women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service? (Read 13533 times)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2024, 02:57:19 PM »
I found the vid I was talking about when I mentioned that some females can do better than holster fumbling lady.

I'd trust her over the current holster fumble lady.

Being better than fumble lady is not exactly the standard.  That's a relative comparison.

How many times did this former agent protect GHW Bush, Clinton, GW Bush or Obama?  That's the test.

In Trump's case, the Secret Service failed.  I would agree it's not a gender issue if the Service only hired Amazon Women above 6 feet tall.

Also, not all threats require presentation of a firearm, particularly around a crowd of innocent people.  Those Amazon women should be able to take down and subdue a nut job who's just trying to run up on stage to make a statement during the protectee's speech.

Standards should be established for the success of the mission, not based simply "at least not as bad as that other person."

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2024, 08:37:06 PM »
I know how someone who's 5' 6" trying to shield a 6' 4" protectee from gunfire using their body will perform.  There's video of it if you need to see it.

We are talking about someone's physical ability to protect the president/other protectee, not whether they have the intestinal fortitude to take a bullet for someone else.

I figured you would know this.

You totally miss my point. You can have a massive 7' agent freeze in an emergency

Flapp_Jackson

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2024, 11:42:19 PM »
You totally miss my point. You can have a massive 7' agent freeze in an emergency

Obviously you're relying on the minority to argue your point whereas standards are meant to apply to everyone.

Have you ever trained in realistic situations to know what to expect and how to react?  Repetition takes the emotion and turns it into a conditioned response.'

"Freeze" could be used to describe someone balled up under a table in the fetal position to someone who takes 2 seconds to register what just happened before they react.  Maybe you need to be more specific about what your point is, since it's not very clear.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2024, 09:39:03 AM »
Obviously you're relying on the minority to argue your point whereas standards are meant to apply to everyone.

Have you ever trained in realistic situations to know what to expect and how to react?  Repetition takes the emotion and turns it into a conditioned response.'

"Freeze" could be used to describe someone balled up under a table in the fetal position to someone who takes 2 seconds to register what just happened before they react.  Maybe you need to be more specific about what your point is, since it's not very clear.

My comment was clearly talking about performing under pressure, not something unchanging such as the height of an agent. Yes, good training helps to reduce people freezing under pressure or going code black but it doesn't eliminate it entirely.

We have no idea whether this agent was trained well and just performed poorly or whether the training was inadequate or if she was a DEI hire, etc. so we should stop making stupid assumptions.

macsak

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2024, 10:00:29 AM »
My comment was clearly talking about performing under pressure, not something unchanging such as the height of an agent. Yes, good training helps to reduce people freezing under pressure or going code black but it doesn't eliminate it entirely.

We have no idea whether this agent was trained well and just performed poorly or whether the training was inadequate or if she was a DEI hire, etc. so we should stop making stupid assumptions.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2024, 11:55:44 AM »
My comment was clearly talking about performing under pressure, not something unchanging such as the height of an agent. Yes, good training helps to reduce people freezing under pressure or going code black but it doesn't eliminate it entirely.

We have no idea whether this agent was trained well and just performed poorly or whether the training was inadequate or if she was a DEI hire, etc. so we should stop making stupid assumptions.

is it your belief that poorly trained Secret Service agents are assigned to protect our top political candidates and officials?

Is it your belief that all DEI hires are unable to perform the duties of an agent assigned to a protection detail?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2024, 11:25:57 AM »
You totally miss my point. You can have a massive 7' agent freeze in an emergency

You missed flapps numbers. Numbers don't lie. But I guess if we use whataboutism, the shorter agent can jump to fill the gap. Or wear 7 inch platform shoes. Or have the protectee constantly bend their knees to be shorter.

changemyoil66

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2024, 11:29:15 AM »
My comment was clearly talking about performing under pressure, not something unchanging such as the height of an agent. Yes, good training helps to reduce people freezing under pressure or going code black but it doesn't eliminate it entirely.

We have no idea whether this agent was trained well and just performed poorly or whether the training was inadequate or if she was a DEI hire, etc. so we should stop making stupid assumptions.

And here's the problem with DEI or any like hiring. People will question if the individual earned their spot, or was it given to them, rules bent or standards lowered.

eyeeatingfish

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2024, 02:36:02 PM »


I wonder if this HSI agents had actual protective roles or whether they were just perimeter security type roles?

If they had active protective rolls then this is terrible administration.

eyeeatingfish

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2024, 02:37:08 PM »
You missed flapps numbers. Numbers don't lie. But I guess if we use whataboutism, the shorter agent can jump to fill the gap. Or wear 7 inch platform shoes. Or have the protectee constantly bend their knees to be shorter.

I was talking about performance under pressure, not height. Obviously taller agents would be preferable to a tall protectee.

You are right that DEI creates a situation where people will question. The problem I am pointing out is that we shouldn't jump to unsupported conclusions. It is fine to ask whether standards were lowered to achieve DEI goals but it is not fine, in my opinion, to assert that any particular agent's performance was due to a lowered standard because that is something we do not know at this point.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2024, 10:41:24 PM by eyeeatingfish »

eyeeatingfish

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2024, 02:38:39 PM »
is it your belief that poorly trained Secret Service agents are assigned to protect our top political candidates and officials?

I have no belief on this because I have no evidence to make a conclusion. A video of an agent performing poorly is not conclusive evidence as to her training level.

Quote
Is it your belief that all DEI hires are unable to perform the duties of an agent assigned to a protection detail?

I don't make such blanket statements.

changemyoil66

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2024, 03:26:15 PM »
I was talking about performance under pressure, not height. Obviously taller agents would be preferable to a tall protectee.

You are right that DEI creates a situation where people will question. The problem I am pointing out is that we shouldn't jump to unsupported questions. It is fine to ask whether standards were lowered to achieve DEI goals but it is not fine, in my opinion, to assert that any particular agent's performance was due to a lowered standard because that is something we do not know at this point.

And at the same time, shorter agents won't be able to reach said height. So why take the gamble?  Eliminate/reduce that variable by having agents the same height, or very close to that of their protectee.  I mean Shaq would give them a hard time.

Well, the director of the SS said that she wants more women to be in the SS. Maybe she held a SS recruit drive and held a huge sign outside on a main road that's travelled to get the word out.  That's possible right?  If this wasn't a DEI hire, then that means the SS is even more incompetent.  At least they can blame "pushing students through and lowering standards" as an excuse.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2024, 04:54:41 PM »
I was talking about performance under pressure, not height. Obviously taller agents would be preferable to a tall protectee.

You are right that DEI creates a situation where people will question. The problem I am pointing out is that we shouldn't jump to unsupported questions. It is fine to ask whether standards were lowered to achieve DEI goals but it is not fine, in my opinion, to assert that any particular agent's performance was due to a lowered standard because that is something we do not know at this point.

I wonder if this HSI agents had actual protective roles or whether they were just perimeter security type roles?

If they had active protective rolls then this is terrible administration.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
UNSUPPORTED QUESTION


What if it wasn't a tragedy but part of a plan?
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
UNSUPPORTED QUESTION
« Last Edit: September 12, 2024, 05:05:18 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2024, 10:39:47 PM »
And at the same time, shorter agents won't be able to reach said height. So why take the gamble?  Eliminate/reduce that variable by having agents the same height, or very close to that of their protectee.  I mean Shaq would give them a hard time.

Well, the director of the SS said that she wants more women to be in the SS. Maybe she held a SS recruit drive and held a huge sign outside on a main road that's travelled to get the word out.  That's possible right?  If this wasn't a DEI hire, then that means the SS is even more incompetent.  At least they can blame "pushing students through and lowering standards" as an excuse.

I am not saying you are wrong about the height, I would certainly prefer tall body guards around me. There are needs for women agents on protection details and women tend to be shorter so a balance would have to be struck on the minimum height. 6' and you will have too few female agents, 5' and too much exposure for the asset.

eyeeatingfish

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2024, 10:40:41 PM »
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
UNSUPPORTED QUESTION

  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
UNSUPPORTED QUESTION

My apologies, that is a typo, I meant unsupported conclusions, not unsupported questions.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2024, 10:42:42 PM »
My apologies, that is a typo, I meant unsupported conclusions, not unsupported questions.

LOL!

Goal post moving is FUN!!
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2024, 01:00:32 PM »
LOL!

Goal post moving is FUN!!

Sorry to deflate your balloon, I know you need it to troll.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2024, 03:11:23 PM »
Sorry to deflate your balloon, I know you need it to troll.

I'm still trying to see how using "question" vs. "conclusion" can be excused as a "typo."

Quote
typographical error
noun
1. A mistake in printing, typesetting, or typing, especially one
caused by striking an incorrect key on a keyboard.

2.  A mistake made during the process of typing, especially
one caused by a slip of the fingers; often shortened to typo.

I don't think I've ever accidentally used an entire word in place of another and called it a "typo."
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2024, 11:03:02 AM »
I'm still trying to see how using "question" vs. "conclusion" can be excused as a "typo."

Then you aren't trying very hard. Of course you have no incentive to try because then it wouldn't give you something to troll with.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: women SHOULDN'T be in Secret Service?
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2024, 11:07:56 AM »
Then you aren't trying very hard. Of course you have no incentive to try because then it wouldn't give you something to troll with.

Another butt hurt, nonsensical, incoherent reply.

 :geekdanc:

Nothing you said supports your false "typo" excuse.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw