Trump said in a speech that Zelinsky started the war with Russia.
"“You’ve been there for three years. You should have ended it ... You should have never started it. You could have made a deal.”"

Then he cited an unknown poll saying Zelinsky's approval was at 4% despite a recent poll having his approval at 57%.

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-trump-war-zelenskyy-putin-7fe8c0c80b4e93e3bc079c621a44e8bb

Meh.  He's not wrong.

Putin wanted the land connecting Russia with Crimea.  If you look at a map of the frontlines, the swath of land adjacent to Crimea northward is where the front lines are.

Ukraine could have easily swapped that land with land Russia controlled, or better yet, negotiated economic trades for rights to use that land.  Without it, Crimea is inaccessible to Russia other than by air and sea.

Russia has military facilities in Crimea.  Refusing to allow surface transportation between there and Russia is a huge problem for Putin. 

When the other side wants something so badly but which you are not willing to bargain over, you don't leave the other side much choice if they really want it -- they will try to take it by force.

It was avoidable, but seeing how many billions of US dollars have been thrown at Ukraine, you have to wonder if that was their plan all along.

Putin wanted the land connecting Russia with Crimea.

Hold on a minute.

As Macsak would say, you forgot to make clear your explanation was, "in your opinion".

Putin never ever said the war in Ukraine was primarily to annex Crimea.  I have on many occasions shared and even posted videos where Putin himself said what the objectives of the Ukrainian war were all about.  Now Trump himself has at least made clear that Russia did not start this war, unlike what you as well as the neocons and imperialists alike similarly still try to put all the blame to Russia.

Meh.  He's not wrong.

Putin wanted the land connecting Russia with Crimea.  If you look at a map of the frontlines, the swath of land adjacent to Crimea northward is where the front lines are.

Ukraine could have easily swapped that land with land Russia controlled, or better yet, negotiated economic trades for rights to use that land.  Without it, Crimea is inaccessible to Russia other than by air and sea.

Russia has military facilities in Crimea.  Refusing to allow surface transportation between there and Russia is a huge problem for Putin. 

When the other side wants something so badly but which you are not willing to bargain over, you don't leave the other side much choice if they really want it -- they will try to take it by force.

It was avoidable, but seeing how many billions of US dollars have been thrown at Ukraine, you have to wonder if that was their plan all along.

So if Russia demanded a chunk of Alaska, we should negotiate to give it to them to avoid them attacking us? If we told Russia to pound sand and they invaded Russia, it would be our fault?

I just don't see Americans willing to give up land in that way.

Hold on a minute.

As Macsak would say, you forgot to make clear your explanation was, "in your opinion".

Putin never ever said the war in Ukraine was primarily to annex Crimea.  I have on many occasions shared and even posted videos where Putin himself said what the objectives of the Ukrainian war were all about.  Now Trump himself has at least made clear that Russia did not start this war, unlike what you as well as the neocons and imperialists alike similarly still try to put all the blame to Russia.

As Macsak would reply, "Please show me where I said 'the war in Ukraine was primarily to annex Crimea.'"

Russia has been trying to regain control of Crimea for at least 20 years now.  The country is now designated "occupied Crimea."

There's a long history of Putin attempting to annex Crimea through all sorts of referendums and replacement of government officials.

Up until the war starting, Crimea was considered a state under the jurisdiction of Ukraine.

So, I guess you'd be right that Putin never said 'the war in Ukraine was primarily to annex Crimea,' assuming he would ever say that.  But iCrimea is undeniably a major objective that Putin's been fixated on for a long time.  Annexing Crimea was still on his wish list.

Then there's the FACT that Russia invaded Crimea in 2014 which began the current war with Ukraine.

In February and March 2014, Russia invaded the Crimean Peninsula,
part of Ukraine, and then annexed it. This took place in the relative
power vacuum[34] immediately following the Revolution of Dignity.
It marked the beginning of the Russo-Ukrainian War.

So if Russia demanded a chunk of Alaska, we should negotiate to give it to them to avoid them attacking us? If we told Russia to pound sand and they invaded Russia, it would be our fault?

I just don't see Americans willing to give up land in that way.

More hypothetical hogwash.

Crimea has changed hands from USSR to Ukraine, so their sovereignty is not as solidified as Alaska.  Do you know when Alaska became a territory and who owned it before the US?

The Alaska Purchase was the purchase of Alaska from the
Russian Empire by the United States for a sum of $7.2 million
in 1867 (equivalent to $129 million in 2023)[1]. On May 15 of
that year, the United States Senate ratified a bilateral treaty
that had been signed on March 30, and American sovereignty
became legally effective across the territory on October 18.

Quote

Russia would invite an international police action, probably via UN sanctions and military force, if they reneged on that treaty.

No such treaty exists between Ukraine and Russia regarding Crimea. 

Then there's the FACT that Russia invaded Crimea in 2014 which began the current war with Ukraine.

So, are you saying that Trump, myself, and many other anti-neocons and anti-imperialists are incorrect that it was Russia that started the Ukraine war according to your facts?

So, are you saying that Trump, myself, and many other anti-neocons and anti-imperialists are incorrect that it was Russia that started the Ukraine war according to your facts?

I said what I said.  It's plain English.

Show me where you're confused about Russia, Crimea and what started the war with Ukraine.

Meh.  He's not wrong.

Putin wanted the land connecting Russia with Crimea.  If you look at a map of the frontlines, the swath of land adjacent to Crimea northward is where the front lines are.

Ukraine could have easily swapped that land with land Russia controlled, or better yet, negotiated economic trades for rights to use that land.  Without it, Crimea is inaccessible to Russia other than by air and sea.

Russia has military facilities in Crimea.  Refusing to allow surface transportation between there and Russia is a huge problem for Putin. 

When the other side wants something so badly but which you are not willing to bargain over, you don't leave the other side much choice if they really want it -- they will try to take it by force.

It was avoidable, but seeing how many billions of US dollars have been thrown at Ukraine, you have to wonder if that was their plan all along.

So it seems like you are saying the war was started by Ukraine because they did not capitulate to the demands of the Russian invaders.


Wow!  An apologist for Putin walks among us.

So it seems like you are saying the war was started by Ukraine because they did not capitulate to the demands of the Russian invaders.


Wow!  An apologist for Putin walks among us.

Stop with the histrionics.  There's no need to call people names especially when you're misunderstanding what's being said.

Show me where i said Ukraine started the war.  I've been pretty direct about Russia invading Crimea as the starting point.

What I'm saying is Ukraine had a choice to fight or make an effort to avoid fighting.  They chose to fight, which drew the US and other nations into the conflict costing the US alone billions upon billions of tax payer dollars.

i wonder what Ukraine would have decided before 2014 if the US had not been willing to support them in an all-out, boots-on-the-ground war?  Most people are smart enough not to jump into a fight they have no chance of winning.  The better option is to strike a deal that both sides can live with short of destroying cities and killing hundreds of thousands of fighters and noncombatants not to mention the displacement of as many refugees fleeing the fighting.

More hypothetical hogwash.

Crimea has changed hands from USSR to Ukraine, so their sovereignty is not as solidified as Alaska.  Do you know when Alaska became a territory and who owned it before the US?

Quote

The Alaska Purchase was the purchase of Alaska from the
Russian Empire by the United States for a sum of $7.2 million
in 1867 (equivalent to $129 million in 2023)[1]. On May 15 of
that year, the United States Senate ratified a bilateral treaty
that had been signed on March 30, and American sovereignty
became legally effective across the territory on October 18.

Russia would invite an international police action, probably via UN sanctions and military force, if they reneged on that treaty.

No such treaty exists between Ukraine and Russia regarding Crimea.

Ukraine has been a sovereign country since 1991. Russia having once owner Ukraine hardly gives it a right to kill Ukrainians and retake the land. Even if they had some sort of legitimate dispute over Crimea, that clearly is irrelevant since they didn't stop once they took Crimea.

Regardless, there is no sane argument to support the idea that Ukraine started the war. Ukraine didn't attack Russian troops, they didn't invade Russia, nor did they threaten to attack Russia.

The Budapest Memorandum was an international agreement prohibited Russia, the United States and the United Kingdom from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine. In exchange Ukraine gave up all of its nuclear weapons. So yes,  a treaty existed.

So it seems like you are saying the war was started by Ukraine because they did not capitulate to the demands of the Russian invaders.


Wow!  An apologist for Putin walks among us.

I guess the allied powers started the war with Nazi Germany too...

Ukraine has been a sovereign country since 1991. Russia having once owner Ukraine hardly gives it a right to kill Ukrainians and retake the land. Even if they had some sort of legitimate dispute over Crimea, that clearly is irrelevant since they didn't stop once they took Crimea.

Regardless, there is no sane argument to support the idea that Ukraine started the war. Ukraine didn't attack Russian troops, they didn't invade Russia, nor did they threaten to attack Russia.

The Budapest Memorandum was an international agreement prohibited Russia, the United States and the United Kingdom from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine. In exchange Ukraine gave up all of its nuclear weapons. So yes,  a treaty existed.

Show me where i said that.

I guess the allied powers started the war with Nazi Germany too...

Another snarky comment based on nothing anyone actually said.

Do you ever get tired of starting arguments over nothing?

Russia just wanted to take over Ukraine.  That's all there is to it.

Russia just wanted to take over Ukraine.  That's all there is to it.

That's a simple take designed to appeal to simple folks.

The Deep State overthrew the Ukrainian government in order to pick a fight with Russia, bankrupt them with a proxy war, and break them up so that western oligarchs could steal their resources.

Interestingly enough one of our local billionaires was a huge player in the Orange color revolution that put a bunch of Ukranian Nazis in power. Honolulu Civil Beat owner Pierre Omidyar.

https://www.mintpressnews.com/pierre-omidyar-funding-of-pro-regime-change-networks-and-partnerships-with-cia-cutouts/255337/

Keep that in mind the next time you read a CB article trying to use moral justifications in order to take away our gun rights

Ukraine is corrupt.

Plain and simple.

Their actions and dealings in the past have led to Russia annexing Crimea and other regions prior to their invasion.

If the US had enemies at the gates they would have done the same thing if they were in Russia's shoes.

The terrain at the Ukraine/Russia border is just flat all the way to Moscow.  Nobody in their right mind is going to sit around and do nothing while the enemy is literally at the gates.

Show me where i said that.

You said "Meh.  He's not wrong." in response to Trump's quote which included Trump saying Ukraine started the war.

Another snarky comment based on nothing anyone actually said.

Do you ever get tired of starting arguments over nothing?

So you call my point hogwash and then get offended at some light snarkery?