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the Aloha spirit.... (Read 836 times)

hvybarrels

Re: the Aloha spirit....
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2026, 11:34:35 PM »
Younger men are really fast and good at attacking the blind spots of someone who is distracted. Getting older makes it more difficult  to whip around and solve problems coming from all different directions. Also assisting someone who is unconscious/immobilized creates another series of vulnerabilities.

The security guys who escort journalists through riot zones are typically younger and have specialized training. Then again the more experienced security guys are probably like “this is a bad idea and the risk isn’t worth the money”.
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Kalihi Uka

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Re: the Aloha spirit....
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2026, 08:57:48 AM »
There is completely understandable reservation on the part of folks thinking about confronting a violent mob attacking some guy.

Many practical considerations and cautions with respect to the use of deadly force (which appears justified here).

I wonder how police would handle - would they rely on respect for the uniform/blue lights & sirens to cause dispersement?  Wish I was familiar with that training.

What if, instead of a guy(s) being beaten, it was a girl or woman being gang-raped? - and you were there.

Would that change anyone so reasonably reticent to intervene into one compelled to act?

How many would lay their lives down for another.

If not, what are you here for?

Not being confrontational or holier than thou by this whatsoever - last guy in the world to wear that mantle.

It’s the nature of this world that poses the question to us here.

********
Update:

Sorry guys - forget that drivel above.

I’d just shoot this Mf*+#~r, dead.



https://www.staradvertiser.com/2026/06/03/breaking-news/hpd-releases-photo-of-another-suspect-in-waialee-beach-assault/

« Last Edit: June 04, 2026, 11:19:46 AM by Kalihi Uka »
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Westside_Redneck

Re: the Aloha spirit....
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2026, 01:06:48 PM »
Quote from: Kalihi Uka on June 04, 2026, 08:57:48 AM
I’d just shoot this Mf*+#~r, dead.



https://www.staradvertiser.com/2026/06/03/breaking-news/hpd-releases-photo-of-another-suspect-in-waialee-beach-assault/

How much you wanna wager this guy is the gang leader? The "groomer" who's got a mob of depraved lost losers around his finger
whom he could entice to be his "foot soldiers" to aid him in his anti-social antics?
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Kalihi Uka

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Re: the Aloha spirit....
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2026, 01:40:05 PM »
Quote from: Westside_Redneck on June 04, 2026, 01:06:48 PM
How much you wanna wager this guy is the gang leader? The "groomer" who's got a mob of depraved lost losers around his finger
whom he could entice to be his "foot soldiers" to aid him in his anti-social antics?
Could be.

All I can say is I know some .357 Magnum JHP’s who see him as the end of a very short and satisfying trip.
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Rocky

Re: the Aloha spirit....
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2026, 02:17:41 PM »
Quote from: Kalihi Uka on June 03, 2026, 06:52:26 PM

Lets play D A.
 
''Another possi.bility is to come in hot in your vehicle (assuming this is an option), brights on, horn blaring, to disperse them, or at least distract them from their victim.''
YOU HAVE JUST INSERTED YOURSELF INTO THE SITUATION POSSIBLY LOSING YOUR JUSTIFICATION FOR JUSTIFIABLE DEADLY FORCE

''Exit armed ordering them to disperse. ''
YOU HAVE NOW JUST COMMITTED TERRORISTIC THREATENING

''If some continue the assault, then proceed with what you suggest.''
 SEE MY FIRST COMMENT

Since these are real events on our island that any one of us could be witness to, I believe it’s of benefit to throw out suggestions with respect to how to best respond.
I  HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS ALSO AND CONSIDERED DISCHARGING ROUNDS IN AIR, OVER OCEAN, IN SAND TO HOPEFULLY DISPERSE THE CROWD WITHOUT LOSS OF LIFE BUT THEN IT GOES BACK TO CHARGES OF TERRORISTIC THREATENING AND POSSIBLE ATTEMPTED MANSLAUGHTER EVEN IF SUCESSFUL. IF UNSUCCESSFUL, I'VE JUST EXPOSED MYSELF AND WASTED SEVERAL OF 10 ROUNDS IN A GROUP OF ALREADY VIOLENT POSSIBLY ARMED INDIVIDUALS.

   I tend to discuss the defense of others in my classes fairly heavily.
Unless you are personally knowledgeable of all participants, history and events, your  interacting is a crap shoot.
Pun intended.
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hvybarrels

Re: the Aloha spirit....
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2026, 02:25:09 PM »
Gangs use child soldiers for a variety of reasons. One is the leniency in prosecution. Another is that people who still have a shred of humanity tend to hesitate when shooting at kids. If the cops show up and you are surrounded by a bunch of 15yo corpses it’s probably going to take a few years and hundreds of thousands of dollars to unpack. Sure they were trying to murder you like a pack of rabid chimps, but in front of a jury they transform into choirboys who helped old ladies across the street.
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Kalihi Uka

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Re: the Aloha spirit....
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2026, 02:27:35 PM »
Quote from: Rocky on June 04, 2026, 02:17:41 PM

Lets play D A.
 
''Another possi.bility is to come in hot in your vehicle (assuming this is an option), brights on, horn blaring, to disperse them, or at least distract them from their victim.''
YOU HAVE JUST INSERTED YOURSELF INTO THE SITUATION POSSIBLY LOSING YOUR JUSTIFICATION FOR JUSTIFIABLE DEADLY FORCE

''Exit armed ordering them to disperse. ''
YOU HAVE NOW JUST COMMITTED TERRORISTIC THREATENING

''If some continue the assault, then proceed with what you suggest.''
 SEE MY FIRST COMMENT

Since these are real events on our island that any one of us could be witness to, I believe it’s of benefit to throw out suggestions with respect to how to best respond.
I  HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS ALSO AND CONSIDERED DISCHARGING ROUNDS IN AIR, OVER OCEAN, IN SAND TO HOPEFULLY DISPERSE THE CROWD WITHOUT LOSS OF LIFE BUT THEN IT GOES BACK TO CHARGES OF TERRORISTIC THREATENING AND POSSIBLE ATTEMPTED MANSLAUGHTER EVEN IF SUCESSFUL. IF UNSUCCESSFUL, I'VE JUST EXPOSED MYSELF AND WASTED SEVERAL OF 10 ROUNDS IN A GROUP OF ALREADY VIOLENT POSSIBLY ARMED INDIVIDUALS.

   I tend to discuss the defense of others in my classes fairly heavily.
Unless you are personally knowledgeable of all participants, history and events, your  interacting is a crap shoot.
Pun intended.

Assuming you are serious here, I included this comment above, for guys like you:

“But let’s look at it the other way, and say that, for fear of wrongful prosecution by the local Khmer Rouge, you don’t, and they kill your son (or anyone, for that matter).

You forever own the guilt of letting an innocent be killed via inaction in compliance with an unlawful and evil regime.  Some people can live with that, and some people just. will. not. - like the Lifeguard friend.”

No DA is is a substitute for God, my friend.


…. oh, also, your comments seem to indicate we’re talking about a bunch of guys having a beer in a parking lot.

Mine relate to a mob in the act of trying to beat someone to death.

Maybe that’s the disconnect.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2026, 02:43:30 PM by Kalihi Uka »
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Rocky

Re: the Aloha spirit....
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2026, 03:14:38 PM »
Quote from: Kalihi Uka on June 04, 2026, 02:27:35 PM
       Assuming you are serious here, I included this comment above, for guys like you:
I see no "comment above" and yes I was serious regarding the possible legal repercussions

      “But let’s look at it the other way, and say that, for fear of wrongful prosecution by the local Khmer Rouge, you don’t, and they kill your son (or anyone, for that matter).
My comment was on the topic of another unknown individual, not my son. My family and friends are a given as I  am already personally knowledgeable of them.
"anyone, for that matter" falls under "Unless you are personally knowledgeable of all participants, history and events"

      You forever own the guilt of letting an innocent be killed via inaction in compliance with an unlawful and evil regime. 
 Upon arriving at the scene, do I know who is innocent ? Do I know who's guilty ?
What if it's some father beating the $#1t outta some punk that he just caught raping his 12 yr old daughter. Would shooting him be right in my (or your) eyes ?
Or I'm walking past an alley and there is a women screaming rape as a disheveled figure restrains her and he has a gun. I shoot him dead only to find out he is (was) an undercover cop arresting a drug dealer/prostitute ?
Unless you are personally knowledgeable of all participants, history and events, your  interacting is a crap shoot.

     Some people can live with that, and some people just. will. not. - like the Lifeguard friend.”
As you have noted and as is discussed elsewhere, the "Lifeguard friend'  and the 15yr old were acquaintances' so there was personally knowledge between those two participants with some possible history ? (Don't know for sure the story is still evolving.)
You asked us  "to throw out suggestions with respect to how to best respond." and I did after listing the possible repercussions of your suggested actions.
In no way did I infer I would do nothing in that particular situation.

     No DA is is a substitute for God, my friend.
To even consider comparing a DA to God is bordering Blasphemy
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Kalihi Uka

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Re: the Aloha spirit....
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2026, 03:51:29 PM »
Quote from: Rocky on June 04, 2026, 03:14:38 PM

Unless you are personally knowledgeable of all participants, history and events, your interacting is a crap shoot.

This type standard ensures a nice personal safe-harbor for justifiable inaction, however it’s not an expectation of the code:

“§703-305  Use of force for the protection of other persons.


(1)  Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 703-310, the use of force upon or toward the person of another is justifiable to protect a third person when:
     (a)  Under the circumstances as the actor believes them to be, the person whom the actor seeks to protect would be justified in using such protective force; and
     (b)  The actor believes that the actor's intervention is necessary for the protection of the other person.
(2)  Notwithstanding subsection (1):
     (a)  When the actor would be obliged under section 703-304 to retreat, to surrender the possession of a thing, or to comply with a demand before using force in self-protection, the actor is not obliged to do so before using force for the protection of another person, unless the actor knows that the actor can thereby secure the complete safety of such other person;
     (b)  When the person whom the actor seeks to protect would be obliged under section 703-304 to retreat, to surrender the possession of a thing or to comply with a demand if the person knew that the person could obtain complete safety by so doing, the actor is obliged to try to cause the person to do so before using force in the person's protection if the actor knows that the actor can obtain the other's complete safety in that way; and
     (c)  Neither the actor nor the person whom the actor seeks to protect is obliged to retreat when in the other's dwelling or place of work to any greater extent than in the actor's or the person's own. [L 1972, c 9, pt of §1; gen ch 1993]”

Let’s just leave it where it stands: The code, and one’s conscience.

“To even consider comparing a DA to God is bordering Blasphemy” - Good, then you are in the right frame of reference for determining the standards of your personal conduct.  Fear of wrongful prosecution for doing what you believe is right cannot be the governing standard then.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2026, 04:01:04 PM by Kalihi Uka »
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