trump guilty on all 34 counts (Read 12829 times)

hvybarrels

Re: trump guilty on all 34 counts
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2024, 08:41:21 PM »
Just saying what I think the law in New York is.  Not making any value judgement.

I think New York law is whatever the corrupt justice system over there says it is
The F in Communism stands for Food

macsak

Re: trump guilty on all 34 counts
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2024, 08:43:18 PM »
mostly correct, but not "generally accurate"
the bolded line is incorrect
if 1 person says no to B1 B2 and B3, trump would be innocent on that one count
the statute of limitations has already expired on the misdemeanors, so he couldn't be found guilty of the misdemeanor
that's one of the reasons it took so long for this case to come up, they needed to have the handpicked DA and handpicked judge to make it work

I believe it’s both.

Falsifying business records (crime A) in NY is a misdemeanor, unless you do it with the intent to further another crime (crime B), in which case it’s a felony.

The People in this case offered three possible crime Bs: crime B1, crime B2, and crime B3.

For any given count, to reach a guilty felony verdict, all 12 jurors have to agree that 1) the defendant committed crime A, and that the defendant did so with the intent to further any one of crimes B1, B2, or B3.  They don’t all have to agree on WHICH crime B the defendant intended to further, just that he intended to further one of them. 

As I understand it, 11 jurors could say “he committed crime A with the intent to further crime B1,” and one juror could say “he committed crime A to further crime B2” and get a felony guilty verdict. 

If 11 say he committed crime A in order to further crime B1, and one juror says he committed crime A but NOT with intent to further any of the crime Bs, the best they could do is a misdemeanor conviction.

Based on what I read in the jury instructions, that’s a bit of a simplification but generally accurate.

Sodie

Re: trump guilty on all 34 counts
« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2024, 08:56:47 PM »
mostly correct, but not "generally accurate"
the bolded line is incorrect
if 1 person says no to B1 B2 and B3, trump would be innocent on that one count
the statute of limitations has already expired on the misdemeanors, so he couldn't be found guilty of the misdemeanor
that's one of the reasons it took so long for this case to come up, they needed to have the handpicked DA and handpicked judge to make it work

Good point about the statute of limitations.  I’d forgotten about that.

macsak

Re: trump guilty on all 34 counts
« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2024, 09:05:34 PM »
so you were wrong?

Good point about the statute of limitations.  I’d forgotten about that.

QUIETShooter

Re: trump guilty on all 34 counts
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2024, 09:33:00 PM »
Witch hunt.  Plain and simple.

Again, for the umpteenth time.......Obi-Wan to Darth Vader:

"If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can ever imagine......"
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Sodie

Re: trump guilty on all 34 counts
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2024, 05:18:10 PM »
so you were wrong?

Yes, I was wrong.  I had forgotten about the statute of limitations in this case, which takes the misdemeanor charge off the table.

Are you implying I don’t admit when I’m wrong?

macsak

Re: trump guilty on all 34 counts
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2024, 08:01:48 PM »
please show me where i was implying you don't admit you are wrong...

Yes, I was wrong.  I had forgotten about the statute of limitations in this case, which takes the misdemeanor charge off the table.

Are you implying I don’t admit when I’m wrong?

Sodie

Re: trump guilty on all 34 counts
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2024, 08:11:40 PM »
please show me where i was implying you don't admit you are wrong...

I didn’t know if you were implying I don’t admit when I’m wrong.  Hence the question. 

“Please show me where I said you’re implying I don’t admit when I’m wrong.”  :crazy:

hvybarrels

Re: trump guilty on all 34 counts
« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2024, 11:17:56 PM »
Whatever their plan was, it's not working.
Raised almost 50 mil in 24 hours and would probably done way more if Stripe hadn't shut down his account again.


The F in Communism stands for Food

Jaco808

Re: trump guilty on all 34 counts
« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2024, 09:04:12 AM »
More money for Trump to pay all his legal fees and his own companies.  Polling says he lost overall support with his conviction.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-verdict-makes-significant-number-republicans-less-likely-support-him-poll

Republicans need to pick another candidate.   Nicky would destroy biden in the election. 

macsak

Re: trump guilty on all 34 counts
« Reply #50 on: June 02, 2024, 09:26:46 AM »
sure, jan...

More money for Trump to pay all his legal fees and his own companies.  Polling says he lost overall support with his conviction.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-verdict-makes-significant-number-republicans-less-likely-support-him-poll

Republicans need to pick another candidate.   Nicky would destroy biden in the election.

macsak

Re: trump guilty on all 34 counts
« Reply #51 on: June 02, 2024, 11:07:32 AM »
wrong...

Misdemeanor conviction was not possible because it was charged as a felony.  If all 12 said he falsified records and believed it was not to further a crime the jury would be hung and the case could be tried again with  a different jury.

In this case a jury consisting of 12 of his peers agreed that Trump is guilty according to the facts.

ren

Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: trump guilty on all 34 counts
« Reply #53 on: June 02, 2024, 11:21:12 AM »
Republicans need to dump the extremist views and get back to working in the best interest of all the citizens. Currently nothing gets done. Even when given their demands, they refuse to pass legislation for political reasons.

What extremist views?

Are you talking about defunding the police?  How about DEI?  Gender-affirming care in prisons and the military?  Banning all semi-auto firearms?  Waving Palestinian flags on the House floor?  Yelling "Hands up! Don't shoot!" during Senate and House sessions?  Nominating candidates to the judiciary who refuse to define what a woman is?

i'm curious.  Seems like the extremists are the ones on the other side.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

ren

Re: trump guilty on all 34 counts
« Reply #54 on: June 02, 2024, 11:47:59 AM »
What extremist views?

Are you talking about defunding the police?  How about DEI?  Gender-affirming care in prisons and the military?  Banning all semi-auto firearms?  Waving Palestinian flags on the House floor?  Yelling "Hands up! Don't shoot!" during Senate and House sessions?  Nominating candidates to the judiciary who refuse to define what a woman is?

i'm curious.  Seems like the extremists are the ones on the other side.

 rhater was thinking about the Democrat's extremist, racist views.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/06/democratic-party-racist-history-mona-charen/

Al Gore’s reframing of the relevant history is the story of the Democratic party in microcosm. The party’s history is pockmarked with racism and terror. The Democrats were the party of slavery, black codes, Jim Crow, and that miserable terrorist excrescence, the Ku Klux Klan. Republicans were the party of Lincoln, Reconstruction, anti-lynching laws, and the civil rights acts of 1875, 1957, 1960, and 1964. Were all Republicans models of rectitude on racial matters? Hardly. Were they a heck of a lot better than the Democrats? Without question.

As recently as 2010, the Senate’s president pro tempore was former Ku Klux Klan Exalted Cyclops Robert Byrd (D., W.Va.). Rather than acknowledge their sorry history, modern Democrats have rewritten it.

    The Democrats have been sedulously rewriting history for decades.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-democratic-partys-sordid-past-on-race-roosevelt-wilson-klan-e59b190d

In “The Democrats and Anti-Semitism” (Wonder Land, Nov. 2), Daniel Henninger examines the rupture in the Democratic Party that has pit pro-Israel liberals against an ascendant progressive wing that accuses Israel of ethnic cleansing and genocide. He provides a brief history lesson on the Nazis and the Holocaust that began 90 years ago and implies that members of the party under Franklin D. Roosevelt then would be appalled by today’s anti-Semitic views.

But let’s not give the Democratic Party of the 1930s a pass on anti-Semitism. Jonah Goldberg’s 2008 book “Liberal Fascism” is a useful primer for understanding the thin line that separates fascists from the far left.




Deeds Not Words

macsak

Re: trump guilty on all 34 counts
« Reply #55 on: June 02, 2024, 01:54:10 PM »
well, not all polling says that


More money for Trump to pay all his legal fees and his own companies.  Polling says he lost overall support with his conviction.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-verdict-makes-significant-number-republicans-less-likely-support-him-poll

Republicans need to pick another candidate.   Nicky would destroy biden in the election.

QUIETShooter

Re: trump guilty on all 34 counts
« Reply #56 on: June 02, 2024, 01:57:22 PM »
To say this is a witch hunt is to say that you don't believe in the Constitution, our laws or our system of justice. Do you really hate the system on which our country was formed?

I believe in the United States Constitution.  I believe in the laws of Justice in our country.

That's why I said this is a witch hunt.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: trump guilty on all 34 counts
« Reply #57 on: June 02, 2024, 03:17:58 PM »
To say this is a witch hunt is to say that you don't believe in the Constitution, our laws or our system of justice. Do you really hate the system on which our country was formed?

Is it your belief everyone in government jobs follow State and federal Constitutions and Statutes all the time without corruption, bias, mistakes, or incompetence?

It's possible to believe in the principles of our government and simultaneously distrust those presently running it.


The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

ren

Deeds Not Words

changemyoil66

Re: trump guilty on all 34 counts
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2024, 08:40:12 AM »
To say this is a witch hunt is to say that you don't believe in the Constitution, our laws or our system of justice. Do you really hate the system on which our country was formed?

Someone doesn't know what a "witch hunt" is. But instead trying to circumvent the issue by stating something else. 

The question is do you believe in the constitution and our laws or our system of justice is blind/fair?  This is rhetorical, as I know your answer.