But hitting with some of your shot is more effective than missing all of your shot. I got exposed once from about 100+ feet away. It burned but I could still see alright however I was coughing and that would make it difficult to give chase.

If you're carrying a can of spray that is supposed to be effective at beyond 12 feet, you're probably in a law enforcement uniform and thinking about crowd control.

So, if you can't hit the target at 7-12 feet, you might want to learn self-administered first aid.

OC does have a small risk of permanent scratches to the cornea from the grit. Don't know how that compares to the bang stick though

Google.

I’m sure there’s a legal way to test tasers… specifically on you! 

Having done CS, OC, and Taser, I'd rather get tasered...as long as I don't fall on concrete.  It doesn't hurt and you're back to normal when the power is off.  CS is a garden hose of snot for five minutes.  OC burns bad for about 30 minutes.

Having done CS, OC, and Taser, I'd rather get tasered...as long as I don't fall on concrete.  It doesn't hurt and you're back to normal when the power is off.  CS is a garden hose of snot for five minutes.  OC burns bad for about 30 minutes.

And you still can feel the effects as they diminish for the rest of the day.  I mean not super uncomfortable 5 hours later, but it's noticeable that you aren't back to your normal state.

Stream is the best general purpose type over fog, spray/cone.  It's goes father, less blowback, and limits exposure to bystanders.  You don't want to use a fogger on the bus or in a room with yourself and bystanders.  A spray wouldn't be ideal either.  Gel can go further and is a lower risk for bystanders, but isn't as effective and needs more time to take effect.

OC has a very small chance to be lethal to some people.  Those with heart conditions and breathing impairments.  One of the trainers in Hawaii had a student die from exposure due to not stating a heart condition when required to.

A stream could pierce the eye if used too close, think it's within a foot.  But that scenario shouldn't happen unless you're in a really bad situation where it would be justified.

Having done CS, OC, and Taser, I'd rather get tasered...as long as I don't fall on concrete.  It doesn't hurt and you're back to normal when the power is off.  CS is a garden hose of snot for five minutes.  OC burns bad for about 30 minutes.

I've been "collaterally" caught by CS.  In the riots in Seattle.  Thought we were ok in the higher levels a parking garage when the deployed the CS.  Well, the breeze brought it our way 

And you still can feel the effects as they diminish for the rest of the day.  I mean not super uncomfortable 5 hours later, but it's noticeable that you aren't back to your normal state.

you're tough. . . promise we'll not let you faceplant

If you're carrying a can of spray that is supposed to be effective at beyond 12 feet, you're probably in a law enforcement uniform and thinking about crowd control.

So, if you can't hit the target at 7-12 feet, you might want to learn self-administered first aid.

Fumbling in the dark with a small can it wouldn't be hard to mistake which angle you have it facing and miss completely, that's why a fogger has an advantage. A few degrees off with a fogger and you still hit them with some spray. The fogger is going to float in the air a little longer too so if the attacker closes his mouth to the stream he doesn't breathe it in but if he walks through the cloud he will have to take a breath sooner or later and then he will start coughing.

Each type has its advantages and disadvantages.

Fumbling in the dark with a small can it wouldn't be hard to mistake which angle you have it facing and miss completely, that's why a fogger has an advantage. A few degrees off with a fogger and you still hit them with some spray. The fogger is going to float in the air a little longer too so if the attacker closes his mouth to the stream he doesn't breathe it in but if he walks through the cloud he will have to take a breath sooner or later and then he will start coughing.

Each type has its advantages and disadvantages.

Show me a fogger that's effective when pointed in a direction other than towards the threat.

Show me a fogger that's effective when pointed in a direction other than towards the threat.

The fogger is a wider spray so which means you don't have to be as perfect with your aim.

The fogger is a wider spray so which means you don't have to be as perfect with your aim.

So, what's the effective arc for a pepper "fogger" at 7-12 feet?

Then compare that to the effective arc at 7-12 feet for pepper spray?

If you don't know the numbers, then you can't possible be arguing objectively.

So, what's the effective arc for a pepper "fogger" at 7-12 feet?

Then compare that to the effective arc at 7-12 feet for pepper spray?

If you don't know the numbers, then you can't possible be arguing objectively.

Now you are just trolling. You might as well argue buckshot doesn't have a wider spread than a 5.56 

Now you are just trolling. You might as well argue buckshot doesn't have a wider spread than a 5.56 

You believe 7-12 feet is a distance that's easy to miss?

Show me where I mentioned "spread".  We're talking about effectiveness. 

You believe 7-12 feet is a distance that's easy to miss?

Show me where I mentioned "spread".  We're talking about effectiveness.

People miss with a gun at 7-12 feet all the time.

Any amount of pepper spray is more effective than no pepper spray. If someone is attacking me I will take giving them a breathing problem even if I don't get them in the eyes over a complete miss.

I could see someone missing initially at 12 feet with a stream.  Most people have never used the spray before, and some probably don't know how to operate it.  Add in the eyes are a small target and it gets harder under stress.

After a second I'm sure people will get the spray on target.  But it would give the attacker time to block it.

I could see someone missing initially at 12 feet with a stream.  Most people have never used the spray before, and some probably don't know how to operate it.  Add in the eyes are a small target and it gets harder under stress.

After a second I'm sure people will get the spray on target.  But it would give the attacker time to block it.

The small ones only have about 5 seconds of spray so even more so you have to make sure you don't miss.

1 has to remember that each types spray is also different. The spray types that fit in ones pocket or purse has a much smaller spray pattern compared to the "foggers" that are used for crowd control.  The ones you can fit in your pocket aren't going to hit anything from 12 feet away.  Prob about 4 feet at best.  Where as a stream type gel, you could reach 12 feet (point can up), but hitting in the eyes/face is another story.

you get da schmall one...

The small ones only have about 5 seconds of spray so even more so you have to make sure you don't miss.

The small ones only have about 5 seconds of spray so even more so you have to make sure you don't miss.

Hypothetically, using common sense, would you not agree that "about 5 seconds of spray" is going to be more effective
against an attacker at about 8-10 feet than "about 5 seconds of spray" at 8-10 feet in a fog type dispersal?

If you're off target, you have 5 seconds to adjust the stream and be on target.  With a fog, you're sending the spray out in a wide pattern, meaning you have much less concentration in whatever "fog" reached the intended target.

I'd rather have 5 seconds of concentrated spray than 5 seconds of widely dispersed "fog".  i don't think I'd miss badly enough that i can't hit the attacker within 1-2 seconds of it being released.

Hypothetically, using common sense, would you not agree that "about 5 seconds of spray" is going to be more effective
against an attacker at about 8-10 feet than "about 5 seconds of spray" at 8-10 feet in a fog type dispersal?

If you're off target, you have 5 seconds to adjust the stream and be on target.  With a fog, you're sending the spray out in a wide pattern, meaning you have much less concentration in whatever "fog" reached the intended target.

I'd rather have 5 seconds of concentrated spray than 5 seconds of widely dispersed "fog".  i don't think I'd miss badly enough that i can't hit the attacker within 1-2 seconds of it being released.

Maybe if the wind were against you.
The fogger is going to do a better job of saturating the air meaning it is going to be breathed in. The stream is great if you hit them in the eyes or right above the eyes where it will run into the eyes but if they close their mouth they aren't going to breathe it in much.

A fogger will still get more than enough to cause someone to have trouble seeing at close distances. At a certain point, more does not translate to better effect, your eyes are going to be on fire and shut either way.

In the end there is no right or wrong, just drawbacks and benefits of each type. I would recommend a fogger in most instances but you are free to choose the one you like best. I would only recommend a stream indoors or in windy areas.

In the end there is no right or wrong, just drawbacks and benefits of each type. I would recommend a fogger in most instances but you are free to choose the one you like best. I would only recommend a stream indoors or in windy areas.

Carrying a fogger for a civilian isn't economical. It's too bulky.  I mean, even most HPD doesn't carry it on their duty belts.  I've mainly seen them carry it on a drop leg and that was for specific events, not daily patrol.

Having a fogger in a 500 sq foot condo also may be an issue. The 12 feet is hard to apply due to lack of space.