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Organ Harvesting Fraud (Read 1530 times)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Organ Harvesting Fraud
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2025, 10:36:41 AM »
Quote from: hvybarrels on October 20, 2025, 10:07:46 PM
Denial is not just a river in Egypt
Show me where I said i don't believe organ harvesting crimes happen -- just not in the case you posted regarding the 17 yo from West Oahu.

That article is mostly an anti-gun propaganda piece.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2025, 07:50:23 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

hvybarrels

Re: Organ Harvesting Fraud
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2025, 02:44:36 PM »
Hospitals murdering people in order to sell their organs is a huge problem, and it's probably happening in Hawaii as well.

Apparently these facts make some people uncomfortable

Good
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If the news was lying to me I would have heard about it on the news.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Organ Harvesting Fraud
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2025, 06:26:59 PM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on October 16, 2025, 03:25:12 PM
No part of his story is relevant to the topic.  Not once did EEF say whether or not the OD patient was an organ donor.

Seems like a topic on organ harvesting fraud would need to be tied to a case of actual organ harvesting.

Simply taking someone off of life support might seem relevant, but that happens all the time whether or not the patient is a donor.

Now, if he saw a non-donor go through that same battery of tests as described to determine brain death, but a donor patient only had one simple test performed, that would be much more relevant.  if they all get the same tests, then there's no value added from that story.

But, we'll never know apparently.


The point was about how it is hard to tell when someone is truly dead and their organs should be harvested for donation. How do you know whether a doctor is lying so he can harvest organs, making a mistake on the person's chances of recovery, or is making an accurate call. This is directly relevant to this conspiracy theory about organ harvesting fraud.
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Organ Harvesting Fraud
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2025, 07:55:32 PM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on October 21, 2025, 06:26:59 PM

The point was about how it is hard to tell when someone is truly dead and their organs should be harvested for donation. How do you know whether a doctor is lying so he can harvest organs, making a mistake on the person's chances of recovery, or is making an accurate call. This is directly relevant to this conspiracy theory about organ harvesting fraud.
That's why I was told my whole life to get a second opinion whenever the consequences involve life and death decisions.

There will be mistakes made when relatives substitute their own judgement for that of the patient.  If the patient can make the call to not be placed on life support so their situation isn't prolonged, then there's no tests to be run.  If the patient dies from whatever the medical problem is, then they die.  brain dead won't be a concern.

Same scenario happens if the patient has executed an advacne medical directive.  Takes all the on machine/off machine decisions out of everyone's hands.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Organ Harvesting Fraud
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2025, 11:15:13 AM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on October 21, 2025, 06:26:59 PM

The point was about how it is hard to tell when someone is truly dead and their organs should be harvested for donation. How do you know whether a doctor is lying so he can harvest organs, making a mistake on the person's chances of recovery, or is making an accurate call. This is directly relevant to this conspiracy theory about organ harvesting fraud.

When I get my HI drivers license, it ask if I want to be an organ donor.  So absent from this or any legal documents or authority, wouldn't it be an automatic no harvesting?  If this is correct, then it's not hard to know if someones organs are allowed for donation.

Are you aware of the state law when a doctor can pull the plug without any legal documents or authority?  If you're not, then all you're doing is playing whataboutism.
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Organ Harvesting Fraud
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2025, 11:49:53 AM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on October 22, 2025, 11:15:13 AM
When I get my HI drivers license, it ask if I want to be an organ donor.  So absent from this or any legal documents or authority, wouldn't it be an automatic no harvesting?  If this is correct, then it's not hard to know if someones organs are allowed for donation.

Are you aware of the state law when a doctor can pull the plug without any legal documents or authority?  If you're not, then all you're doing is playing whataboutism.
Each situation may be different.

If you consent to organ donor status on your license or any other legal document (living will/advance directive ...), and you are brought into the ER with obviously critical injuries, AND if you do not regain consciousness, then the hospital can place you on life support without anyone's consent to maintain the viability of your organs.  Once they take you off life support, they must wait until you expire.  Then they can start harvesting.

If you do not consent prior to arrival at the hospital, they can't take your organs without the next of kin's consent.  If they consent, then it doesn't matter that you didn't designate yourself as a donor on your license.  However, the relative also has to consent to taking you off life support once the doctors confirm brain death.

11 minute condensed episode based on a true case:


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Organ Harvesting Fraud
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2025, 02:59:54 PM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on October 22, 2025, 11:15:13 AM
When I get my HI drivers license, it ask if I want to be an organ donor.  So absent from this or any legal documents or authority, wouldn't it be an automatic no harvesting?  If this is correct, then it's not hard to know if someones organs are allowed for donation.

Are you aware of the state law when a doctor can pull the plug without any legal documents or authority?  If you're not, then all you're doing is playing whataboutism.

Whataboutism? Swoosh! I am not talking about laws on the matter either, I am talking about the challenges of accurately determining when someone is truly brain dead which happens before organs are harvested regardless of whether the patient is a declared organ donor or not.

When I talked earlier about the drug user's organs being allowed for harvesting it was in the context of whether they would be suitable or whether it would be too damaged by drug use to bother harvesting.

« Last Edit: October 22, 2025, 03:06:12 PM by eyeeatingfish »
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eyeeatingfish

Re: Organ Harvesting Fraud
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2025, 03:04:32 PM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on October 21, 2025, 07:55:32 PM
That's why I was told my whole life to get a second opinion whenever the consequences involve life and death decisions.

There will be mistakes made when relatives substitute their own judgement for that of the patient.  If the patient can make the call to not be placed on life support so their situation isn't prolonged, then there's no tests to be run.  If the patient dies from whatever the medical problem is, then they die.  brain dead won't be a concern.

Same scenario happens if the patient has executed an advance medical directive.  Takes all the on machine/off machine decisions out of everyone's hands.

That is probably the best suggestion. My one heart doctor never explained things well which left me with nagging questions and anxiety so I switched to a different one and wore the heart monitor again. Much better doctor who dealt with my concerns a lot better. Luckily I didn't have to shell out cash for the second opinion. Mine wasn't quite life and death though but still good advice
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hvybarrels

Re: Organ Harvesting Fraud
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2025, 07:19:21 PM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on October 22, 2025, 03:04:32 PM
That is probably the best suggestion. My one heart doctor never explained things well which left me with nagging questions and anxiety so I switched to a different one and wore the heart monitor again. Much better doctor who dealt with my concerns a lot better. Luckily I didn't have to shell out cash for the second opinion. Mine wasn't quite life and death though but still good advice

One silver lining on the covid cloud is that people are much more skeptical of doctors. We all found out the hard way that fancy degrees are insufficient proof of integrity and/or competence.
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If the news was lying to me I would have heard about it on the news.

hvybarrels

Re: Organ Harvesting Fraud
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2025, 09:15:16 PM »
Here’s a Halloween story not for the squeamish:

Conscious and being cut to pieces by doctors doing their best to ignore his cries for help.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/18/kentucky-man-wakes-up-organ-harvesting
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If the news was lying to me I would have heard about it on the news.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Organ Harvesting Fraud
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2025, 10:26:40 PM »
Quote from: hvybarrels on October 30, 2025, 09:15:16 PM
Here’s a Halloween story not for the squeamish:

Conscious and being cut to pieces by doctors doing their best to ignore his cries for help.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/18/kentucky-man-wakes-up-organ-harvesting

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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw
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