This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later. (Read 5088 times)

QUIETShooter

This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« on: July 10, 2024, 06:22:17 AM »
Hawaii loves to copycat Commiefornia doctrine.

Interesting that the "revolving door" concept only applies to repeat offenders, not law abiding citizens.

Stolen car. 3 individuals enter private property.  One with replica gun, one with crowbar.

What did the criminal justice system of commifornia think they were?  Jehovah's Witnesses?

Defendant is an old man held in jail according to the report because he refuses to make a statement. The gun he used was reportedly stolen.

Aside from the stolen firearm, this could be me.

Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

ren

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2024, 07:27:18 AM »
Hawaii will take it several steps further to include a sympathizing media campaign to paint the suspect as a "family person" who was trying to provide for their 5-7 children. The suspect was only trying to steal your aina desecrating brand new 200tree leefted Yota..and you when shoot 'em instead of going up and up. Not fair. The suspect had no real gun.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sacramento-city-attorney-reportedly-threatened-fine-target-store-reporting-theft-crimes
« Last Edit: July 10, 2024, 07:48:05 AM by ren »
Deeds Not Words

eyeeatingfish

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2024, 12:26:06 PM »
This is pretty standard, if police think you killed someone you usually get arrested. The police then investigate more and take their findings to the prosecutors who decide whether to prosecute. The question of whether the use of force is justified cannot usually be easily determined by an initial assessment of what happened and requires a greater level of investigation and evidence.

In this case specifically, the fact he had a stolen gun is enough to keep him in custody until the prosecutors make a decision. Even if the shooting were plainly justified they could still hold him for the gun charge while taking the case to the prosecutors.

oldfart

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2024, 04:09:44 PM »
I would say there is enough stoopid here to keep cops and lawyers employed for a long time.  :rofl:
What, Me Worry?

changemyoil66

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2024, 05:35:04 PM »
. The question of whether the use of force is justified cannot usually be easily determined by an initial assessment of what happened and requires a greater level of investigation and evidence.



I can think of a a bunch of scenarios'. Ego and politics cloud cops judgement.

eyeeatingfish

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2024, 03:19:18 PM »
I can think of a a bunch of scenarios'. Ego and politics cloud cops judgement.

If the situation was clearly one of self defense I could see a decision being justifiable to not arrest him at the scene. If there were a dozen witnesses and surveillance cameras that clearly show the person exercised a legal use of force then it could be clear but in this case it is not going to be as clear.

I don't really see ego or politics playing a role here, at least not any more than any other decision whether to arrest or charge someone.

obm

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2024, 11:57:16 AM »
This is pretty standard, if police think you killed someone you usually get arrested.

It's standard Honolulu PD policy to automatically arrest anyone who discharges a firearm outside of an approved shooting range or hunting area.  Even police officers who discharge their firearm in the line of duty...they also get arrested automatically.  The only difference is that a police officer arrested a line of duty shooting is released under their on recognizance, whereas a civilian has to make bail.

 

tim808

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2024, 02:33:50 PM »
I didn’t watch the video

Why would someone want to use a stolen gun for home defense. 

I’m dumb as a brick but I still see that as a bad idea.

Use a stolen car, get caught, pay the price.   Same for a stolen gun.

Everyone pretty much got what was coming for poor decisions

Basically a BG with a stolen gun shooting other BG’s

Flapp_Jackson

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2024, 02:53:30 PM »
I didn’t watch the video

Why would someone want to use a stolen gun for home defense. 

I’m dumb as a brick but I still see that as a bad idea.

Use a stolen car, get caught, pay the price.   Same for a stolen gun.

Everyone pretty much got what was coming for poor decisions

Basically a BG with a stolen gun shooting other BG’s

I can think of at least two reasons:

-- Can't buy a firearm legally (prohibited), or

-- Stole it themselves or was given the gun/bought it cheap without going through the legal process.$200 gun off the books, or $400 gun plus cost of safety class to get it legally.

Some people assume they will never need to use it or get caught, so why bother?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2024, 04:26:41 PM »
It's standard Honolulu PD policy to automatically arrest anyone who discharges a firearm outside of an approved shooting range or hunting area.  Even police officers who discharge their firearm in the line of duty...they also get arrested automatically.  The only difference is that a police officer arrested a line of duty shooting is released under their on recognizance, whereas a civilian has to make bail.

This is not the case.

macsak

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2024, 04:47:40 PM »

tim808

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2024, 08:16:31 AM »
If I couldn’t legally own a firearm (ie a felon), I would get either a paintball gun and use balls with a metal core

Or an airgun.  I heard some are used for hunting.  I think there are semi auto versions

Or maybe a black powder gun??  I don’t know annything about them…like how fast to load….

Or a full auto BB gun??   Remember the ones at the carnival / state fair….I wouldn’t want to get shot by one.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2024, 08:40:37 AM by tim808 »

Flapp_Jackson

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2024, 09:35:55 AM »
If I couldn’t legally own a firearm (ie a felon), I would get either a paintball gun and use balls with a metal core

Or an airgun.  I heard some are used for hunting.  I think there are semi auto versions

Or maybe a black powder gun??  I don’t know annything about them…like how fast to load….

Or a full auto BB gun??   Remember the ones at the carnival / state fair….I wouldn’t want to get shot by one.

So, you'd feel confident using any of the above?  Would they be a match against someone else with a Glock?

Or against someone who's stronger than you using a weapon -- knife, pipe, hammer?

I'd expect someone already looking to hurt me would just get more pissed off if I started shooting BBs at them. I've heard of people being shot with a .22 pocket gun and getting really mad -- just before they beat the guy shooting them half to death.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2024, 11:21:31 PM »
which part?

Officers aren't arrested automatically when they discharge their firearm in the line of duty.
Really nothing he said is true.

obm

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2024, 01:12:12 PM »
Officers aren't arrested automatically when they discharge their firearm in the line of duty.
Really nothing he said is true.

I was told this by a recently retired HPD officer around 2008.  It's not like officers are handcuffed and take to jail like civilians.  He said once officer is booked, they take his firearm for evidence and immediately issue them a new one.  I don't see any reason for that retired police officer to lie about something like that.

 

eyeeatingfish

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2024, 10:43:14 PM »
I was told this by a recently retired HPD officer around 2008.  It's not like officers are handcuffed and take to jail like civilians.  He said once officer is booked, they take his firearm for evidence and immediately issue them a new one.  I don't see any reason for that retired police officer to lie about something like that.

I think something was lost in communication. The officer is not booked but they do take his gun as evidence at the scene and will later be given a new gun.

tim808

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2024, 03:14:43 PM »
I do own firearms but they are all locked away. 

Only a flashlight/pepper spray/machete are readily accessible

Granted they probably won’t stop a guy with gun. 

I read somewhere that if you own a firearm, the statistics are greater that a friend/relative/spouse/neighbor will get you vs a stranger. 

I never did research on that statistic cause we know that statistics can be slanted (guns kill xx amount of people…..yet it doesn’t note that yy of that amount were suicides)

But it seemed somewhat realistic to me.  I come from a small island so there are few strangers, all the shootings/killings I recall were passion and/or alcohol related.  Yes, a small island may not be the norm.

This is just anecdotal stuff:
I’ve lived in Ewa/Kapolei for about 13 years and in PC for about 21.  I don’t watch the news but I don’t recall any forced entries.  There is no public housing in both areas so I think that makes a difference.  We do have robberies in PC….often of older people that can’t hear

I’m more worried about getting killed by a drunk driver or someone talking/texting while driving….or electrocuted at work….. than someone shooting me.

A coworker has lived in the area by McKinley HS for about 35 years and the only shooting I can recall was a drive by shooting on a couple walking along the street….i think the girl died…it was a few years ago.   Coworker has more than pepper spray on his note stand

My other coworker lives on Kam IV rd near KPT….about 15-20years.  There have been a few times when HPD have raided homes.  But no shootings I can recall.  I think he has nothing….not even pepper spray.

My cousins lived on Democrat St.  The shops have pau Hana after work.  Gritty place.  3 of 4 cousins got hooked on ice.   Rough place but no shootings I can recall.   I’m kind of surprised about that.  I sort of assumed that they and lot of others in the area had stolen guns.

I guess if I lived in a not so great place, I would try to move.  If I couldn’t move, then I might consider a readily accessible firearm.

lol.  I looked up neighborhoodscout.com….my area is one of the most unsafe…. 7 or 8/10 in PC.  Our area includes the shopping center which has homeless….that probably messes up the statistics.

Our area in Kapolei is also unsafe….like 7 or 8/10.  I don’t recall there ever being a shooting or forced entry.

Barbers Point and East Kapolei are more unsafe.   I assume it’s because of the homeless.

We have always owned 2 dogs and I don’t watch the news so that probably helps with my outlook (head in the sand perhaps)

USA has the most mass shootings by far.   If I went by that, I would ccw

I get concerned if out late at night.  Don’t want to be certain areas when it’s getting late

The Pupu streets even in the middle of the day is a little sketchy…..groups of kids walking around.  I had to inspect some stuff in the area…it was okay….no one really pays attention to people in work clothes/shoes and PPE’s.  I’d be a little hesitant of leaving X-ring at night….but seems to be ok….haven’t heard any horror stories about people who use at X-ring at night

Palolo housing and Kalihi Valley housing are mellow in the day.  Mostly old people and toddlers in the day.

I feel if I avoid places where the young kids hang around at night,  I’m relatively safe overall from violence.

QUIETShooter

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2024, 03:35:28 PM »
I do own firearms but they are all locked away. 



Same here.  I do have some metal pipes under my computer desk in our living room.

I have a mag flashlight that I can use as a club by my bedstand.

Depending on the situation, the firearms might find their way out of the safe and on my body while at home.  But if we ever find ourselves in a SHTF or WROL situation the firearms will definitely be out and about.

Thinking about getting a handgun safe to install by my computer desk and by my nightstand.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2024, 03:42:31 PM »
I do own firearms but they are all locked away. 

Only a flashlight/pepper spray/machete are readily accessible

Granted they probably won’t stop a guy with gun. 

I read somewhere that if you own a firearm, the statistics are greater that a friend/relative/spouse/neighbor will get you vs a stranger. 

I never did research on that statistic cause we know that statistics can be slanted (guns kill xx amount of people…..yet it doesn’t note that yy of that amount were suicides)

But it seemed somewhat realistic to me.  I come from a small island so there are few strangers, all the shootings/killings I recall were passion and/or alcohol related.  Yes, a small island may not be the norm.

This is just anecdotal stuff:
I’ve lived in Ewa/Kapolei for about 13 years and in PC for about 21.  I don’t watch the news but I don’t recall any forced entries.  There is no public housing in both areas so I think that makes a difference.  We do have robberies in PC….often of older people that can’t hear

I’m more worried about getting killed by a drunk driver or someone talking/texting while driving….or electrocuted at work….. than someone shooting me.

A coworker has lived in the area by McKinley HS for about 35 years and the only shooting I can recall was a drive by shooting on a couple walking along the street….i think the girl died…it was a few years ago.   Coworker has more than pepper spray on his note stand

My other coworker lives on Kam IV rd near KPT….about 15-20years.  There have been a few times when HPD have raided homes.  But no shootings I can recall.  I think he has nothing….not even pepper spray.

My cousins lived on Democrat St.  The shops have pau Hana after work.  Gritty place.  3 of 4 cousins got hooked on ice.   Rough place but no shootings I can recall.   I’m kind of surprised about that.  I sort of assumed that they and lot of others in the area had stolen guns.

I guess if I lived in a not so great place, I would try to move.  If I couldn’t move, then I might consider a readily accessible firearm.

lol.  I looked up neighborhoodscout.com….my area is one of the most unsafe…. 7 or 8/10 in PC.  Our area includes the shopping center which has homeless….that probably messes up the statistics.

Our area in Kapolei is also unsafe….like 7 or 8/10.  I don’t recall there ever being a shooting or forced entry.

Barbers Point and East Kapolei are more unsafe.   I assume it’s because of the homeless.

We have always owned 2 dogs and I don’t watch the news so that probably helps with my outlook (head in the sand perhaps)

USA has the most mass shootings by far.   If I went by that, I would ccw

I get concerned if out late at night.  Don’t want to be certain areas when it’s getting late

The Pupu streets even in the middle of the day is a little sketchy…..groups of kids walking around.  I had to inspect some stuff in the area…it was okay….no one really pays attention to people in work clothes/shoes and PPE’s.  I’d be a little hesitant of leaving X-ring at night….but seems to be ok….haven’t heard any horror stories about people who use at X-ring at night

Palolo housing and Kalihi Valley housing are mellow in the day.  Mostly old people and toddlers in the day.

I feel if I avoid places where the young kids hang around at night,  I’m relatively safe overall from violence.

I'd like to offer a few questions to ponder.

Do you own a fire extinguisher? 
Do you know the odds of needing one? 
Do you know the odds of getting to an extinguishers when you wake up to a fire?

Do you own and carry a spare tire and jack in your vehicles? 
How many times have you needed to use them in the last 20 years?

Do you own any tourniquets?
How many times have you used one?

Do you see the common thread here? 

It's not about how likely you are to need a gun (or any other thing I asked about).  It's about the consequences of not having one if you should ever need one.

Today, home and business defibrillators are selling like hotcakes.  The odds that anyone in your home or at your business will need one is a fraction of a percent.

The real question is this:  when your life is on the line, why would you not want to have the necessary items or tools -- and training -- to save your own life or the lives of others?

Just like cleaning supplies and other poisonous products you store at home, you have to do an assessment of how likely it is a child OR ADULT will accidentally be poisoned.  You wouldn't take a busted package of rat poison and transfer it to an empty sugar decanter without taking precautions.  Even an adult could mistake it for sugar.

You don't put bleach in an empty water bottle without marking it.

For every danger in the home, you try to mitigate that danger.  Locks, locking cabinets, safes, labels, childproof lids or cabinet door latches, shelves or appliance a child can't reach above, ... whatever in your estimation is needed to make it safer.

There have been a couple of studies that paint the picture that guns in the home increases the risk you or someone living with you will be murdered.

What the studies don't account for is the flip-side of the argument.  At least as many, and perhaps as many as 2 million gun owners, successfully defend their lives and the lives of others each year.  That, compared to the 30,000 estimated gun-related deaths each year is to me a big argument for self protection.  But when about 9,000 of those are considered "regular" homicides and accidents, and the others are gang-related or suicides, the gap widens.

Would you rather try to avoid being one of the 9,000 murder statistics, or would you rather be one of the 30,000-2M successful self defense statistics?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

tim808

Re: This is bound to happen here in Hawaii sooner or later.
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2024, 01:12:12 AM »
Maybe later when my son is older.  Or if I get a biometric safe. 

For now, I feel that because my home is off the ground (post/pier), 2 dogs are in the yard and I have pepper spray and a machete.  I have enough layers that will have a criminal either look for lower hanging fruit…. or if they still want to try to enter my home while my dogs are barking…..the pepper spray and machete may help them to reconsider.

Yes, it does not suffice for an attacker that has a gun.  For me, I feel the odds of that situation are low enough that doesn’t warrant the risk of keeping a readily accessible firearm in the house since death by family is 2x more like than death by stranger if a firearm is accessible.

The probability of dying by some type of accident is like 10x more than death by murder

That is I why I’m more worried about a drunk driver and people texting/talking while driving.
(My 5 near death experiences were when a car blew thru a red light at the intersection of kamehameha and Likelike and 4x shooting with moron friends who don’t know how to reload)

I think the average # of homicides in Hawaii is about 30.  Based on statistics…20 are killed by family/friend and 10 are by strangers.  Of the 10 killed by strangers…I’m guessing the bulk are homeless or young people hanging out late at night or drug related homicides.  Maybe 1-2 are from strangers invading and killing home owners

So say 2 murders per year of typical/average homeowners and a population of about 1M on Oahu.   So the chance of murder by a stranger is like 0.000002….or 0.0002%.  And because our home is elevated, protected by dogs and we have some means to protect ourselves….it betters our odds by maybe a factor of 10…..or .00002%

We could improve our odds by keeping an accessible firearm in the home and training….to say 0.0000002%.  But I’m ok with 0.00002% and would rather spend my time and money on health/exercise and my grandson

Homicide is not in the top 10 causes of death for my age group.  I would rather address the top 10 because I feel it would have a greater impact on my longevity than on a cause of death outside the top ten
« Last Edit: July 25, 2024, 01:27:39 AM by tim808 »