As if this election season wasn't contentious enough this story pops up, in a swing state no less...

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2024-09-20/court-rules-nearly-98-000-arizonans-whose-citizenship-hadnt-been-confirmed-can-vote-the-full-ballot

Due to an error in the system there are 98,000 voters in Arizona never proved citizenship as required. It doesn't mean they were all non-citizens, but at least one non-citizen was found to be registered though he had never voted.

This could feed all sorts of conspiracies and legal challenges both in the past and going forward. This is not going to help.

The real story is how screwed up government is at all levels, yet people pretend they are the solution to every problem.

The "error' has existed for over 20 years, and only now, just over a month before an important general election, is the problem noticed?

Seems a bit odd.

Someone knew this problem existed but was told to stay quiet about it, i guarantee it.  A 98,000 record error that existed for more than 20 years should not go unnoticed the entire time unless someone wanted it to remain unnoticed.

If an "error" of this magnitude was ignored for decades, what else are they overlooking?

Maybe it's time for the states to be forced to wipe their entire voter registration database and require all voters to register again.  That would clean out the dead, the mentally infirm, the non-citizens, and those no longer living in the state.

I'm sure someone is going to say the cost is too much, but apparently they haven't been using the money they received for the last 20+ years to ensure data accuracy, so they invited this upon themselves.

The real story is how screwed up government is at all levels, yet people pretend they are the solution to every problem.

The "error' has existed for over 20 years, and only now, just over a month before an important general election, is the problem noticed?

Seems a bit odd.

Someone knew this problem existed but was told to stay quiet about it, i guarantee it.  A 98,000 record error that existed for more than 20 years should not go unnoticed the entire time unless someone wanted it to remain unnoticed.

If an "error" of this magnitude was ignored for decades, what else are they overlooking?

Maybe it's time for the states to be forced to wipe their entire voter registration database and require all voters to register again.  That would clean out the dead, the mentally infirm, the non-citizens, and those no longer living in the state.

I'm sure someone is going to say the cost is too much, but apparently they haven't been using the money they received for the last 20+ years to ensure data accuracy, so they invited this upon themselves.

The official notice from the county (I think) agency said that it was only discovered recently when a Belgian citizen with a work visa noticed that he got mailed a ballot. He may have accidentally clicked a box registering him to vote when he renewed his license. Was it known to someone much longer than that? Possibly.

There is also a state law saying they couldn't go making big changes to the voter rolls within 90 days of the election so technically they couldn't do anything to the voter rolls prior to this upcoming election. From the reporting I have seen so far it does seem to be that most of these are believed to be citizens but there is always going to be the question of how many aren't and have voted in the past? I am not one for theories that thousands of non-citizens are voting in presidential elections but this story certainly makes those theories a bit more plausible.

Interestingly it only would affect local/state elections as federal law doesn't require voters to prove citizenship so they could still vote for president but not in the state/local elections.
https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/08/justices-allow-arizona-to-enforce-proof-of-citizenship-law-for-2024-voter-registration/

The official notice from the county (I think) agency said that it was only discovered recently when a Belgian citizen with a work visa noticed that he got mailed a ballot. He may have accidentally clicked a box registering him to vote when he renewed his license. Was it known to someone much longer than that? Possibly.

There is also a state law saying they couldn't go making big changes to the voter rolls within 90 days of the election so technically they couldn't do anything to the voter rolls prior to this upcoming election. From the reporting I have seen so far it does seem to be that most of these are believed to be citizens but there is always going to be the question of how many aren't and have voted in the past? I am not one for theories that thousands of non-citizens are voting in presidential elections but this story certainly makes those theories a bit more plausible.

Interestingly it only would affect local/state elections as federal law doesn't require voters to prove citizenship so they could still vote for president but not in the state/local elections.
https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/08/justices-allow-arizona-to-enforce-proof-of-citizenship-law-for-2024-voter-registration/

So, the only time anyone noticed this problem over the last 20+ years was always within 90 days of an election?  After the election, the problem was forgotten or vanished until the next election?

Not buying it.  This story might have become public within 90 days of THIS election, but i guarantee someone noticed over the course of 20 years well before now.

Why is there a law that says non-citizens cannot vote in Federal elections but there also is a law that states it doesn't require citizens to prove citizenship to vote in Federal elections?

Why is there a law that says non-citizens cannot vote in Federal elections but there also is a law that states it doesn't require citizens to prove citizenship to vote in Federal elections?

Because the law doesn't go far enough in stipulating HOW states must satisfy the "citizens only" voting requirement.

In AZ, as long as the person registering signed a sworn statement that they are legal residents of the US, the state called that good enough.

The new law requires PROOF of citizenship status, but the people who registered before that commenced were by default given the "Full Ballot" voting status -- i.e. designated a US citizen without proof.

Someone should have raised this problem earlier.  now we've seen at least 5 general elections with any number of non-citizens voting in them.  The damage has been done if any of them were not eligible voters for the federal ballot.

You can only blame incompetence so many times until it's obvious someone is seeing how much they can get away with.  Without reliable audits and integrity reviews, how would anyone other than those in on it be able to catch this?

Why is there a law that says non-citizens cannot vote in Federal elections but there also is a law that states it doesn't require citizens to prove citizenship to vote in Federal elections?

From what I read the form has a sworn statement on it holding someone accountable for lying. I question the efficacy of that honor system. I think it is stupid that we don't require proof of citizenship.

So, the only time anyone noticed this problem over the last 20+ years was always within 90 days of an election?  After the election, the problem was forgotten or vanished until the next election?

Not buying it.  This story might have become public within 90 days of THIS election, but i guarantee someone noticed over the course of 20 years well before now.

It could even be an IT guy who said "hey, since we're going computers now, instead of just transferring all paper stuff over, why not clean it up at the same time?".

From what I read the form has a sworn statement on it holding someone accountable for lying. I question the efficacy of that honor system. I think it is stupid that we don't require proof of citizenship.

Me too.  I dunno what's so hard.  I call BS on people possibly not having the documents to prove citizenship.

Common sense tells you certain documents should be kept.  Maybe those people who cannot figure this out shouldn't be citizens......

I know kinda harsh but this whole catch-22 bullcrap about something as sacred and important as voting is beginning to irritate the sh*t out of me.

Me too.  I dunno what's so hard.  I call BS on people possibly not having the documents to prove citizenship.

Common sense tells you certain documents should be kept.  Maybe those people who cannot figure this out shouldn't be citizens......

I know kinda harsh but this whole catch-22 bullcrap about something as sacred and important as voting is beginning to irritate the sh*t out of me.

When I renew my drivers license over the years, I had to show my birth cert. Compare this to WA, where my friend just did it online and they mailed him a new one.

WHen I was able to keep a state ID (you cannot have that and a drivers license), I had to show my birth cert.

When I applied for my passport, I had to show my birth cert.

ID's are needed at all banks until the tellers know you.



The main people with an excuse not to have a birth cert are homeless people and people who recently lost it/fire destroyed it, etc...But then they make the time to get a replacement. HOmeless person, it's not on their priority of things to do.

When I renew my drivers license over the years, I had to show my birth cert. Compare this to WA, where my friend just did it online and they mailed him a new one.

WHen I was able to keep a state ID (you cannot have that and a drivers license), I had to show my birth cert.

When I applied for my passport, I had to show my birth cert.

ID's are needed at all banks until the tellers know you.



The main people with an excuse not to have a birth cert are homeless people and people who recently lost it/fire destroyed it, etc...But then they make the time to get a replacement. HOmeless person, it's not on their priority of things to do.

Proof of US citizenship when getting/renewing your drivers license is part of the Real ID Act:

Passed by Congress in 2005, the REAL ID Act enacted the 9/11 Commission's
recommendation that the Federal Government “set standards for the issuance
of sources of identification, such as driver's licenses.” The Act established minimum
security standards for state-issued driver's licenses and identification cards and
prohibits certain federal agencies from accepting for official purposes licenses
and identification cards from states that do not meet these standards. These
purposes are:

+ Accessing certain federal facilities
+ Boarding federally regulated commercial aircraft
+ Entering nuclear power plants

The enforcement date is May 7, 2025.

https://www.dhs.gov/real-id/real-id-faqs