The consensus here as of almost 10 years ago seems to be that you can get cap-and-ball revolvers shipped to your door and there's no need register them. Except for one poster who said there is such a thing as a "black powder" permit to acquire. (?)

http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=25487

So I'm just looking to soothe my worried mind here... Is there any permitting or registration that needs to be done to buy a cap-and-ball revolver? Can it be shipped to your door?

The consensus here as of almost 10 years ago seems to be that you can get cap-and-ball revolvers shipped to your door and there's no need register them. Except for one poster who said there is such a thing as a "black powder" permit to acquire. (?)

http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=25487

So I'm just looking to soothe my worried mind here... Is there any permitting or registration that needs to be done to buy a cap-and-ball revolver? Can it be shipped to your door?

Black powder guns don't need to be registered but I am not certain of all the shipping regulations.

You need to also factor in whether the buyer has a Class 3 C&R FFL, and whether or not the revolver is a qualified C&R firearm.

If all that is true, all you need to have it shipped to you directly is a long gun permit.

Worked for me when I had my Nagant M1895 revolver shipped to me.  i still had to register, since it was not a loose powder revolver, but at least I skipped the whole FFL process.

Just something else to consider when asking the question.  A C&R FFL is easy to get, and it's relatively cheap to afford if you use it occasionally.

You need to also factor in whether the buyer has a Class 3 C&R FFL, and whether or not the revolver is a qualified C&R firearm.

If all that is true, all you need to have it shipped to you directly is a long gun permit.

Worked for me when I had my Nagant M1895 revolver shipped to me.  i still had to register, since it was not a loose powder revolver, but at least I skipped the whole FFL process.

Just something else to consider when asking the question.  A C&R FFL is easy to get, and it's relatively cheap to afford if you use it occasionally.

Well now I'm confused again.

I'd be the buyer, I don't have a C&R license, and I don't even have a long gun PTA at the moment. This would be a repro Remington 1858, not a C&R gun. But it'd be a cap-and-ball gun, not a cartridge conversion.

So would I need a permit to acquire, and if so what permit?


Reading the law, I don't see why I wouldn't need a permit the same as any other pistol.

"Antique pistol or revolver" means any pistol or revolver manufactured before 1899 and any replica thereof if it either is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition or is designed or redesigned to use rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
(Note that Hawaii's language here closely copies the Federal language, but excludes the part that classifies muzzle-loading black powder weapons as "antique firearms" instead of "firearms".)

So per Hawaii a cap-and-ball Remington 1858 is an "antique pistol or revolver".
I don't see where the state law cares whether anything is a muzzle loader or not.
Seems like the gun is a "firearm" according to the state definition. ("Firearm" means any weapon, for which the operating force is an explosive, including but not limited to pistols, revolvers, rifles, shotguns, automatic firearms, noxious gas projectors, mortars, bombs, and cannon.)

If it is a firearm, the barrel is under 16", so I reckon it's a "pistol or revolver".
("Pistol" or "revolver" means any firearm of any shape with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length and capable of discharging loaded ammunition or any noxious gas.)

So since it's a barrel under 16", why wouldn't I need a one-time permit to acquire?

§134-2  Permits to acquire.  (a)  No person shall acquire the ownership of a firearm, whether usable or unusable, serviceable or unserviceable, modern or antique, registered under prior law or by a prior owner or unregistered, either by purchase, gift, inheritance, bequest, or in any other manner, whether procured in the State or imported by mail, express, freight, or otherwise, until the person has first procured from the chief of police of the county of the person's place of business or, if there is no place of business, the person's residence or, if there is neither place of business nor residence, the person's place of sojourn, a permit to acquire the ownership of a firearm as prescribed in this section.
§134-2  Permits to acquire.  ... (e) ... Permits to acquire a pistol or revolver shall require a separate application and permit for each transaction. 


But obviously I'm missing something because I don't see where there's a curio & relic carveout either. (The only special rules I see for antiques is that they can't be assault pistols... Just because Federal law considers something an "antique firearm" and not a "firearm", doesn't mean Hawaii doesn't consider it a "firearm" as well as an "antique pistol" as well as a "pistol" or "revolver"?)


(For what it's worth, three FFL's I talked to told me there was no need for a permit and no need for registration. But it also seems like percussion caps are impossible to get out here, so that sorta sinks the idea anyways.)

Well now I'm confused again.

I'd be the buyer, I don't have a C&R license, and I don't even have a long gun PTA at the moment. This would be a repro Remington 1858, not a C&R gun. But it'd be a cap-and-ball gun, not a cartridge conversion.

So would I need a permit to acquire, and if so what permit?

Reread the section and it does indicate you would need a permit to purchase and in this case it is a pistol so it would be a pistol permit. There is an exemption to registering black powder guns but not one for purchasing. You might be able to get one shipped to you legally under federal law but if you are buying one in state you are supposed to get a permit. 

You could probably get away with having it mailed to your house but the safest way would be to have it sent to an FFL. Maybe they would give you a discount on the FFL fee since they don't have to go and register it or do as much paperwork.

Well now I'm confused again.

I'd be the buyer, I don't have a C&R license, and I don't even have a long gun PTA at the moment. This would be a repro Remington 1858, not a C&R gun. But it'd be a cap-and-ball gun, not a cartridge conversion.

So would I need a permit to acquire, and if so what permit?


Reading the law, I don't see why I wouldn't need a permit the same as any other pistol.

"Antique pistol or revolver" means any pistol or revolver manufactured before 1899 and any replica thereof if it either is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition or is designed or redesigned to use rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
(Note that Hawaii's language here closely copies the Federal language, but excludes the part that classifies muzzle-loading black powder weapons as "antique firearms" instead of "firearms".)

So per Hawaii a cap-and-ball Remington 1858 is an "antique pistol or revolver".
I don't see where the state law cares whether anything is a muzzle loader or not.
Seems like the gun is a "firearm" according to the state definition. ("Firearm" means any weapon, for which the operating force is an explosive, including but not limited to pistols, revolvers, rifles, shotguns, automatic firearms, noxious gas projectors, mortars, bombs, and cannon.)

If it is a firearm, the barrel is under 16", so I reckon it's a "pistol or revolver".
("Pistol" or "revolver" means any firearm of any shape with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length and capable of discharging loaded ammunition or any noxious gas.)

So since it's a barrel under 16", why wouldn't I need a one-time permit to acquire?

§134-2  Permits to acquire.  (a)  No person shall acquire the ownership of a firearm, whether usable or unusable, serviceable or unserviceable, modern or antique, registered under prior law or by a prior owner or unregistered, either by purchase, gift, inheritance, bequest, or in any other manner, whether procured in the State or imported by mail, express, freight, or otherwise, until the person has first procured from the chief of police of the county of the person's place of business or, if there is no place of business, the person's residence or, if there is neither place of business nor residence, the person's place of sojourn, a permit to acquire the ownership of a firearm as prescribed in this section.
§134-2  Permits to acquire.  ... (e) ... Permits to acquire a pistol or revolver shall require a separate application and permit for each transaction. 


But obviously I'm missing something because I don't see where there's a curio & relic carveout either. (The only special rules I see for antiques is that they can't be assault pistols... Just because Federal law considers something an "antique firearm" and not a "firearm", doesn't mean Hawaii doesn't consider it a "firearm" as well as an "antique pistol" as well as a "pistol" or "revolver"?)


(For what it's worth, three FFL's I talked to told me there was no need for a permit and no need for registration. But it also seems like percussion caps are impossible to get out here, so that sorta sinks the idea anyways.)

C&R is a federal "carve out."  There are special exceptions in HI law for FFL holders, and a C&R is a class of FFL -- just limited as to the types of firearms you may use it to buy and sell, and for what purposes (not for a business).

What I would do is gather all your details on the firearm and call the HPD firearm section.  Last time i used my C&R, I spoke to Susie.  She walked me through the things I needed to have to show the age of the revolver, the C&R description page that proved it's a C&R item, and the fact that I needed a long gun permit to register it.  No permit to actually acquire, and no regular FFL needed to receive and transfer it to me.

You need to give specifics of this transaction, not speak in general terms.  The laws are very ambiguous, so the worse thing you can do is try to use them as a list of processes and procedures when you're doing something outside of a normal retail purchase of a modern firearm or an out-of-state transfer.  There are just too many "what if's' that aren't covered or even thought about in the statute.

Good luck.

Not sure how things are now, but I've had them mailed to be via UPS when Cabela's carried them at reasonable prices some ten years back, and even bought a Pietta 1858 Remmy and Ruger Old Army off Craigslist around that time too. No need to register at HPD, and the guy in front of me who brought one in to register was told he didn't need to. Again, not sure how things are now, this is not legal advice...!

I brought my Remington model 1858 cap and ball revolver with me when I moved here in 2011.  Police said I did not have to register it. I had bought it online and it was delivered to my house in Puyallup, Washington no FFL involved. Since then, I have put one in my cart, and tried to buy it at various online sellers, and they will not ship to me  in Hawaii.