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HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition (Read 21399 times)

GZire

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2013, 10:49:22 AM »
Quote from: ren on June 04, 2013, 07:18:18 PM
the media tries to paint this guy like an angel, but he was found with drugs and stole a car. I think there is more to this story. The sympathy card is the new race card in this age.


If he is Stephen J Dinnan, then he's got an amazing amount of traffic infractions.  The guy got really smart somehow and is able to get out of a ton of citations for no insurance, no drivers license, safety, etc.  39 cases on eKokua and that's not counting what might he might have been cited for before the online access.
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ren

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2013, 11:05:30 AM »
Overall, the situation is very unfortunate but the media didn't give much to both sides of the story just trumping up sympathy for the suspect.
http://www.khon2.com/2013/06/04/kaneohe-man-taken-off-life-support-after-scuffle-with-honolulu-police/
The comments reflect the kind of reactions the media solicits and probably the reason why our courts in Hawaii are very sympathetic to convicted felons.
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Deeds Not Words

kong

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2013, 11:15:44 AM »
Quote from: ren on June 05, 2013, 11:05:30 AM
Overall, the situation is very unfortunate but the media didn't give much to both sides of the story just trumping up sympathy for the suspect.
http://www.khon2.com/2013/06/04/kaneohe-man-taken-off-life-support-after-scuffle-with-honolulu-police/
The comments reflect the kind of reactions the media solicits and probably the reason why our courts in Hawaii are very sympathetic to convicted felons.

Ren I wouldn't specifically say it is our courts being sympathetic but a jury of our peers.  Either way the officer/officers will be investigated with the totality of circumstances of what a reasonable officer would have done at the time with their experiences, education, and or training and hopefully will either be cleared or tried.
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Fabtek94

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2013, 11:43:30 AM »
Quote from: xer 21 on June 04, 2013, 07:43:12 PM
true, but it doesnt mean that the officers were acting in good judgement either.


we dont really know either side of the story at this point.

another point.  isnt this why they have tasers and stuff?

Not all officers are equipped, or more importantly certified to use Tasers.

Personally, I would rely on my sidearm than a Taser if I had to defend my life. Even if the suspect is fleeing, they could always pull a weapon out to slow you down.

Its too bad it ended with the his passing :'(
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armsinc

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2013, 01:16:33 PM »
While it is sad that this man lost his life, and we dont know the whole story. I would speculate running from police having a illegal drugs in your pocket are both negative indicators. There is definitely more to the story but I'm going to air on the side of the police.
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ArmsInc Hawaii

Colt808

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2013, 02:56:56 PM »
Quote from: ren on June 05, 2013, 11:05:30 AM
Overall, the situation is very unfortunate but the media didn't give much to both sides of the story just trumping up sympathy for the suspect.
http://www.khon2.com/2013/06/04/kaneohe-man-taken-off-life-support-after-scuffle-with-honolulu-police/
The comments reflect the kind of reactions the media solicits and probably the reason why our courts in Hawaii are very sympathetic to convicted felons.

http://www.khon2.com/2013/06/05/medical-examiner-no-assaultive-type-injuries-on-man-involved-in-police-scuffle/
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Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it. ~Thomas Paine


And I still see stupid people.

zhuzhits

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2013, 03:26:11 PM »
Quote from: lasersgoPewPew77 on June 04, 2013, 07:56:00 PM
Meh, thieves get no sympathy from me.
+1
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Colt808

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2013, 03:37:46 PM »
Quote from: xer 21 on June 05, 2013, 09:03:00 AM
and yet people are still picking sides here.

hell, both parties could be wrong.

It's about acceptable behavior and bad choices, not right/wrong or picking sides.

Quote from: f8ldzz on June 05, 2013, 09:10:43 AM
No one respects law enforcement anymore, PERIOD.
If an officer tells you to stop - you stop.
If an officer tells you to stop - and you RUN - get ready to get chased down, beat down, handcuffed and ignored even if you're lying in your own pool of blood.
You don't respect the officer and his authority, the officer is going to ignore you, PERIOD.
This isn't even about guilty or not guilty.
"Kids" nowdays...parents no teach their kids about respecting the law.
This is why get too much stupid sh*t.

Just the other day, officer gets "bumped" - guy gets thrown in jail.
This is just no respect.
Is it too much to respect the officer and the law?
Why you gotta dis the cop?
Now who looks stupid and in more trouble?
If this idiot just respected the officer and the law, this would be a non-issue and NOT in the news.
I agree that today there is a lack of respect for police (and authority in general), but not so much with the expected "beat down" and being "ignored". People who flee and resist should be subdued and apprehended. But once cuffed and in custody, the majority of officers take their responsibilty for a suspects well being pretty seriously.
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Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it. ~Thomas Paine


And I still see stupid people.

HiCarry

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2013, 05:42:57 PM »
Again, we should wait to see what the facts are, not what the media or police spin it to be. Unfortunately there are more than enough instances of bad behavior by alleged "bad guys" and police.

There are many, many cases where innocent people ran from police. Believe it or not, there are some folks out there who have witnessed police abuse and may indeed have a real perceived fear of police mistreating them. And while running isn't ever a good idea, it also shouldn't be a death sentence either.

There are also lots of stories of police planting drugs on innocent people. Don't you recall the story of the police raiding the wrong home and ending up shooting the elderly woman who thought criminals were breaking into her home? They planted drugs in her home to make her look bad and bolster their story that the shooting was justified. Heck, just go onto You Tube and you can find tons of these stories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston_shooting





The bottom line is that we just don't know. There are good cops and bad cops, just like there are good "citizens" and crooks....And guessing, and taking sides based on pure speculation is always problematic....
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TactiGUCCI

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2013, 06:14:11 PM »
interesting points of view gentlemen. i agree with some " this state is guilty until proven guilty" i can see that ive felt that before, but i also have seen the guilty proven innocent when guilty as hell... this time ill side with the popos after all he was fleeing a stolen vehicle and im thinking he mightve resisted a bit if he was willing to run.
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ren

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2013, 06:49:20 PM »
wow, that was quick. Off life support then off to an attorney
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/22516290/excessive-force
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Deeds Not Words

Funtimes

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2013, 08:17:44 AM »
Quote from: Colt808 on June 05, 2013, 03:52:05 AM
Who said anything about the guy being guilty? Every day, across the country, law enforcement have tens of thousands of encounters with people.  How many run and why? Again....innocent people (those who've done nothing wrong) don't run/resist.
That has to be one of the most ignorant statements I've seen in awhile.  Guilty until proven guilty, seriously? If that were the case, people would go straight to prison to serve a sentence until they can prove their innocence at trial. But the last time I checked, people still get their day in court and the state still bears the burden of proof.

But that's how feel...Just a guess, but does it have something to do with a "fight the power" and "f*ck the po-po" mentality that you're known for? Because HPD is rather professional compared to other departments. There are no LAPD style beat downs or NYPD broomstick games. Try living in a place where the people aren't "down with brown" and maybe your opinion would be different.

Um, I'm not sure if you see how the courts work here, but many times it is guilty until proven guilty lol. People are also proven guilty until innocent in the media (George Zimmerman, Christopher Deedy cases come to mind). 

I just had an individual wrongly jailed, whom I was trying to bail out.  He filed an appeal on a misdemeanor charge, but they still incarcerated him.  He was locked up for about seven days out of a 10 day sentence that he likely shouldn't have had to serve anyways.  Do I think they "think you are innocent" no.  Do I think they have some rules to follow or they have to pay a lot of money out, yes.
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230RN

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Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2013, 08:35:42 AM »
"The state is guilty until proven guilty."

I read that as a mere mis-typing of "The state is innocent until proven guilty," which is what I think about it.

For all we know, this 26-year veteran of the force brought him down with proper procedures for a resistant suspected felon and the suspect cracked his head on the curb or something. 

And yes, even innocent people flee for whatever reasons... they're on probation and have high motivation not to get involved... they have 1.0001 oz of pot on them which has nothing to do with the reason for the stop... they're just plain scared....etc, etc.  But the Officer can't know that in advance.

I'm not exactly "for" the police  --abuses occur --but I'd like to wait until the investigation phase is complete before I swallow the press's version of it. 

Until then, until we can poke holes in the investigation itself, "The state is also innocent until proven guilty."


Terry, 230RN




« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 08:46:42 AM by 230RN »
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I do believe that the radical and crazy notion that the Founders meant what they said, is gradually soaking through the judicial system.

sliver

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2013, 08:45:16 AM »
I don't understand why people in Hawaii think they can run from the law.  Even if you get away from a cop, your still stuck in the middle of nowhere and can't get off one of the biggest prisons in the world!  You are surrounded by 2500miles of water in every direction; you gotta be the biggest moron in the world to run from the cops here!
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 04:06:39 AM by sliver »
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zippz

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2013, 08:50:31 AM »
I also think the public and media are too quick to blame the police alot of times.  There may be some bad cops out there, but just guessing, I'd say 95-99% of them are truly good.  It's just that the bad ones get more than their share of attention.
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irishd

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2013, 10:23:13 AM »
  No sympathy here for that guy. He didn't come into contact with the police that day because he was just being a good, upstanding citizen. He came into contact with the police because he was a meth using thief who stole a car. This guy brought this incident to a whole new level the moment he ran from and then decided to fight with the police. If you have never been in position where you had to engage a criminal and take them down, you really don't know what level you are going to be at until you are under way and in the scuffle......add to this crystal methamphetamine and it intensifies it even more so.

  I feel sorry for the family and their loss, but it was the bad acts of this individual that caused all of this. I also feel sorry for the city's pockets, because more than likely they will roll over and settle the upcoming civil suit that results. My opinion on this is simply.....If you are committing a bad act, then neither you or your family should benefit from those bad acts.......period!   :thumbsup:
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dirsh

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2013, 10:35:56 AM »
nm
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Bunker

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2013, 12:14:36 PM »
Here is the Advertiser piece today. "There were no assault injuries on a man whose family is claiming Honolulu police used excessive force in detaining him, the medical examiner’s office said Wednesday."

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/hawaiinews/20130606_Detained_man_taken_off_life_support.html?id=210373741
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GZire

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2013, 12:35:22 PM »
Quote from: sliver on June 06, 2013, 08:45:16 AM
I don't understand why people in Hawaii think they can run from the law.  Even if you get away from a cop, your still stuck in the middle of nowhere and can't get off one of the biggest prisons in the world!  You are surrounded by 2500miles of water in every direction; you gotta be the biggest moron in the word to run from the cops here!


My man.............we have a lot of morons in Hawaii.
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macsak

Re: HPD use of force in question after scuffle leaves man in critical condition
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2013, 12:41:24 PM »
bad link
yesterday's article said that the medical examiner saw no "assaultive-type" injuries
i was not aware that assaultive was a word

Quote from: Bunker on June 06, 2013, 12:14:36 PM
Here is the Advertiser piece today. "There were no assault injuries on a man whose family is claiming Honolulu police used excessive force in detaining him, the medical examiner’s office said Wednesday."

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/hawaiinews/20130606_Detained_man_taken_off_life_support.html?id=210373741
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