It is legal to ship a long gun.

Not if you don't follow their shipping requirements. 

If you don't declare it, you're risking them finding an undeclared firearm.

Insurance claims matter because all insurance policies include exclusions.  Although a firearm isn't HAZMAT, firearms are included in the USPS policies under that category.  If you don't let the post office know what you are shipping, you won't know all the services you need to include per their policies.

Publication 52 - Hazardous, Restricted, and Perishable Mail
4.43 -- Restricted matter: Firearms
https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/welcome.htm
https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_008.htm

When you file a claim, the Postmaster will require receipts or other documentation detailing the market value at the time of loss, as well as photos or listings that describe it.  You can't mail a glass picture frame and then claim it was a $10,000 piece of rare art when it arrives smashed to bits no matter how much you insured it for.  That's called insurance fraud.

You do realize there's more than one postage rate, right?  You said it's like any "totally legal package once they stamp the postage."  Do you know what postage rate to use?  If you don't use the right one, it violates USPS regulations.  That's makes it NOT like any  totally legal package.

Or you could read 432.3 ( https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm?_gl=1*he5ofo*_gcl_au*MTQ3MzIwMDI5NS4xNzE0ODg1MDUw*_ga*MTA2NjQ4NTY0Mi4xNzE0ODg1MDUw*_ga_3NXP3C8S9V*MTcxNDg5NDkxMi4yLjAuMTcxNDg5NDkxMi4wLjAuMA..), which contains the requirements for mailing a long gun.  To wit: it must be addressed to the owner, include a “in the care of” statement immediately followed by the name of the temporary custodian, and be mailed using a class of mail that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.

No need to declare it preemptively.  If they scan it and see that it contains a long gun, but it meets those requirements, they have no reason to seize.

If you insure it and there’s a loss, you’ll have to prove value when you file your claim… but still no requirement to declare preemptively.

Or you could read 432.3 ( https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm?_gl=1*he5ofo*_gcl_au*MTQ3MzIwMDI5NS4xNzE0ODg1MDUw*_ga*MTA2NjQ4NTY0Mi4xNzE0ODg1MDUw*_ga_3NXP3C8S9V*MTcxNDg5NDkxMi4yLjAuMTcxNDg5NDkxMi4wLjAuMA..), which contains the requirements for mailing a long gun.  To wit: it must be addressed to the owner, include a “in the care of” statement immediately followed by the name of the temporary custodian, and be mailed using a class of mail that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.

No need to declare it preemptively.  If they scan it and see that it contains a long gun, but it meets those requirements, they have no reason to seize.

If you insure it and there’s a loss, you’ll have to prove value when you file your claim… but still no requirement to declare preemptively.

Wrong.

"it must be addressed to the owner, include a “in the care of” statement immediately followed by the name of the temporary custodian"

That only applies if you are shipping a long gun to yourself at another's address, as in you will travel there for training, hunting, relocating, etc.

In most cases, it will be addressed to an FFL in the destination state.

Also, it must be shipped Priority Mail Express.  That's more expensive than standard Priority Mail.

https://support.shippingeasy.com/hc/en-us/articles/4407009526299-Shipping-Firearms-Rules-and-Restrictions-USPS-UPS-FedEx-Overview

Wrong.

"it must be addressed to the owner, include a “in the care of” statement immediately followed by the name of the temporary custodian"

That only applies if you are shipping a long gun to yourself at another's address, as in you will travel there for training, hunting, relocating, etc.

In most cases, it will be addressed to an FFL in the destination state.

Also, it must be shipped Priority Mail Express.  That's more expensive than standard Priority Mail.

https://support.shippingeasy.com/hc/en-us/articles/4407009526299-Shipping-Firearms-Rules-and-Restrictions-USPS-UPS-FedEx-Overview

USPS disagrees with shippingeasy.com.  They require, and I quote,  that the long gun “Be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.”  ATF recommends Registered Mail (most secure).

Yes, you’re correct that if you mail it to an FFL, you don’t need the “in care of” statement.  How does that apply to the question “do you have to declare the firearm to the postal service?”

USPS disagrees with shippingeasy.com.  They require, and I quote,  that the long gun “Be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.”  ATF recommends Registered Mail (most secure).

Yes, you’re correct that if you mail it to an FFL, you don’t need the “in care of” statement.  How does that apply to the question “do you have to declare the firearm to the postal service?”

At some point, you're going to have to go try it yourself.  Trying to use google to prove whether or not even the USPS knows the answer is futile.

You pay your money, and you take your chance.

So I declared I had a rifle this time. I called ahead and they asked me to declare it so I figured why not.

There was a clerk there who had some firearms familiarity, he took it into the back and checked the chamber. It was a big sloppy 50 cal so I could hear the bolt open and close. They never opened it at the counter, which is probably a good way of doing things.
He said he had never shipped a firearm before. I said, "you've never shipped a firearm that you knew about before". 

Attached is the language used for the shipping disclaimer and how they shipped it. In practice, declaring it saved me quite a bit of money because I wasn't obliged to put it in a cardboard box, which would've added a few inches and pounds.

They shipped it Priority Mail, I paid the standard Priority Mail rate with signature confirmation. They never asked me if I wanted to put additional insurance on it, which was probably an oversight. The receipt doesn't have any special "this was a gun" line item, nor did they put any special labelling on the case. Just another package as soon as it was in the system.   

It worked out. FFL sent it back to my doorstep a couple weeks later. 


Unless somebody presents some significant evidence, I'm pretty convinced that there is no compelling reason or obligation to declare you're shipping a long gun.
Afterwards I asked the clerks there if they wanted me to declare, if I had to declare and if that was the proper process... They said yes, because they had to check the chamber. But they also told me three times that I had to put "IN CARE OF" on the package, which I repeatedly corrected "no, I think that's only if shipping intrastate", and which they then agreed upon... So they don't seem to have any training or knowledge beyond the same on-line website language that we are operating off of.

The "In Care Of" labeling is also for shipping to yourself.

E.G.  If you are going hunting or to a class, you can ship it addressed to yourself and In Care Of whoever lives at the destination address receiving the item on your behalf.