You don't see this every day.

I carry a knife everywhere and just assumed that if I ever had to use it in legitimate self defense that it would bankrupt me, but at least I would be alive.

Apparently there's a glimmer of hope for stand your ground arguments in the courts. Probably because the backlog is so huge.

https://www.kitv.com/news/crime/prosecutors-decline-to-charge-suspect-for-murder-in-kalihi-stabbing-due-to-self-defense/article_e71dfded-27bc-4f16-9b73-bd5f3d35e5ca.html

You don't see this every day.

I carry a knife everywhere and just assumed that if I ever had to use it in legitimate self defense that it would bankrupt me, but at least I would be alive.

Apparently there's a glimmer of hope for stand your ground arguments in the courts. Probably because the backlog is so huge.

https://www.kitv.com/news/crime/prosecutors-decline-to-charge-suspect-for-murder-in-kalihi-stabbing-due-to-self-defense/article_e71dfded-27bc-4f16-9b73-bd5f3d35e5ca.html

I would say it's more because the attacker had a knife and it was taken from them by the victim.  Unknown if the attacked was stabbed by her own knife in a struggle for it or after.  I will lean toward that she was stabbed during the struggle for the knife.  Because if it was well after, then the aggressor is now unarmed.

But carrying a knife is good for other purposes. When that helicopter crashed in the water at Pearl Harbor Memorial, the kid was stuck in the seatbelt and they had 3 guys diving under to the chopper and each shared 1 knife between them.  Maybe if all 3 had a knife, they could have cut the seatbelt off easier. The kid drowned as they were unable to cut him out.

I would say it's more because the attacker had a knife and it was taken from them by the victim.  Unknown if the attacked was stabbed by her own knife in a struggle for it or after.  I will lean toward that she was stabbed during the struggle for the knife.  Because if it was well after, then the aggressor is now unarmed.

"Bolter made stabbing gestures toward Sandoval which led him to use a knife to defend himself."

I think they key defense here is   "They also lived in the same home as roommates, which left him unable to escape."

You don't see this every day.

I carry a knife everywhere and just assumed that if I ever had to use it in legitimate self defense that it would bankrupt me, but at least I would be alive.

Apparently there's a glimmer of hope for stand your ground arguments in the courts. Probably because the backlog is so huge.

https://www.kitv.com/news/crime/prosecutors-decline-to-charge-suspect-for-murder-in-kalihi-stabbing-due-to-self-defense/article_e71dfded-27bc-4f16-9b73-bd5f3d35e5ca.html

Yeah you’re right - it’s almost as if lawful self defense is no longer a crime in Hawaii - dare we dream?

Separately, how do you open carry your knife - just clip in the pocket so it’s visible?

I have two 50th Anniversary Bob Terzurola folders, one with a MukuTi handle and unusual Damascus blade - both mint, I’m thinking of selling because I actually carry an ASP steel baton.  Batons are legal to concealed carry due to the HIFCO suit back in 2024.

Really interested in ways people open carry knives given the current law - thanks!

Yeah you’re right - it’s almost as if lawful self defense is no longer a crime in Hawaii - dare we dream?

Separately, how do you open carry your knife - just clip in the pocket so it’s visible?

I have two 50th Anniversary Bob Terzurola folders, one with a MukuTi handle and unusual Damascus blade - both mint, I’m thinking of selling because I actually carry an ASP steel baton.  Batons are legal to concealed carry due to the HIFCO suit back in 2024.

Really interested in ways people open carry knives given the current law - thanks!

If you stab someone to death (a homicide) you are almost always going to be arrested for murder. The key thing in the article is "There was also insufficient evidence in this case to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that his actions were not a lawful act of self-defense." This is how it is supposed to be, they shouldn't be pursuing charges unless there is enough evidence to prove it was not self defense but a murder, not the other way around of charging if they can't prove it was self defense.

I always carried a folding knife clipped to my dominant side but recently I have been carrying a small fixed blade knife I make which is quicker to draw. I carry it horizontally on my belt in the front of me. I can reverse draw it with my right or regular draw with my left hand.

The open carry part had to do with certain types of knives like butterfly and switch blade, they have to be visible

Hawaii's been pretty good at not charging due to self-defense despite what a lot of people think.  There's the Kingsley shooting in Waianae with the AR15, the front loader attack, Ewa beach guy threatening others with a knife, some Puna area shootings, etc.  Half the time there's an arrest but usually released within a day or two and not charged.

If a person is charged, it's usually a grey area or they screwed up.  Like the Kalihi homeowner that shot the kid with a BB gun, Ewa guy that shot a navy guy through the door, or the Dudley shooting at Waikiki McDonalds.

The open carry part had to do with certain types of knives like butterfly and switch blade, they have to be visible

Certainly open carry applies specifically to switch / butterfly, but there seems reason to be cautious about concealed carry of “tactical” type folders:

“Other deadly or dangerous weapon" is limited to instruments whose sole design and purpose is to inflict bodily injury or death.  55 H. 531, 523 P.2d 299 (1974).
  A "diver's knife" is neither a "dangerous weapon" nor a "dagger".  "Deadly and dangerous weapon" is one designed primarily as a weapon or diverted from normal use and prepared for combat.  56 H. 374, 537 P.2d 14 (1975).”

I could easily see a Hawaii prosecutor arguing that tactical folders (which are obviously NOT just pocket knives or utility knives) would fall into the class of deadly or dangerous weapons.

I’d be careful here, and make sure you could not be accused of concealment.

The relevant section:

§134-51  Deadly or dangerous weapons; prohibitions; penalty.  (a)  Any person, not authorized by law, who knowingly carries concealed on the person, or in a bag or other container carried by the person, any dirk, dagger, blackjack, metal knuckles, or other deadly or dangerous weapon shall be guilty of a misdemeanor; provided that this subsection shall not apply to a billy.

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0051.htm

Certainly open carry applies specifically to switch / butterfly, but there seems reason to be cautious about concealed carry of “tactical” type folders:

“Other deadly or dangerous weapon" is limited to instruments whose sole design and purpose is to inflict bodily injury or death.  55 H. 531, 523 P.2d 299 (1974).
  A "diver's knife" is neither a "dangerous weapon" nor a "dagger".  "Deadly and dangerous weapon" is one designed primarily as a weapon or diverted from normal use and prepared for combat.  56 H. 374, 537 P.2d 14 (1975).”

I could easily see a Hawaii prosecutor arguing that tactical folders (which are obviously NOT just pocket knives or utility knives) would fall into the class of deadly or dangerous weapons.

I’d be careful here, and make sure you could not be accused of concealment.

The relevant section:

§134-51  Deadly or dangerous weapons; prohibitions; penalty.  (a)  Any person, not authorized by law, who knowingly carries concealed on the person, or in a bag or other container carried by the person, any dirk, dagger, blackjack, metal knuckles, or other deadly or dangerous weapon shall be guilty of a misdemeanor; provided that this subsection shall not apply to a billy.

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0051.htm

those knives are still illegal under federal law:

switchblades, gravity knives, and butterfly knives are
legal under state law but still illegal federally.   

If your switchblade, gravity knife or butterfly knife was shipped from another state to HI, it is illegal under federal law.

If you have any of these knives during the commission of a crime (and getting caught committing a crime isn't always something premeditated), then that's illegal at the state level.  For example, you are involved in a road rage incident, and you wind up in a crash and get charged.  if they find a knife on you that falls under the concealed or unconcealed category or is a prohibited type, you can get a charge for having a dangerous weapon during the commission of that crime.  doesn't matter if the knife facilitated the crime.  It could have been used to attack the other road rage parties if you exit the vehicle.

Having a knife in your car console is also considered you being armed with a concealed weapon.

The patchwork conditional legal landmines are so ambiguous and convoluted, it's best to avoid any appearance of being armed with anything that's in or used to be in the prohibited list.  Diving knives have precedence and are not considered weapons unless actually used as one.

As usual, the law sucks as written.

https://www.akti.org/state-knife-laws/hawaii/

those knives are still illegal under federal law:

switchblades, gravity knives, and butterfly knives are
legal under state law but still illegal federally.   

If your switchblade, gravity knife or butterfly knife was shipped from another state to HI, it is illegal under federal law.

If you have any of these knives during the commission of a crime (and getting caught committing a crime isn't always something premeditated), then that's illegal at the state level.  For example, you are involved in a road rage incident, and you wind up in a crash and get charged.  if they find a knife on you that falls under the concealed or unconcealed category or is a prohibited type, you can get a charge for having a dangerous weapon during the commission of that crime.  doesn't matter if the knife facilitated the crime.  It could have been used to attack the other road rage parties if you exit the vehicle.

Having a knife in your car console is also considered you being armed with a concealed weapon.

The patchwork conditional legal landmines are so ambiguous and convoluted, it's best to avoid any appearance of being armed with anything that's in or used to be in the prohibited list.  Diving knives have precedence and are not considered weapons unless actually used as one.

As usual, the law sucks as written.

https://www.akti.org/state-knife-laws/hawaii/

It really seems that a collapsible baton is the best way to go, given the Federal court’s permanent injunction against the enforcement of Hawaii’s prior law re: “billies.”

It really seems that a collapsible baton is the best way to go, given the Federal court’s permanent injunction against the enforcement of Hawaii’s prior law re: “billies.”

if you only want to arm yourself with nonlethal weapons, then it's whatever you're comfortable using and your degree of skill.

if you want to be prepared for anything, including lethal threats like knives, guns or 325 lb. Samoans, then a concealed firearm would probably make the most sense.  Just learn to live outside of the sensitive places on island and have a backup plan for when you must visit them.

if you only want to arm yourself with nonlethal weapons, then it's whatever you're comfortable using and your degree of skill.

if you want to be prepared for anything, including lethal threats like knives, guns or 325 lb. Samoans, then a concealed firearm would probably make the most sense.  Just learn to live outside of the sensitive places on island and have a backup plan for when you must visit them.

Totally agree.

Don’t of even think of using any lawful weapon for self defense unless you are fully skillful with it, I.e. train with it regularly.

Also, thoroughly know

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0703/HRS_0703-0304.htm

Hawaii’s law on legal self defense

It really seems that a collapsible baton is the best way to go, given the Federal court’s permanent injunction against the enforcement of Hawaii’s prior law re: “billies.”

I don't have a lot of faith in collapsible batons personally. Remember the video of the HPD officer hitting a mental guy on the beach repeatedly? The guy was mental but he was eat those strikes.

I am interesting in the cable whips as an alternative, a lot of pain but much lower risk of permanent injury unless you are wanting lethal.

you ok?

I don't have a lot of faith in collapsible batons personally. Remember the video of the HPD officer hitting a mental guy on the beach repeatedly? The guy was mental but he was eat those strikes.

I am interesting in the cable whips as an alternative, a lot of pain but much lower risk of permanent injury unless you are wanting lethal.

I don't have a lot of faith in collapsible batons personally. Remember the video of the HPD officer hitting a mental guy on the beach repeatedly? The guy was mental but he was eat those strikes.

I am interesting in the cable whips as an alternative, a lot of pain but much lower risk of permanent injury unless you are wanting lethal.

Won’t that just really really piss em off?

Also, seems kind of easy to block and grasp with the defenders lead arm (the cable, of necessity is pretty long, like 18 inches).

In that case it would become a big liability instantly.

A steel baton strike to the collar bone, forearm, or wrist, can easily take that appendage out of the fight, right then and there.

Anyway, we each have to find our own way through a really complex set of variables, in an increasingly dangerous world.  Maybe the whip-thing is the answer for some.

Seems harder to conceal though.

I don't have a lot of faith in collapsible batons personally. Remember the video of the HPD officer hitting a mental guy on the beach repeatedly? The guy was mental but he was eat those strikes.

I am interesting in the cable whips as an alternative, a lot of pain but much lower risk of permanent injury unless you are wanting lethal.

Was he using the approved HPD strike area technique? Like they aren't allowed head strikes.

Batons require skill and physical force to use.  If you have both then batons can be effective.  But it is a close in contact weapon and ranged weapons are safer for the defender.

Id just use pepper spray

Batons require skill and physical force to use.  If you have both then batons can be effective.  But it is a close in contact weapon and ranged weapons are safer for the defender.

Id just use pepper spray

Good points.

I see the baton as best used by someone with martial arts training - it fits perfectly into this space - also highly effective against edged weapons.

However, like all weapons, if you’re not skillful with them, there is a high risk of it being taken away from you and used against you.

But this is perhaps all bravado and wishful thinking.

Realistically, seems the way to go is awareness, cool head (expect the demons to pop out at any time, cause that’s what they do) conflict avoidance, and if the situation deteriorates to the gravest extreme, to be carrying.

How to defend yourself against a knife attack

How to defend yourself against a knife attack

Awesome dude! - thanks for making me laugh!

Won’t that just really really piss em off?

Also, seems kind of easy to block and grasp with the defenders lead arm (the cable, of necessity is pretty long, like 18 inches).

In that case it would become a big liability instantly.

A steel baton strike to the collar bone, forearm, or wrist, can easily take that appendage out of the fight, right then and there.

Anyway, we each have to find our own way through a really complex set of variables, in an increasingly dangerous world.  Maybe the whip-thing is the answer for some.

Seems harder to conceal though.

A person grabbing a baton is a big problem. You will probably get a couple hits but if he can close distance and get a hold of it then it can become a problem for you at that point. Don't get me wrong, a good strike in the right place can be successful but often the big targets like arms and legs are going to be more pain compliance than disabling.

There are some steel cable whip products out there, the whip isn't that long, maybe 12-15". Some fold and store in the handle, they can also be worn around the waist like a belt which gives a quick draw/deploy. Size and weight wise a baton is more cumbersome. I think the biggest downside is that the whip isn't going to perform well if the situation escalates to deadly force.