Action bays should be open to all, not just clubs.  Give the CMP guys their space, and the practical guys theirs to use their firearms as intended.

My repost.....

"Per NRA and CMP rules, rapidfire is 5 rounds in 10 seconds at the 25 yardline shooting one-handed for Bullseye Pistol.

For High Power Rifle, it is 10 rounds (2 magazines loaded with 2/8 or 5/5), sitting position, iron sights, 200yards, 60 seconds. At 300yards you get 70 seconds in the prone position.

Much of Koko Head rules were modeled from NRA and CMP style shooting"

If you cannot keep your shots on target shooting slow, then don't even try to do it fast.  Work on accuracy, before speed.

Mag dumpers are idiots that waste resources. Ammo is hard enough to get these days.

There's plenty of people that can shoot accurately at a much faster pace then what you quote. Just because the range was modeled from NRA and CMP style shooting doesn't mean its the right and only way someone can shoot. The percentage of shooters who are actually interested in such style shooting is low and most definitely in the minority. There's plenty people with different needs and interests when it comes to shooting and without their interest, participation, and support you can kiss your 2a rights good bye.

Action bays should be open to all, not just clubs.  Give the CMP guys their space, and the practical guys theirs to use their firearms as intended.

Agreed. Its a bit silly how many hoops you have to jump through to use the bays.

Cougars are not looking for you old guys. They want some young stud muffins. I should know, they ignore me all the time. 

Lol

There's plenty of people that can shoot accurately at a much faster pace then what you quote. Just because the range was modeled from NRA and CMP style shooting doesn't mean its the right and only way someone can shoot. The percentage of shooters who are actually interested in such style shooting is low and most definitely in the minority. There's plenty people with different needs and interests when it comes to shooting and without their interest, participation, and support you can kiss your 2a rights good bye.

The action bays may be reserved by private clubs for the shooters that want to rat-a-tat-tat in a fast and furious manner at big targets at close range. Clubs are allowed to reserve areas of the range for their prefered sport for a fee. Chinese Gun Club does Bulleye Pistol. Rhat Rhat and MPPL does IPSC. There is also SASS and IHMSA, Trap, Skeet, Smallbore Prone League. They have membership fees, rules, by-laws, and insurance to cover the activity they participate in.

Find a club that floats your boat and shoot with them.

The public side of Koko Head Shooting Complex (Known Distance Rifle and Pistol) does not charge a fee, but has greater control measures in the way of safety.

The action bays may be reserved by private clubs for the shooters that want to rat-a-tat-tat in a fast and furious manner at big targets at close range. Clubs are allowed to reserve areas of the range for their prefered sport for a fee.

How much is the fee? 

I didn't know you had to be with a club to use the action bays. I've seen some people set up and shoot; I've also witnessed one guy walk around the whole complex with a holstered pistol and no he had no badge.

There's plenty of people that can shoot accurately at a much faster pace then what you quote. Just because the range was modeled from NRA and CMP style shooting doesn't mean its the right and only way someone can shoot. The percentage of shooters who are actually interested in such style shooting is low and most definitely in the minority. There's plenty people with different needs and interests when it comes to shooting and without their interest, participation, and support you can kiss your 2a rights good bye.

I'd be interested to see that person. The most fastest and accurate shooter I met was with the All Guard team. 60 seconds, ten rounds into a 3" group at 200 yards with iron sights, sitting. I was the target puller for that shooter.There's probably better at the AMU, Marine Corps team etc - and not just the service rifle shooters.
I agree that we all must come to a consensus but recently I've seen more haphazard shooters that are new to the sport. Doing a 30 round mag dump in less than a minute with no target setup is a waste. Great drill for what ever muscle memory exercise but it is pointless. I'm referring to a shooter at Kokohead that did this till a range officer scolded them. They continued rabid firing with a 10/22 and taking turns looking out for the RO. That's not cool. There's Schofield for that.
In defense of highpower shooting, yes there seems to be less interest in that kind of shooting. A well seasoned Marine referred to it as shooting with the big boys and I've seen people walk away with their tales between their legs - myself included. It takes a certain amount of character to learn, be resilient enough to come back and improve. Some people have a somewhat natural talent for it and shoot well. Some like myself take longer to learn.
We can argue forever but Kokohead range rules are that. Schofield range rules are different and shooters can rabid fire all day there.

I'd be interested to see that person. The most fastest and accurate shooter I met was with the All Guard team. 60 seconds, ten rounds into a 3" group at 200 yards with iron sights, sitting. I was the target puller for that shooter.There's probably better at the AMU, Marine Corps team etc - and not just the service rifle shooters.
I agree that we all must come to a consensus but recently I've seen more haphazard shooters that are new to the sport. Doing a 30 round mag dump in less than a minute with no target setup is a waste. Great drill for what ever muscle memory exercise but it is pointless. I'm referring to a shooter at Kokohead that did this till a range officer scolded them. They continued rabid firing with a 10/22 and taking turns looking out for the RO. That's not cool. There's Schofield for that.
In defense of highpower shooting, yes there seems to be less interest in that kind of shooting. A well seasoned Marine referred to it as shooting with the big boys and I've seen people walk away with their tales between their legs - myself included. It takes a certain amount of character to learn, be resilient enough to come back and improve. Some people have a somewhat natural talent for it and shoot well. Some like myself take longer to learn.
We can argue forever but Kokohead range rules are that. Schofield range rules are different and shooters can rabid fire all day there.

I agree rules are rules, but my point is people have different needs. For me thats shooting offhand (standing up with no support). I have a friend who can put 10 rounds within a 6" plate at 100 yards within 10 seconds, shooting offhand (I don't get out enough, I need an 10" plate to land all hits within 10 seconds). I have no need or desire to be able to put 10 shots within a 3" group at 200 yards with iron sights while sitting. If I want to shoot for groups at 200 yards I'll use a bipod and a scope.. and it won't take me 60 seconds.

I also agree its a fine line to draw between the new haphazard shooters and the people who actually safely train and have a need. I just don't think its fair to discount everyone who doesn't follow the NRA/CMP style of shooting (and lets face it, this is most definitely the minority of shooters these days).

Again we can argue forever about the future of the 2A and the shooting sports in general.

I'm not as seasoned or experienced as Teichi, but I think rules are there because something happened that warranted it. i.e. the IPSC shooter that shot himself in the leg/foot many years ago.

Perhaps we could petition for a rules change at Kokohead?
That's one of the reasons why I joined Schofield. Different rules and an occasional mag dump is fun.

Again we can argue forever about the future of the 2A and the shooting sports in general.
I think since its a C&C park, can we petition for a change in rules? Just a thought.

I think the easiest way to do it would be to open up the bays during the week. At the moment the bays can only be reserved by a club on weekends.. if they let clubs (which governed themselves and carried insurance) book the bays during the week it would really free things up and give people more chances to work on the specific shooting they wanted to improve.

I think the easiest way to do it would be to open up the bays during the week. At the moment the bays can only be reserved by a club on weekends.. if they let clubs (which governed themselves and carried insurance) book the bays during the week it would really free things up and give people more chances to work on the specific shooting they wanted to improve.

That has come up as discussion at Puuloa. We were talking about perhaps bringing down MagPul instructors awhile ago,  but they are pricey.

That has come up as discussion at Puuloa. We were talking about perhaps bringing down MagPul instructors awhile ago,  but they are pricey.

It was my understanding that the previous installation commander (not sure if the current on is the same one as this would be about 18 months ago) was against allowing/hosting training for civilians.  I came across this when I was looking to make arrangements to bring a couple of different carbine instructors/courses to come to town. 

Maybe this has changed since then, but I haven't looked into that for a while. 

As for the 5 round rule, there are many ranges on the mainland that only allows load one, shoot one.  That would be aweful. 

It was my understanding that the previous installation commander (not sure if the current on is the same one as this would be about 18 months ago) was against allowing/hosting training for civilians.  I came across this when I was looking to make arrangements to bring a couple of different carbine instructors/courses to come to town. 

Maybe this has changed since then, but I haven't looked into that for a while. 

As for the 5 round rule, there are many ranges on the mainland that only allows load one, shoot one.  That would be aweful.

That's not true. I was also referring to the Kokohead action bays.
In regards to the Marine Corps, the real issue was profiting from the use of its ranges. It has nothing to do with training for civies, in fact, the Pac Divs allowed civilians. I am referring to the individual(s) that brought down Gabe Suarez, Chuck Taylor and used Puuloa. that was done without club approval. Fees were charged but no one compensated the club for the use of its insurance and use of our targets.You can't tell me with a straight face that the person(s) involved did not make a profit. $400 x 12 shooters over 2 days?! with no range fees etc. C'mon. If you peruse a certain gun shop's website and take a look, those are the club's targets. It takes a lot of work to construct and maintain those things. To say that we were pissed is an understatement. Furthermore, the Marine Corps prohibited this type of activity. This is not hearsay as we discussed this a few years ago at length with G3.

That's not true. I was also referring to the Kokohead action bays.
In regards to the Marine Corps, the real issue was profiting from the use of its ranges. It has nothing to do with training for civies, in fact, the Pac Divs allowed civilians. I am referring to the individual(s) that brought down Gabe Suarez, Chuck Taylor and used Puuloa. that was done without club approval. Fees were charged but no one compensated the club for the use of its insurance and use of our targets.You can't tell me with a straight face that the person(s) involved did not make a profit. $400 x 12 shooters over 2 days?! with no range fees etc. C'mon. If you peruse a certain gun shop's website and take a look, those are the club's targets. It takes a lot of work to construct and maintain those things. To say that we were pissed is an understatement. Furthermore, the Marine Corps prohibited this type of activity. This is not hearsay as we discussed this a few years ago at length with G3.

Umm, ok.  I was NOT part of that as an participant nor involved in any way with that class(es).  That was actually before I was interested in that type of training.  I am familiar with the event(s) you are referring to, but that way way before my time. 

I personally looked into bringing Redback One to Honolulu (and Kyle Defoors as well) and the information I posted previously was from my brief discussion with a Puuloa member and through my work contacts (I work for NAVFAC PAC)  in the Marine Corps.  Sounds like I was talking to the wrong people, didn't know what was/is up, or just gave me the quick answer.  I don't know.  All I know is that myself and another Hawaii member of M4C got shut down in every avenue that we explored to try to make that happen and that included the Puuloa facility.  Not saying that the facility of the club is/was at fault, just maybe we didn't know the proper channel or procedure.   

I hear you about building and maintaining the target stands.  I have helped build some with SRGC and I wouldn't be happy if they were used (shot up) in a class that the club did not benefit from. 

That said, if someone can secure a facility, I'd be down in training locally.  I have a friend that is developing a private range on Kauai, but they haven't developed it that much yet beyond a pistol bay.

It was my understanding that the previous installation commander (not sure if the current on is the same one as this would be about 18 months ago) was against allowing/hosting training for civilians.  I came across this when I was looking to make arrangements to bring a couple of different carbine instructors/courses to come to town. 

Maybe this has changed since then, but I haven't looked into that for a while. 

As for the 5 round rule, there are many ranges on the mainland that only allows load one, shoot one.  That would be aweful.

loading 1 round at a time would be such a PITA. I would save a lot of ammo though

Safety is a major concern in most activities. The reductions of negligent and possibly fatal discharges can be mitigated by limiting the magazine capacity. Bumpfire/slamfire does happen. Not everyone keeps the finger off the trigger till ready to fire. People do not always know that the firearm is unloaded.

Take some time to study the roof, benches and baffles at Koko Head. You may notice a bunch of holes that were not made by large caliber termites. Some were actually weapons malfunctions. Some were people trying to shoot as fast as they could and fell backward. Some were just plain bad gun handling skills.

5 rounds per mag for the public side of Kokohead as a general range rule is OK by me. Higher round count at the silhouette and action bays are acceptable if they shoot safely.

I'd also add in defense of the rules at Kokohead, not everyone is as well versed in safety as the posters here on 2A.
To put things to light, not every firearm owner is a member of the NRA nor are they as passionate about their rights as the posters here on 2A. For those of that do care and are passionate about our right and sport it is our responsibility to educate those "newbies" at the range in a tactful way. It's a challenge as I've reminded some shooters and only get a stink eye.Some shooters don't see the reason for the rules - but as I stated something happened to warrant a rule. There are not enough ROs to police the range. Some of them even help with gun malfunctions beyond the responsibility of RO duties. Ever been at a military qualification and asked for an M16 front sight tool? You'd think that after all these DECADES soldiers would have this as part of their issued cleaning kit. Sure you can use a nail/bullet tip but how long does that take? And how messed up does the front sight get? Some ROs lend out their own tool kits to help.
Anyways, you get the picture.

I TOTALLY agre with the above 2 posts.   

But I thought this post was about the damn 20 to 21 year old KIDS that keep showing up with their rifles UNSUPERVISED !   

damn kids