Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says (Read 9451 times)

macsak

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2025, 02:13:49 PM »
FOCUS
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=56714.msg502301#msg502301

I have no idea how even you could have derived that conclusion from my statement as it is completely devoid of any such comment.

Saying "Remove Trump" in code or in plain English would not be enough to establish incitement to violence given the common meaning of "86" to be removing someone from an establishment.

changemyoil66

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2025, 02:13:53 PM »
Touche

I don't think you know what that means.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2025, 02:15:53 PM »
So Trump should limit his speech and Comey is free to express himself. Too much TDS in your eye

I never said Trump can't or shouldn't say anything akin to what Comey said.

You also conflate "should" and "legal" . Lots of things shouldn't be said but are legal to say.

changemyoil66

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2025, 02:16:55 PM »
you misspelled "i was wrong"...

U beat me to it.

changemyoil66

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2025, 02:17:39 PM »
I never said Trump can't or shouldn't say anything akin to what Comey said.

You also conflate "should" and "legal" . Lots of things shouldn't be said but are legal to say.

Maybe Comey was talking about Trump invading Panama as an act of war.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2025, 02:19:26 PM »
FOCUS
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=56714.msg502301#msg502301

FOCUS
Are you claiming that "86" does not mean to remove someone from an establishment?

macsak

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2025, 02:20:06 PM »
please show me where i said that...

FOCUS
Are you claiming that "86" does not mean to remove someone from an establishment?

eyeeatingfish

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2025, 02:20:14 PM »
Maybe Comey was talking about Trump invading Panama as an act of war.

Show me where I said that. (You can't)  :stopjack:

hvybarrels

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2025, 02:27:54 PM »
Show me where I said that. (You can't)  :stopjack:

I think you’re permanently stuck on step one, which annoys the rest of us who have moved on long ago

Is an armadillo just a tactical opossum?

eyeeatingfish

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2025, 02:29:26 PM »
please show me where i said that...

I didn't say you said that. I said what "86" commonly means and you post a video saying Comey knew that 86 meant violence as if it were a rebuttal. Maybe what you don't realize is that threats have to be clear and specific. What that means is that if a term or phrase has multiple different meanings then it becomes difficult/impossible to prove the person meant the violent meaning instead of the non-violent meaning. Because of the term having multiple meanings, a prosecution of Comey for this would have to prove that Comey meant the violent meaning as opposed to the non-violent meaning, not merely that Comey knew or should have known the word could be interpreted as a threat.

The most simplest example would be if you scratched my car and I said "You will be sorry!" in an angry voice that could be interpreted as a threat of assault but I could have said it meaning I would sue you. To be a threat the statement cannot be ambiguous.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2025, 02:30:06 PM »
FOCUS
Are you claiming that "86" does not mean to remove someone from an establishment?

If there are several common meanings for a phrase, it's up to the reader/listener to interpret it, and it's up to the writer/speaker to know their audience and how they might take the words in or out of context.

That's why it's  important for highly visible public figures to choose their words and images carefully.  it doesn't matter what comey says he intended or didn't intend.  It's about how someone else will interpret his post.

Remember the uproar the Democrats raised when Sarah Palin used a crosshair image saying they needed to target certain candidates?  The Left went crazy saying she was inciting violence.  Her ads were also blamed by many for inciting the public assassination attempt of Rep. Gabby Giffords.
Quote
We do not yet know what prompted 22-year-old accused gunman
Jared Loughner to allegedly shoot Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.)
and others, including a child and federal judge who died from their
wounds.

But critics of Sarah Palin have already drawn a link between the
shooting and the fact that the former Alaska governor put Giffords
on a "target list"of lawmakers Palin wanted to see unseated in the
midterm elections.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sarah-palin-criticized-over-gabrielle-giffords-presence-on-target-list/

Same exact thing -- intentional or not.  After the Palin ad situation, Comey knew better.  He chose to post it anyway.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2025, 02:30:14 PM »
I think you’re permanently stuck on step one, which annoys the rest of us who have moved on long ago



Wrong, but funny meme.

hvybarrels

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2025, 02:35:43 PM »
Wrong

That’s what someone in denial would say
Is an armadillo just a tactical opossum?

Chrashd

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2025, 02:38:20 PM »
Doesn't matter if he found it, set it up,or it fell out of the sky. HE POSTED IT!!! It could be a trigger for some nutcase to try to harm the president. He knew what he was doing and now he is backing down...."I didn't know" He can back off now and hope he gets the results he wants.....another try on Trump!!  ???

eyeeatingfish

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2025, 02:39:37 PM »
If there are several common meanings for a phrase, it's up to the reader/listener to interpret it, and it's up to the writer/speaker to know their audience and how they might take the words in or out of context.

That's why it's  important for highly visible public figures to choose their words and images carefully.  it doesn't matter what comey says he intended or didn't intend.  It's about how someone else will interpret his post.

Remember the uproar the Democrats raised when Sarah Palin used a crosshair image saying they needed to target certain candidates?  The Left went crazy saying she was inciting violence.  Her ads were also blamed by many for inciting the public assassination attempt of Rep. Gabby Giffords.https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sarah-palin-criticized-over-gabrielle-giffords-presence-on-target-list/

Same exact thing -- intentional or not.  After the Palin ad situation, Comey knew better.  He chose to post it anyway.

From a public speaking role I agree but the issue here is whether it is criminal and that is measured with a different metric. Giffords' and Palin's statements were closer to the line than Comey's, in my opinion, and note that neither were prosecuted. 

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2024/08/True-Threats-Guidance-3.pdf

macsak

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2025, 02:40:19 PM »
that's not what you said
"Saying "Remove Trump" in code or in plain English would not be enough to establish incitement to violence given the common meaning of "86" to be removing someone from an establishment."
FOCUS
he never said that he was saying "remove trump"...

I didn't say you said that. I said what "86" commonly means and you post a video saying Comey knew that 86 meant violence as if it were a rebuttal. Maybe what you don't realize is that threats have to be clear and specific. What that means is that if a term or phrase has multiple different meanings then it becomes difficult/impossible to prove the person meant the violent meaning instead of the non-violent meaning. Because of the term having multiple meanings, a prosecution of Comey for this would have to prove that Comey meant the violent meaning as opposed to the non-violent meaning, not merely that Comey knew or should have known the word could be interpreted as a threat.

The most simplest example would be if you scratched my car and I said "You will be sorry!" in an angry voice that could be interpreted as a threat of assault but I could have said it meaning I would sue you. To be a threat the statement cannot be ambiguous.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2025, 02:42:55 PM »
That’s what someone in denial would say

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2025, 02:46:04 PM »
well said, officer...
you might want to consider that we are not only thinking it was a threat of violence
objectively speaking, of course...

I didn't say you said that. I said what "86" commonly means and you post a video saying Comey knew that 86 meant violence as if it were a rebuttal. Maybe what you don't realize is that threats have to be clear and specific. What that means is that if a term or phrase has multiple different meanings then it becomes difficult/impossible to prove the person meant the violent meaning instead of the non-violent meaning. Because of the term having multiple meanings, a prosecution of Comey for this would have to prove that Comey meant the violent meaning as opposed to the non-violent meaning, not merely that Comey knew or should have known the word could be interpreted as a threat.

The most simplest example would be if you scratched my car and I said "You will be sorry!" in an angry voice that could be interpreted as a threat of assault but I could have said it meaning I would sue you. To be a threat the statement cannot be ambiguous.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2025, 02:53:44 PM »
that's not what you said
"Saying "Remove Trump" in code or in plain English would not be enough to establish incitement to violence given the common meaning of "86" to be removing someone from an establishment."
FOCUS
he never said that he was saying "remove trump"...

I know he didn't say "remove Trump", I didn't claim he did. The point was to illustrate that it matters not whether the message was in code or not, the message remove Trump is protected speech. 

eyeeatingfish

Re: Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2025, 02:55:15 PM »
well said, officer...
you might want to consider that we are not only thinking it was a threat of violence
objectively speaking, of course...

Given the fact you chose the title "Comey belongs in jail, DNI Tulsi Gabbard says" it would seem you clearly meant this in the criminal context.

If you meant it in a moral or ethical context then I suggest indicating such. My comment was clearly about the legal aspect so making some sort of moral or ethical rebuttal isn't really relevant.