Yeah
That was very sad

I think this incident started to make people re-think about animals in captivity and "trained" to do tricks for their entertainment.

Were the animals happy?

I think this incident started to make people re-think about animals in captivity and "trained" to do tricks for their entertainment.

Were the animals happy?

Don't know if happy plays into it as much as how well they were trained and was there something that triggered the animal's flight?

Animals live in the moment.  They aren't making plans for the future, like, "Next chance I get, I'm getting out of this circus!" 

I went to this circus the night before.  After the show, they were giving elephant rides.  1 aunty was yelling at them to "let them sleep already, they worked enough for today".

What's interesting is the picture used often comes with a caption about the cops shooting to death the elephant.  The guy holding the rifle is a civilian as the cops didn't have enough firepower to stop Tyke.  They had to call local hunters to bring their guns.  This was before cell phones or at most the brick phone, which not many people had at the time.  So pager or house call and hope the hunter was either home or can get home quickly.

Cop shows up to your door
"We need to stop an elephant, can I use your big game gun?"

Guy
"No, I want to shoot the elephant"

Cop
"Fine"

I went to this circus the night before.  After the show, they were giving elephant rides.  1 aunty was yelling at them to "let them sleep already, they worked enough for today".
....

I think that was Aunty Karen....

First, elephants usually only sleep for about two hours a day.
But they don’t sleep all at once like we do.

Instead, they take short naps throughout the day and night.

Second, elephants don’t sleep lying down like we do.

Instead, they often stand up or lie on their side.

https://elephantguide.com/en/how-do-elephants-sleep/

Combining this with a GPS collar and gyroscope – which measured bodily
movements in the x, y and z planes, we made four really interesting observations:

-- the elephants slept on average for two hours a day;

-- most of their sleep was while standing, but they lay down to sleep every third or
   fourth day;

-- there were nights when they didn’t sleep at all, and they took a 30 km hike; and

-- the time they went to sleep and woke up coincided with environmental conditions
   not related to sunrise or sunset.

https://theconversation.com/why-its-so-important-to-understand-how-elephants-sleep-74780

Animals live in the moment. 

Well there's the dumbest thing I've heard all day...and Democratic convention is on!

Well there's the dumbest thing I've heard all day...and Democratic convention is on!

Seriously.  Why do you think it's more effective to house break a dog when you catch them in the act? 

It's called associative learning, and Pavlov gave us the most insightful clues through conditioned response experiments.

I remember the movie Day of the Dolphin, where they explained that the dolphins had no conceptual understanding of hypotheticals.  Something either is, or it is not.  There is no abstract idea of "suppose something were to be".  Yeah, it was a fictional movie, but the explanation stuck with me because it made sense.

My mom had a cat that her brother tortured, including dunking it in the bathtub in a pillow case.  One day, as the cat was sleeping on the table by the front  door, the brother came in.  The cat realized who it was and scratched the blood out of his arm.  He then leapt to my mom's lap for safety.

It wasn't revenge for past acts, but fear of him from repeated abuse.  Pure conditioned response.  But people who don't get it would call it payback.

People tend to give animals too many human characteristics like projecting their own feelings to non-domesticated animals.  "That poor elephant has worked enough hours today.  He needs sleep."  Right.   

What a shallow and intellectually lazy justification for animal torture. They can love, they can hate, they can mourn, and they can hold a grudge and wait for stone cold revenge. Hopefully you never have to learn that the hard way.

What a shallow and intellectually lazy justification for animal torture. They can love, they can hate, they can mourn, and they can hold a grudge and wait for stone cold revenge. Hopefully you never have to learn that the hard way.

Please show me where i advocated for animal torture.

Don't know if happy plays into it as much as how well they were trained and was there something that triggered the animal's flight?

Animals live in the moment.  They aren't making plans for the future, like, "Next chance I get, I'm getting out of this circus!"

I think if Tyke had Google maps she would've been alive

Please show me where i advocated for animal torture.

Saying that animals don't remember being mistreated and don't have feelings is an unscientific justification for abuse. You probably came upon your beliefs honestly. Obviously plenty of people subscribed to the theories of Descartes over the past couple centuries, and as a result we gained lots of scientific breakthroughs but at a cost of our relationships to nature and each other.

I'm just pointing out why a certain kind of person would find the utility of those notions very appealing, especially when there's lots of money involved. 

Saying that animals don't remember being mistreated and don't have feelings is an unscientific justification for abuse. You probably came upon your beliefs honestly. Obviously plenty of people subscribed to the theories of Descartes over the past couple centuries, and as a result we gained lots of scientific breakthroughs but at a cost of our relationships to nature and each other.

I'm just pointing out why a certain kind of person would find the utility of those notions very appealing, especially when there's lots of money involved. 

"Saying that animals don't remember being mistreated and don't have feelings is an unscientific justification for abuse."

Actually the science says the opposite.  Scientific studies show that animals's feelings are stimulated by chemistry in the body.  You can get a happy little high from jogging as endorphins kick in.  That's got nothing to do with memories or emotions.  You can despise running and still experience the endorphin rush.  Pure science-based chemistry and biology.

Scientific studies show that animals's feelings are stimulated by chemistry in the body. 

That sounds more like scientific fraud that justifies animal experimentation.

Science can't even tell us what consciousness is in humans, never mind anything else.

Animals live in the moment.  They aren't making plans for the future, like, "Next chance I get, I'm getting out of this circus!"

oh yeah?! Meet Elephant PMP!

That sounds more like scientific fraud that justifies animal experimentation.

Science can't even tell us what consciousness is in humans, never mind anything else.

You can observe behavior as related to stimuli.

Did you not learn about conditioned responses in school? 

The main stream media has it down to an art, conditioning Democrats to act without thinking.

Conditioned response is all that single cell organisms have, but as organisms movie up in complexity something else starts to exert more influence

Democrats may have surrendered those higher faculties to the mob in exchange for a false sense of security, but that just demonstrates how consciousness works by showing the disastrous effects of what happens when we don't use it,

Do we know the reason that dog traveled 100km was to bite the owner because the owner was bitten and someone assumed that was the reason?

Or, did Dr. Doolittle tell us that's what the dog told him?

No animal is going to return home across that distance for revenge.  It only does that because they want to go home, and that's the only home they know.

Sometimes I think the reason animal lovers argue over what animals feel is because they, themselves, have the same type of uncontrollable responses and instincts.

Next you'll be telling me the dog was able to read the road signs to find his way home.

Not to promote either side of the debate, but this is a nice story.

There was 1 dog in A-stan that met a group of US solders.  They fed the dog and pet/played and then left their AO hours or days later.  The dog followed them over 70 miles to the FOB.  It lost track of them at some point as vehicles drove faster than a dog can run.  The dog showed up 2 or 3 days later at the FOB.

The standing orders are no dogs allowed at the FOB cause dogs there aren't domesticated like how they are in the US.  They even have patrols with shotguns looking for wild dogs in the FOB.  Command allowed this dog to stay and 1 soldier was able to bring him home thru a non-profit that helps soldiers in a warzone bringing animals home.

People say that they helped the dog, but the soldier says that it's the dog that helped the unit (moral).

Do we know the reason that dog traveled 100km was to bite the owner because the owner was bitten and someone assumed that was the reason?

Or, did Dr. Doolittle tell us that's what the dog told him?

No animal is going to return home across that distance for revenge.  It only does that because they want to go home, and that's the only home they know.

Sometimes I think the reason animal lovers argue over what animals feel is because they, themselves, have the same type of uncontrollable responses and instincts.

Next you'll be telling me the dog was able to read the road signs to find his way home.

So if I'm an animal lover, doesn't that make you an animal hater?