Alright, couldn't really think of a catchy title, but here is the meat of the thought.

If you could ask the government anything, in relation to firearms, in Hawaii... what would it be?

Not sure if this qualifies but here goes.


1.  Why is taking so long to approve the development of local indoor ranges in Hawaii? 


2.  Is it really necessary to register firearms in Hawaii?  Seems like it 's just a waste of resource, time , and money on the Hawaii governments parts.

I'm assuming you mean what questions we would ask if our politicians were given truth serum and had to be 100% honest...

1) Why, SPECIFICALLY, they are against CCW (and guns in general) here.

2) Why are they completely disinterested in having an honest debate about the topic instead of their decisions being based solely on fear and ignorance. 

3) What would it take for Hawaii to become a pro-2nd Amendment state.

- Alex

The answer to some of the questions lie in the Government "knows best" mentality of the local people.
 
Remember that most established ethnicities started out as Plantation workers.  Forced to follow strict rules to get
anywhere.  Getting out of the plantation took great effort.  As each ethnic group got out, other groups were brought
in to replace them.  Same rules.
 
Only recently with the influx of ethnicities Not associated with plantations has there begun serious questioning of the
"we know best" thinking. 
 
Seen best as the newer younger generations come up and question things, this is a good thing.  But, most of them,
like many here are reinventing the wheel. 
 
If in their zeal(again a good thing), if they stopped to ask us "older guys" what the deal is, we can give them litterally "tons"
of institutional knowledge, history and background of a lot of stuff about Hawaii.
 
Take for example, my "legal" friend.  Same age as me, but, different life experiences.  Different kind of wife.  Both did well and
know a lot of people and even More knowledge about Hawaii and it's politics.
 
I really want him to write a book based on his life experiences.  What he knows.......  Definately will have to change names if
that book is written.
 
Take "Hawaii" by James Michner, many of my friends sort of recognize their families in some of the parts of the book.  While not
about "their" family in particular, but close enough in the really what happened historical events.
 
Asking why will not get the change you want. 
 
Getting together behind a PAC, putting Money and time into the organization and rejuvinating it will make a difference.
 
Most likely there are is a vast number of new young people out there who "Want" change, but are unwilling to really get involved poitically.
Prefer to ride the backs of those that do all the work.  Well, what are they going o do when we quit doing the work?
Do they know what we know and how to get things done?  Do they have our octopus like contacts?
The "stories" we can tell......
 
Trying to stay off the radar will not work because as soon as they register one gun, they're in the files.  Who knows what "they"
really do with that information.
 
I've been called Paranoid, But, I prefer the term "Cautious" instead.
 
Something for fence sitters to think about.
 
 

 
Trying to stay off the radar will not work because as soon as they register one gun, they're in the files.  Who knows what "they"really do with that information.

Argh, having a killer problem with the bold.. it doesnt wan't to unbold things lol.

I want to know what's in their files =p  Just trying to see who else may want to know as.  They charge for information, however, there exemptions, which I plan to use.

Old Guy,

   I appreciate your point, and I concur completely. However, I didn't get the feeling that this was a thread that was intended to (directly) bring about any kind of change. Instead, I just think that it it is more of a dialog-creating thread. Furthermore, I feel that in the correct forum, asking "Why?" CAN actually bring out change.

   The reason I chose the questions that I did is because (I feel) it would force them to actively engage in an informed discussion about the subject. For example, instead of getting the BS canned response that Tom_G received from Mr. Abercrombie (paraphrased) "Thank you for writing to me about your issue.  As your Senator, I worked   very hard on your ssue.  Now, since I am running for Governor, I can't   take time to discuss your issue.  Vote for me."; Imagine if the governor (whoever is elected) was forced to state, specifically, in a public forum, why he is against CCW in Hawaii. It would be a very safe bet to say that the vast majority of his points would be based completely in fallacy and fear...both of which can be refuted rather easily simply by using the GunFacts.info e-book. Demonstrating, with facts (again, in a public forum), that the government DOES NOT always know best could be one of the best steps that the pro-2A crowd could use to garner public support.

   Regarding young people not getting involved, I would like to point out that I asked several weeks ago if people out be interested in getting together for a face-to-face meeting, and no one else seemed interested. If you want to get young(er) people involved, having a physical meeting that people can bring their friends to, could bring in more participation than this forum can alone. If we establish a set date/time/place each month to meet, then that information can be included in the sticker packets that some people (myself included) seem to be interested in handing out at the range.

   I personally think that there are quite a few people that are willing to participate, but really don't know how to get started and/or don't even know that we exist. Sure, testimonies are great, but we need a bigger PUBLIC presence, for that we need volunteers.

- Alex

Alex, Sorry if I get carried away. 
 
Us older folks sometimes get the feeling that the newbie shooters really aren't interested in the political aspects of 2A.
 
That their too concerned with themselves and not others.
 
Us Older guys are really not into the new technologies that you younger folks are.  No facebook or twitter or what have you.
I/we don't feel a Need or Want for that stuff.  I and some of my friends have enough problems with a PC.  Really amazing that
I can do what I'm doing now.  When I was working, I'd screw up my office PC so bad that the IT people and the younger guys were
totally amazed at what/how I did what I did.
 
I and the Wife(time permitting) would be happy to attend such meetings etc. 
 
Why not ask HRA/LIFE if  they are willing to host an event after fun shoots or just by itself.
LIFE has a BIG tent, tables and chairs which is used for gun classes.  We have coolers to use.
 
Why not start now, Here by asking Who can come when is a good time.  Where can be Kokohead.
 
 
 

I appreciate everyone's efforts to get more folks involved. But, I have to say that anyone wanting to start a new advocacy group needs to really look at what is involved. It is a tremendous effort to create a new organization, recruit new members, manage the membership databases, organize and record meetings, and find meeting places. And while I would never suggest one not try and create an new advocacy group, I would suggest they look into joining an already established one.
On the lus side, two advocacy groups can communicate to the lawmakers that there are more interested folks (ie likely voters...). On the down side, especially in a relatively small community, it can just divide those interested parties and result in a less cohesive and coordinated effort to influence change......   

I appreciate everyone's efforts to get more folks involved. But, I have to say that anyone wanting to start a new advocacy group needs to really look at what is involved. It is a tremendous effort to create a new organization, recruit new members, manage the membership databases, organize and record meetings, and find meeting places. And while I would never suggest one not try and create an new advocacy group, I would suggest they look into joining an already established one.
On the lus side, two advocacy groups can communicate to the lawmakers that there are more interested folks (ie likely voters...). On the down side, especially in a relatively small community, it can just divide those interested parties and result in a less cohesive and coordinated effort to influence change......

I can attest to it taking a significant time investment!   I would love to find some advocacy groups and have a meet up.  I am actually going to be speaking with some people from South Bay Open Carry on Thursday, as I will be attending one of their Open Carry meet ups while I am visiting CA this week. I will hopefully have a chance to speak to Mr. Gene Hoffman, from the Calguns Foundation, here soon to get some information from him.

I can attest to it taking a significant time investment!   I would love to find some advocacy groups and have a meet up.  I am actually going to be speaking with some people from South Bay Open Carry on Thursday, as I will be attending one of their Open Carry meet ups while I am visiting CA this week. I will hopefully have a chance to speak to Mr. Gene Hoffman, from the Calguns Foundation, as he it marked as attending on facebook.

If you get to talk to Mr. Hoffman, as him how Sykes and Peruta are doing. Both cases are about  "May Issue" of CCWs and may have significant impact here in Hawaii if decided favorably. Ask him if he has any sense about having folks appy for and get denied CCWs as prepatory activities for a legal action.
I have not been able to get a response from Mr. Gura or Gotlieb regarding that question and would be interested to hear what Mr. Hoffman thinks.
Have a fun and safe trip.

Peruta is scheduled for Oral arguments shortly into November, they expect a ruling maybe later this year.  Not sure about sykes, nothing updated that I see so far.  Nordyke III and Heller II oral arguments are tomorrow.

Cal guns has something big up their sleeves..(like really big). not sure what it is yet.


**Update** Cal guns has dropped some lawsuits regarding the releasing of information. (Damn I had that idea a two weeks ago!) Which was kind of what this thread was looking for.

   They are going to hit all the counties it seems and get all sorts of information on the carrying of firearms per locality.

I saw the cases coming up tomorrow. Unfortunately you can only speculate from the oral arguments. I just want to flip to the end of the book already

I really would like to pick Chief Kealoha's brain about his views on CC in Hawaii, since he really is the gatekeeper.  The NRA said he was the most pro-gun candidate, but as it stands I haven't seen much out of him one way or the other. 

I appreciate everyone's efforts to get more folks involved. But, I have   to say that anyone wanting to start a new advocacy group needs to really   look at what is involved. It is a tremendous effort to create a new   organization, recruit new members, manage the membership databases,   organize and record meetings, and find meeting places.

I dunno, I've been a board member for an organization in the past, and I don't recall it being that much work...as long as you have a handful of people willing to put in the effort. Regarding creating a new organization, that's not really where I was going with the whole meeting thing...at least not at first. I just think it would be very good for people from the 2AH forums to get together so we can A) get to know each other better on a face-to-face basis and B) to actually organize some form of public outreach. Forums are great, but let's be honest, in the last year how much can we really claim to have helped out the 2A cause? Obviously, there are several members who are very active, but the rest of us don't really have much idea as to what we can do. I think holding physical meetings could possibly change that.

And while I would never suggest one not try and create an new advocacy group, I would suggest they look into joining an already established one.

Such as...? The HRA? OK, when do THEY meet up and discuss 2A or CCW issues? Or getting the public informed and involved? Their site just shows a Funshoot and Cowboy shoot day, not really what I would consider a call to arms over 2AH issues.

- Alex

Grasshopper, the impetuosness of being Young and energetic.
 
Why not go to the source and talk to:  Harvey Gerwig, HRA President
                                           E Mail:  harveygerwig@hawaii.rr.com      Phone: 306-7194
 
Under his leadership, HRA is doing more now than before.  He's easy to reach and to talk to.
 
Why not go see him?  Who knows, maybe he is looking ro start a CCW section and just needs someone
to step up and do the job.
 
You can also talk to Bill Richter of LIFE.  Another easy to talk to guy.
 
I know both of them.  Bill is a member of this forum.
 
No reason to re-invent the wheel.  The wheel exisits, just needs new grease.  You?
 
If you or anyone else want to meet Harvey, Bill or Myself(and the Wife), come to the Lunch or Dinner to meet/Greet
Sandy Froman, past president of the NRA.  First time a NRA President came to Hawaii.
Having a Q & A after lunch.
 
Lunch and Dinner is Nov 6.  Location: Kaneohe Marine Base Hawaii Officer's Club
 
Call Harvey for reservations.  I know that the 3 of us will be at the dinner.  Wife and I can't make lunch.
 
NOW it the time to meet n greet almost all of the top people of NRA and HRA in Hawaii
 
This is a chance to put 2A Hawaii on the "map"
 
You got questions, may get answers then and there.
 
These are the people who have established Credentials with all the people/organizations (legislators and law enforcement) you have to go
thru to get CCW here in Hawaii.
 
 
 
 

Is there a dinner too?

Yeah I just found out about it yesterday. It's on Nov 7th 45 bucks same area.

I will be out of town for about a week or so and will be caught up in some school work till then.

As for the OP:
I don't think there really are any questions left to ask. I think it's only requests, suggestions, and when necessary, demands, that are left. Is there something we don't know which we'd like to? I think we pretty much know the who, the what, the when, the why. If they have plans for the future are about the only thing I can think of.
 
 
 
Meeting:
Awesome that they are having a dinner now. I was slightly bummed out that I couldn't make it to lunch. I can't make it out to dinner either if it's really $45 though.

Your not paying for just dinner, your also donating to the "cause".

Oh don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with the price in that I think it's absurd and go questioning why it's so high priced. I just simply can't afford it in my situation. My situation = Too soon after gun show. Mismanagement of my personal funds has me borrowing money from gf to pay our rent  .