He has tirelessly been trying to get something started here ...
I think he deserves a lot of credit for his efforts. Thanks Chris!

Hear hear!  Thank you, Chris, for your efforts!  I, the individual, am happy to join you in this effort.  Probably after Thanksgiving, but certainly before year's end!

Hey Guys,

The Wife and I were kinda discussing this thought.

We have a few questions about this action and it's ramifications....

How many people are we talking about here that will submit applications?   Got any Meaningful numbers?

    Got any Women signing up?  They're the ones that Alaska's CCW law thru.

What kind of publicity will this generate?  Good or Bad?

Is HRA/NRA again going to try to get the CCW law changed from "May" to "Shall" Issue?  If so, How many legislators can WE count on for support?

Personally, We feel the biggest change is from "may issue" to Shall Issue will take care of everything.

Is there a Reason, HRA/NRA did Not undertake similar action earlier?

Is this the "right" time considering the "new" legislature will start in January?

WHO will be Against "Shall" issue and Why?  Based on previous testimony, I can see the Hawaii Law Enforcement Coalition, Working With Anti 2A groups.
   What agencies are in the Coalition?  The various PDs, Prosecutor's Office, State AG and most likely some Federal agencies.

Not to mentionAnti 2A legislators and the new Democratic Governor.   Do we know where the "new" legislators stand on 2A issues?

Will the Mayor take sides or stay neutral?

I'm willing to bet that the Anti crowd has their Wish List made up and are already knocking on doors lining up Support for their agenda. 
    Trying to get fence sitting legislators to Their side to push for more "bad" laws.

At this point, I'm curious as to just What laws HRA/NRA are going to Try and get changed or rescinded.

Just some thoughts out loud.

It seems that HawaiiCCW is seeking change via the lawsuit route rather than the legislative route. Honestly, with the way things move here in Hawaii combined with the new slew of antis that the citizens of Hawaii have elected to represent them, this seems like the best choice.

Regarding the number of applicants, I have absolutely no idea. I would love to think that we could easily get 100+ over the next month or two if everyone on the forum gets involved and starts passing stuff out to everyone they know at KHSC, the gun shops, other private ranges, as well as friends and family members.

I have already sent Chris the information packet that I intend to print out tomorrow and take around town this weekend, so once he approves it, we'll figure out a way to make it available to everyone electronically in case anyone else is interested in doing the same.

Oh, and I have at least 2 women that I know will be applying if I have my way. Add in your wife and some of her friends and we might start to get a tread going!

- Alex

It seems that HawaiiCCW is seeking change via the lawsuit route rather than the legislative route. Honestly, with the way things move here in Hawaii combined with the new slew of antis that the citizens of Hawaii have elected to represent them, this seems like the best choice.

+1

To play the Devil's Advocate......

Is there a Pro 2A attorney lined up?

Going to court Costs $$.  Who is or has the DEEP Pocket to pay for all of this?

Do you know Who is on the "other" side in court?

What are the impications on the Natioanl level if we loose in court? 

What kind of political fallout will there be?  Locally and nationally?

How about "timing"?  Is this the "right time" to start something that may get lost in the Christmas sales?  Buried in the back pages?

Once the new legislative session begins, lots of things will be happening in the Capitol, do we have resources to cover all the legislative bases?

What other groups will benefit from having a CCW permit?  Abused women who have TROs that don't work? 
How about Gays who are attacked for being who they are?  Minority groups?

The more diverse "our" side is, may generate More people/groups to join.

Just some more thoughts on the subject.

Plan ahead, expect the unexpected, have a back door just in case.

Is there a Pro 2A attorney lined up? Yes

Going to court Costs $$.  Who is or has the DEEP Pocket to pay for all of this? The state has deep pockets, and they will end up paying for this .  Like every other case that happened we wll obviously require some support from the community.

Do you know Who is on the "other" side in court?  Take a look at other 2a suits, to see probably defendants.

What are the impications on the Natioanl level if we loose in court?  I can't comment here.

What kind of political fallout will there be?  Locally and nationally? They will hate us, they will hate our attorneys, they will hate me, people will cry, people will scream, we will be picketed, we will be on the news, the japanese tourism companies are going to shit the bed over this.

How about "timing"?  Is this the "right time" to start something that may get lost in the Christmas sales?  Buried in the back pages?  Cases go for a while, there's no specific time imo.

Once the new legislative session begins, lots of things will be happening in the Capitol, do we have resources to cover all the legislative bases? Hawaii didn't have the best turn out for pro-gun.  We will improve over the previous years in terms of testimony (I believe), knowledge and action. But to be honest, don't look to the legislature to solve our problems (just my opinion).  They might not create more problems, but I don't see them solving any.

What other groups will benefit from having a CCW permit?  Abused women who have TROs that don't work? 
How about Gays who are attacked for being who they are?  Minority groups?  I
Everyone benefits, if they wanted to carrry a weapon concealed regardless of any minority standing =). However, If you know any of these people, please have them contact me personally.

Regarding the money issue, I would like to think that the SAF would pick up our case, just like they have been doing in California and elsewhere around the country. I really think that since we aren't part of the mainland, people forget about us. Even some of the big-time West Coast 2a advocates forget that while CCW is technically available to us, permits are not being issued out. In my opinion, this is one of the biggest things holding us back; we NEED to get the word out, and doing a mass CCW permit application is one of many ways to do this (I have several other ideas to discuss at the meeting as well).

As far as fallout is concerned, I think that if we do our part to educate other pro-2a groups around the country about our current situation, I think that on a national level, we will get more support than we are expecting. Locally, as Chris said...they're gonna hate us. Oh well.

And from the resources standpoint, I think getting people involved by getting them to first submit a CCW permit (which will subsequently get denied) is a great way to get more people involved in the legislative side as well.

But all of this is simply my opinion, and I've been wrong many times before. 

- Alex

Nice too see the ball start to roll.  If I can remember the application for the Big Island there is a question on "why do you need to carry?".    If someone lucks out and actually gets through you'll have to take a "shooting test" at the PD range.  Oahu's one is harder then B.I.'s ( bullseye style target with numbers in each ring, need to score set number to pass), Big Island test has human silloute, need to place shots in "kill zones" to pass, no head shots. 

When construction took a dump I jumped on the first job I could find which was working for an ATM company.   The firearm training they give is a joke, they went over the basic safety/gun models and that was about it.  I think that that they did not want to be liable if an employee had to protect themselves so they basically said "even though your armed just throw down the money and run away".  There was no scenario training (they did hint to us that if we did have to shoot that we were on our own, no legal help from the company)   The permit I had was for open carry only, I should have made a copy of the permit badge before I quit.

Big island should be following Hawaii Revised Statutes, unless I am mistaken; there is no requirement for a shooting test.  I have seen the open carry permit, stopped an ATM guy the other day and he was very happy to show it to me.

Hmm, maybe it was a company thing but if you failed the shooting qualification you didn't get the permit.   We had to go to Hilo and shoot at the indoor range with the departments range guy.

Hmm, maybe it was a company thing but if you failed the shooting qualification you didn't get the permit.   We had to go to Hilo and shoot at the indoor range with the departments range guy.

Could have been. The companies are required to provide that you have been trained in the usage of the firearm to the police (From what I understand). If the police told someone that.... heh... would love to know.

The first 50 CCW application packets are done...leaving now to go apply for my permit and to pass out these packets to some of the local gun shops.




The forms are available to anyone who wants them at the following links:

CCW Packet Intro: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Zr7bVfxpdq2IsBp6VomqM2z6TzLbQ9gUFGNDRhvwaZw/edit?hl=en&authkey=CJrmrroK#
CCW Application Instructions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v2Qc1CrK6iC-wUOk5fe6leE1VAa8dlShnaTdhduSnsk/edit?hl=en&authkey=CPj2oIYD#
CCW Application (Blank): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z5DXlx5mM-1B6CNdFJgTK7nKRGPSxXJfEGncrp2RiP0/edit?hl=en

If anyone has any questions, comments, or anything they would like me to add, just let me know.

- Alex

ETA: I've updated the Application Instructions to reflect the additional required photographs and information for the firearm that one intends to carry concealed (I guess we don't get to swap out weapons ). I also tried to change the permissions on the Google Docs, so hopefully everyone can get to them now.

ETA Again: 2aHawaii, thanks for reposting my picture....I can't seem to get it to work. 

Thank you Alex!

Hey Alex,
I think you have to change the permissions on your docs. I get an error when trying to view them.

Update, I'm getting passport photos taken now...didn't know that they were required.

And I figured the docs might be a problem, I tried to upload them from work and kept getting error messages. I'll fix them tonight.

-Alex

Update, I'm getting passport photos taken now...didn't know that they were required.

And I figured the docs might be a problem, I tried to upload them from work and kept getting error messages. I'll fix them tonight.

-Alex

Crap! I totally forgot about that passport photo since it wasn't in the statute. I want to know what they want them for, because it's not on the permits (that I saw).  The open carry permit I looked at didn't have a photo on it.  I should go and ask them for it back.

I finished the application process. Some of the highlights:

1) One of the officers didn't exactly try to dissuade me from applying, but he did tell me that it's at "the Chief's discretion" and "no one has been approved in 15 years." (Thanks to the FOIA, we know this isn't exactly true, but I wasn't going to argue with them about the 3 that have been approved). ---Chris I will email you will all of the information, including the officer's name.
2) He also told me that I should elaborate beyond "Self Defense" for my reason to carry. I simply told him, "No thank you. The Supreme Court has found that Self Defense is the only reason that I need." He looked at me kinda funny and just said OK.
3) I didn't know that I needed the passport photos, so I drove about a mile away and had them taken; it only took me about 10 minutes.
4) Regarding the photos, there is a place on the bottom of the CCW permit for them to attach the photos to. I did ask them why they wanted the pictures since they knew it was going to get denied. They simply said, "Because you're applying." I wasn't going to argue with them that it's not anywhere in the statute.
5) For the most part, they were helpful and I can't say that I blame them for their "hesitance."
6) While I was waiting, I handed out about 10 of the information packets, so hopefully that will help gain some interest. 

After I left, I headed over to Security Equipment Corp and gave them some information packets. I was planning on getting around to a few other shops, but it was already 3pm and I didn't want to get stuck in traffic. If anyone else has the time, I would appreciate it if they would pass out more of the packets at the gun shops. I will also drop some off at Koko Head this Sunday when I go.

- Alex

For those of you who think that this whole thing is a big waste of time and have not seen this yet:

http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/news/157-sykes-sacramento-settle

I know that the current application process is a huge time-sink, but we CAN make a difference here in Hawaii!

- Alex

The more people that apply, the more people the state has to justify why they denied these people.... but let these others get it ;o.

The more people that apply, the more people the state has to justify why they denied these people.... but let these others get it ;o.

I hope you guys are bringing this packet to the meeting tomorrow. I have several friends ( I will apply next week) that will probably go apply with me with some good old fashion friendly poking...Hell, I will even drive them and buy them lunch.  Pig is prepped and ready to cook. Got a table and some chairs...looking forward to whomever is coming. This is a no frills event. Call for directions.

If you are not coming because you are short on time, don't have anything to bring, or nervous...don't be. We are some of the friendliest gun enthusiasts you will ever meet!

Stop by and meet some fellow members and show your face.

Together We Stand, Divided We fall.

Call for directions.

Chuck

398-0087