Trump's suggests execution of congressmen (Read 12613 times)

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2025, 11:12:55 AM »
The Pentagon is looking into allegations against Senator Kelley for his participation with 5 other stupids of their "illegal orders" video.


What could come of it though? Senator Kelly doesn't fall under the authority of the Pentagon and the Pentagon isn't the DOJ so I am wondering what could come of a Pentagon investigation?

QUIETShooter

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2025, 11:14:03 AM »
While you guys go back and forth on feelings, Pete Hegseth will consider court martial proceedings toward Senator Kelley.

I was wondering why only Kelley is being singled out for this but there was another video that said Kelley is retired military while the others are either not military retired or are members of those stupid alphabet agencies.

Not sure why that exempts them from some kind of seditious charges.

edited to add:  The video mentioned the Pentagon will re-activate Kelley to active duty status so he can stand trial for court martial.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2025, 11:20:38 AM »
If it’s any consolation I take you seriously. It’s actually super disturbing that you aren’t concerned about losing your job because enough people in the department think the same way.

Our state government has clearly been infected by a dangerous ideology and they would kill us all if they thought they could get away with it.

So your theory here is that I am a paid operative of some local law enforcement agency sent here to disrupt a local internet forum where a dozen or so people in Hawaii complain about democrats by arguing a moderate conservative position?  Oh and that I would kill you if I could get away with it?  What about the more probable explanation, that I just disagree and am not afraid to say when I do?

Your imagination is entertaining I just don't want to get sucked down these rabbit holes because they are so often speculative and circumstantial at best but they never end and therefore can never be settled. Just don't have the time or energy to go down all of them.

QUIETShooter

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2025, 11:23:13 AM »
FAFO.

Senator Kelley, for ex-military you are pretty stupid.

Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

macsak

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #44 on: November 24, 2025, 11:44:30 AM »
please show me where he said that...

So your theory here is that I am a paid operative of some local law enforcement agency sent here to disrupt a local internet forum where a dozen or so people in Hawaii complain about democrats by arguing a moderate conservative position?  Oh and that I would kill you if I could get away with it?  What about the more probable explanation, that I just disagree and am not afraid to say when I do?

Your imagination is entertaining I just don't want to get sucked down these rabbit holes because they are so often speculative and circumstantial at best but they never end and therefore can never be settled. Just don't have the time or energy to go down all of them.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #45 on: November 24, 2025, 11:47:24 AM »
While you guys go back and forth on feelings, Pete Hegseth will consider court martial proceedings toward Senator Kelley.

I was wondering why only Kelley is being singled out for this but there was another video that said Kelley is retired military while the others are either not military retired or are members of those stupid alphabet agencies.

Not sure why that exempts them from some kind of seditious charges.

edited to add:  The video mentioned the Pentagon will re-activate Kelley to active duty status so he can stand trial for court martial.

I tried to find an answer to the question and came across a CNN article where a legal professor stated:
https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/24/politics/kelly-recall-service-pentagon#:~:text=Steve%20Vladeck%2C%20a%20professor%20of,to%20court%2Dmartial%20retired%20servicemembers.

Steve Vladeck, a professor of law at the Georgetown University Law Center and a CNN legal analyst, said that a court martial for Kelly is technically a viable option for the Pentagon because three different appellate courts have upheld that it’s constitutional to court-martial retired servicemembers. But the Kelly case “is pretty powerful proof” of why that should not be an option, Vladeck said.

“Going all the way back to the Founding, we’ve been wary of the exercise of military jurisdiction over civilians — so much so that the Supreme Court has struck down statutes authorizing courts-martial of, e.g., former servicemembers; military contractors; and the dependents of servicemembers,” Vladeck said. “Retired servicemembers differ in that they remain at least theoretically subject to recall, but it still makes no sense to subject individuals to military jurisdiction in perpetuity just because, at some point in the past, they were on active duty.”


I read some more legal websites and there were a few cases where retired military members were charged under the UCMJ but the difference is that what they were accused of doing were crimes whether under regular law or military law. One was rape and the other was a child porn case whereas that the congressmen did in the video was not a crime on the civilian side even if it may have violated the UCMJ so these cases aren't the best thing to compare this issue to.

That at least helps understand how it would be theoretically possible for the Pentagon to do something but the precedent it could set would be pretty concerning. Under the UCMJ adultery is illegal, could a retired soldier who commits adultery be re-activated in order to then be charged? How else could this be used and abused by future administrations? Could a democrat re-activate a retired servicemember to keep them from running for an office? Could a democrat president re-activate a retired service member to punish them for something they said against a democrat president? What we are talking about is trying to use the UCMJ to punish/control speech of anyone who has ever served in the military before and giving any president the power to do that is very concerning.

What specific UCMJ code do you think he violated?


I didn't respond to your initial post because you were basically making the argument that the video was terrible to make. I can certainly see the arguments that the video was not the right way of approaching the issue or that it was not something they should have done while my post was critical about Trump's response so I didn't reply. But since you mentioned sedition I will point out that there is no way this meets the crime of sedition (seditious conspiracy) by any stretch of the wording of the law and if it did, that would open pandora's box into prosecuting what is currently considered protected free speech.

As far as why Kelly is being singled out it could be because he is the most prominent of the congressmen in the video. He's been to combat, been to space, was among a name of people as a democratic presidential candidate, etc. Maybe they are picking on the biggest one to make an example out of?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2025, 12:37:04 PM by eyeeatingfish »

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #46 on: November 24, 2025, 11:48:18 AM »
please show me where he said that...

 ::) ::) ::)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #47 on: November 24, 2025, 12:00:04 PM »
You are reading into something that isn't there.

I do not profit from clicks like one might on other social media and I obviously do not post with the intention of feeling validated by a crowd of like-minded people so I do not have some ulterior motive, I am not deceiving anyone with such tactics as interspersing reasonable sounding arguments. Dishonesty is not within my nature and I have no motive, nothing to gain here, by tricking you. Not sure what I would be tricking you into anyway... Confuse you into becoming a moderate conservative?

Meaningless back and forths? I find meaning in two or more different ideas challenging each other but if you do not that's fine. Do you find Charlie Kirk's change my mind type discussions meaningless as well?
What I find meaningless is a bunch of people in an echo chamber patting each other on the back for repeating tribal mantras. I am not saying that is you, just referring to what forums like this would be if no one ever shared a position that wasn't in line with what the majority thought. 

Flapp is dishonest and will have you believe I am making it about me, despite a complete absence of any evidence of such. Nothing about this post is about me, not until flapp made it about me. Rather blatant dishonesty to attack someone and when they defend themselves claim they are making it about themselves but flapp doesn't shy away from dishonest debate tactics.
The meaningless back and forth posts are the threads you drag off topic to argue about things unrelated to the issue.  You know, all the times you said if someone says something insulting to you or says something you disagree with, you're going to respond in kind?  That's the meaningless back and forth.

As for truthfulness, you started this topic with a comment that plainly says shooting Trump may be justified.  No equivocation of qualification other than "if he continues down this path."  That could mean tomorrow or never.  Yet, you crossed the line into assassinations being justified.

Posting that opinion was how you made this all about you and your interpretation of the second amendment.

"I suggest you read my comment about Trump more closer because I didn't say killing him would be justified at this point. I was speaking about the future, farther down the road if/when Trump turns into a tyrannical leader. Remember, that's one of the main reasons we have the 2nd amendment."

That's not fact-based.  That's all about you and your interpretation.  Show ONE reliable source that follows your reasoning.  Otherwise, you and ONLY YOU are promoting assassination whether it's now or in the future -- doesn't matter when.  Our government is constructed so no one person is crowned king.  If Trump suffered a catastrophic health event tomorrow and dies, the government would not stop.  Same result "in the future" if he tried to take control of the entire government.  He may have the military at his disposal, but he can't use it to effect a coup d'état.  He'd need all the military leaders in his camp to make sure they all supported him before they would obey such actions.

Yep, this is you making incendiary comments to become the focus of the issue rather than discussing the issue in the real world.
 
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #48 on: November 24, 2025, 12:07:57 PM »
why the eye rolls?
others have said it previously, but hvy said nothing of the sort
unless you can prove otherwise...

::) ::) ::)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #49 on: November 24, 2025, 12:12:30 PM »
why the eye rolls?
others have said it previously, but hvy said nothing of the sort
unless you can prove otherwise...
He's behind on his monthly quota for disruptive posts.

The eye roll reply counts as one.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

hvybarrels

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #50 on: November 24, 2025, 12:13:55 PM »
So your theory here is that I am a paid operative of some local law enforcement agency sent here to disrupt a local internet forum where a dozen or so people in Hawaii complain about democrats by arguing a moderate conservative position?  Oh and that I would kill you if I could get away with it?  What about the more probable explanation, that I just disagree and am not afraid to say when I do?

Your imagination is entertaining I just don't want to get sucked down these rabbit holes because they are so often speculative and circumstantial at best but they never end and therefore can never be settled. Just don't have the time or energy to go down all of them.

1. You advocated for assassinating the president over a policy disagreement
3. Left wing violence is off the charts recently, so there is absolutely no question about the intent to incite.
2. You aren't concerned about it affecting your career or you freedom, which means you believe your comrades in government will give you cover.

Therefore it's safe to assume the Hawaii state government has been infected by a dangerous ideology and can only be solved with mass layoffs.


I’m becoming clinically undepressed and thinking about beginning it all.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #51 on: November 24, 2025, 12:36:10 PM »
He's behind on his monthly quota for disruptive posts.

The eye roll reply counts as one.

Wrong, the eye roll only indicates I didn't miss his post, it just wasn't worth responding to.

macsak

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #52 on: November 24, 2025, 12:40:30 PM »
focus
eye rolls ARE a response...

Wrong, the eye roll only indicates I didn't miss his post, it just wasn't worth responding to.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #53 on: November 24, 2025, 12:43:18 PM »
focus
eye rolls ARE a response...
Anytime he quotes someone's post, types or uploads something, then hit's the Post button , it's a response.

But, i'm sure he'll be glad to engage in a meaningless back-and-forth exchange trying to prove me wrong.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #54 on: November 24, 2025, 12:48:29 PM »
1. You advocated for assassinating the president over a policy disagreement

No I didn't. I stated that if Trump continues down this path into that in the future an assassin's bullet may be justifiable. Talking about a hypothetical future is not advocating for his assassination. If you found a person looking into your window at night and said to him "If you break into my house I will shoot you" that wouldn't be a threat or advocating for his death. Additionally this has nothing to do with a policy disagreement, it had to do with Trump's tossing out the idea of executing congressmen over a disagreement about the legality of military orders.

 
Quote
3. Left wing violence is off the charts recently, so there is absolutely no question about the intent to incite.

No qualm with the first half of the sentence however as for the second half, you cannot use the general rise of left wing violence as proof of a specific left wing person's intent. Furthermore there was nothing they said that would incite violence, at best it would incite some soldiers to not follow orders which obviously isn't violence.


Quote
2. You aren't concerned about it affecting your career or you freedom, which means you believe your comrades in government will give you cover.

Am I concerned about it affecting my career or my freedom? No because I have said nothing that is either illegal or violates any of the rules of my employer. There is nothing anyone would need to cover for, I know the bounds of free speech and what constitutes a criminal threat and I stay well within those bounds.


Quote
Therefore it's safe to assume the Hawaii state government has been infected by a dangerous ideology and can only be solved with mass layoffs.

That, my friend, is a non-sequitur.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #55 on: November 24, 2025, 12:49:16 PM »
focus
eye rolls ARE a response...

Touche, enjoy your big win.  :thumbsup:

hvybarrels

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #56 on: November 24, 2025, 12:53:05 PM »
I’m becoming clinically undepressed and thinking about beginning it all.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #57 on: November 24, 2025, 01:05:56 PM »
The meaningless back and forth posts are the threads you drag off topic to argue about things unrelated to the issue.

You play the victim card better than a liberal. Did you not notice who started this topic? The only one dragging it off topic is you.


Quote
You know, all the times you said if someone says something insulting to you or says something you disagree with, you're going to respond in kind?  That's the meaningless back and forth.

If someone disagrees with me and we engage the points of contention I don't know why you are characterizing that as meaningless. If someone insults me and I insult back perhaps that is meaningless back and forth but that would make you just as guilty (if not more) as me.


Quote
As for truthfulness, you started this topic with a comment that plainly says shooting Trump may be justified.  No equivocation of qualification other than "if he continues down this path."  That could mean tomorrow or never.  Yet, you crossed the line into assassinations being justified.

Are you saying that force against a tyrannical leader is never justifiable?


Quote
Posting that opinion was how you made this all about you and your interpretation of the second amendment.

Posting an opinion makes it about oneself? By that definition almost everyone who posts in this section is making it about themselves since they are usually giving an opinion.

Quote
"I suggest you read my comment about Trump more closer because I didn't say killing him would be justified at this point. I was speaking about the future, farther down the road if/when Trump turns into a tyrannical leader. Remember, that's one of the main reasons we have the 2nd amendment."

That's not fact-based.  That's all about you and your interpretation.  Show ONE reliable source that follows your reasoning.  Otherwise, you and ONLY YOU are promoting assassination whether it's now or in the future -- doesn't matter when.  Our government is constructed so no one person is crowned king.  If Trump suffered a catastrophic health event tomorrow and dies, the government would not stop.  Same result "in the future" if he tried to take control of the entire government.  He may have the military at his disposal, but he can't use it to effect a coup d'état.  He'd need all the military leaders in his camp to make sure they all supported him before they would obey such actions.

Fact based? I used a logical line of reasoning to undermine your position. There is not some statistic or news story to cite here.

"He may have the military at his disposal, but he can't use it to effect a coup d'état."

Because never in history has a leader used a portion of the military to take control? Not a history buff are you?


Quote
Yep, this is you making incendiary comments to become the focus of the issue rather than discussing the issue in the real world.

An incendiary comment? Perhaps, but the rest is wrong and unfounded. I am discussing the issue in the real world, tyrannical leaders don't become so overnight. You are trying to make this about me otherwise you would attack the stance I presented but instead you attack me, like you often, but not always, do.

How would you have taken it if Biden, as president, had suggested Trump be executed for something that was not even a crime?

macsak

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #58 on: November 24, 2025, 01:12:37 PM »
i'll let you have the last post in this aside...

Touche, enjoy your big win.  :thumbsup:

QUIETShooter

Re: Trump's suggests execution of congressmen
« Reply #59 on: November 24, 2025, 01:26:40 PM »
I've been reading some of the comments on social media.  Many are saying the video saying not to obey illegal orders is and of itself not illegal.

Ok.  Agreed.  So WTF was the video made for?  Commenting on the obvious just for shits and giggles?

No.  The video was saying without saying that Trump's orders were illegal.  Snakes in the grass.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.