Hey all -

Been reading up on Hawaii's gun laws, but still have unanswered questions.  I understand any responses given is not legal counsel and should be double checked with a lawyer adept in Hawaii's firearm laws. 

That said...

1- Is CCW on your own property OK?  In California, as long as you are on your property (inside the house) and your front/back yard is closed off from the public, you are legal to carry concealed without a permit.

2- The castle doctrine thing is a little confusing and I'm getting conflicting information.  Can someone clarify that Hawaii, does in fact, have a castle doctrine law in effect?

3- What are the rules on high capacity mags?  It seems that pistol mags are not allowed to exceed 10 rounds, however there's no regulations for rifle mags.  Is this correct?

4- Does Hawaii still have the "assault weapons" ban in effect?  Here in California we get around it by requiring a tool to detach a magazine and affixing a magazine less than 10 rounds capacity.  Or we run a featureless set-up



5- I understand the process of buying a firearm in Hawaii (hunter safety course, apply for permit with fingerprinting, buy firearm and register at police department within 5 days).  My question is, theoretically, could I start this process the first day I get there?  Or do I need to become a resident for "x" amount of days before starting the process?

6- When registering firearms, can I register it to my girlfriend and myself?  We will be living at the same address. 

7- If firearms are sent to the mainland for gunsmithing/repair/et al can the FFL that receives my firearm send it back directly to me? Or must I go through the registration process again?

8- What are the rules on folding stocks?  In California you're allowed to have folding stocks on non-assault weapons, as long as the overall length with the stock closed is 30".  The rest of the nation seems to say 30" OAL with stock open.

9- What are the rules on ammo?  Is mail order OK?  I seem to remember reading somewhere that ammo must be registered so mail order is a no-go?   

It's a lot of questions, and I thank you for taking the time to answer them!

Jason

1.  I (think) you're fine ccw on your property. 

2. yes

3. 10 rnd pistol or any magazine that can fit a pistol.  ie AR, AK, Mini 14 mags.   Hawaii considers anything with a barrel less than 16" a pistol.  no grandfathering of standard cap mags.  you still see standard cap AR mags at the range

4.no, other than the 10 round deal and no sbr or awb's.  no mag release tools or funky grips.

5.dont know

6.dont know

7.pretty sure you can get them sent to yourself.

8. folding stock ok.

Best I can do for you......

Thank you!  Hopefully others will chime in with answers to the questions you didn't know.

Another question I had was about ammo.  I seem to recall reading somewhere that it must be registered so you cannot mail-order from the mainland?  Is this right?

My comments in bold:

10 rnd pistol or any magazine that can fit a pistol.  ie AR, AK, Mini 14 mags.   Hawaii considers anything with a barrel less than 16" a pistol.  no grandfathering of standard cap mags.  you still see standard cap AR mags at the range What's Hawaii's definition of "standard capacity" (round count wise)?

no, other than the 10 round deal and no sbr or awb's.  no mag release tools or funky grips. No sbr or awb's?  What's that?

-Jason

Negative. You may purchase as many ammo as you want online. If you can find somewhere willing to go through the headache for it. And if you don't mind paying the $35 or so "hazard fee".  There's no laws I'm aware of that prevent you from buying online and there is no registering ammo. Vote with my feet if that ever happens here.

No time in residency requirement I'm aware of. Hopefully some of the military guys can answer this. I highly doubt there's a waiting period though. As long as you have an address.

I find it incredibly hard to believe the dumb shit that comes from that assault ban thing in california. I mean...seriously? Magazine lock...? 2 of 3 either muzzle break, pistol grip, or detachable magazine...? A hunting rifle that looks like military rifle. Both functions exactly the same way. But one has to have it's functions dramatically altered because of its looks? LOL.

I know I know preaching to the choir. That state pisses me off.

Hehehe those magic buttons came in response to cali not being able to let go of the AW ban.

I would buy the largest TSA approved container and field strip the shit out the guns your gonna bring. I would also put cable locks on the receivers and not arrange the parts in any order. Plenty of TSA, airline staff, and who knows else will be inspecting your arms. I know from experience that it will be xray and opened before it is sent to baggage.

Also, from my experience, this piece of luggage does not come out on the carousel with the other bags. It is brought out a TSA or other staff, and placed off to the side on the floor. You should notice a person staging this luggage as there will be others like you.

Good luck!!

Thank you!  Hopefully others will chime in with answers to the questions you didn't know.

Another question I had was about ammo.  I seem to recall reading somewhere that it must be registered so you cannot mail-order from the mainland?  Is this right?

My comments in bold:

Quote from: 2asupport on December 11, 2010, 08:57:53 AM

10 rnd pistol or any magazine that can fit a pistol.  ie AR, AK, Mini 14 mags.   Hawaii considers anything with a barrel less than 16" a pistol.  no grandfathering of standard cap mags.  you still see standard cap AR mags at the range What's Hawaii's definition of "standard capacity" (round count wise)?

no, other than the 10 round deal and no sbr or awb's.  no mag release tools or funky grips. No sbr or awb's?  What's that?

-Jason

standard capacity to me would mean 30rnd AK mags,  20-30 rnd AR mags, 15rnd glock 19 mags.  none of these guns were released in their standard configurations with 10 rnd mags.  so, Hawaii does not allow any mag that exceeds 10 rnds that is capable of fitting in a firearm with a barrel of less than 16".

awb?  I meant aow, any other weapon (short barrel shotgun)    sbr? short barrel rifle,  any rifle with a barrel less than 16".  These tools are available  with proper licenses and or tax stamps from the Feds if you're in a firearm friendly state.

Quote from: Jason762 on December 11, 2010, 03:39:42 PM

Thank you!  Hopefully others will chime in with answers to the questions you didn't know.

Another question I had was about ammo.  I seem to recall reading somewhere that it must be registered so you cannot mail-order from the mainland?  Is this right?

My comments in bold:

Quote from: 2asupport on December 11, 2010, 08:57:53 AM

10 rnd pistol or any magazine that can fit a pistol.  ie AR, AK, Mini 14 mags.   Hawaii considers anything with a barrel less than 16" a pistol.  no grandfathering of standard cap mags.  you still see standard cap AR mags at the range What's Hawaii's definition of "standard capacity" (round count wise)?

no, other than the 10 round deal and no sbr or awb's.  no mag release tools or funky grips. No sbr or awb's?  What's that?

-Jason

standard capacity to me would mean 30rnd AK mags,  20-30 rnd AR mags, 15rnd glock 19 mags.  none of these guns were released in their standard configurations with 10 rnd mags.  so, Hawaii does not allow any mag that exceeds 10 rnds that is capable of fitting in a firearm with a barrel of less than 16".

awb?  I meant aow, any other weapon (short barrel shotgun)    sbr? short barrel rifle,  any rifle with a barrel less than 16".  These tools are available  with proper licenses and or tax stamps from the Feds if you're in a firearm friendly state.

I was confused as well several years ago when I was getting into firearms. I thought I was stuck with bolt-action only

Anyway, the magazine capacity law (as I was told by the police station) is for pistols/handguns only. There is another aspect of Hawaii firearm law in that we are not allowed to have anything deemed an "Assault Pistol". I actually brought my HK91 plus 5 twenty round magazines and 4 twenty-five round magazines in the case for registration. The clerk just chuckled and asked if I needed more magazines.

This means no Draco AK's, no Kitty Kat AR's, no MP5K''s no Mini-UZI, no Skorpions, etc. Basically any rifle with a barrel shorter than 16" is considered illegal in Hawaii but this also includes the "pistolized" versions of assault rifles. Believe it or not but the Desert Eagle is considered an "Assault Pistol" IF you put on a barrel 7" or longer. A standard Desert Eagle with a stock barrel is considered perfectly legal. Weird isn't it...

I don't have the paper with me at the moment but there are 5 or more characteristics of "Assault Pistols" used by the police stations if something is considered one. If a brought in firearm meets 2 or more of the requirements it would be considered illegal and confiscated.

No AOW's either.

Alright...

So if I bring an Saiga, converted to use high capacity mags Ak47 magazines, that's a no go despite the fact it's not a pistol or a defined "assault weapon"?  Even in California, this is OK. 

I believe that's perfectly legal. E-Tac/GoGuns, a company that converts Saigas is located here in Hawaii.

From what I understand, the 30 rnd ak mag is illegal.  whether or not all leo know this or turns a blind eye to them?  no one really knows.

Vladimir,

Just to confirm... A gun store converts Saigas to accept standard AK47 mags. 

So even though AK mags could be used in an illegal "assault pistol", it's good to go because it's for use in a rifle?

Vladimir,

Just to confirm... A gun store converts Saigas to accept standard AK47 mags. 

So even though AK mags could be used in an illegal "assault pistol", it's good to go because it's for use in a rifle?

totally up to you to take the chance.   

Do I or anyone else at the local range care about the 30ak mags?  no.

The theory is because "Assault Pistols" are banned in Hawaii, a 30 round AR/AK mag being impossible to be used on a "assault pistol" in Hawaii, it's default and only use is going to be in rifles, so the 10-round language doesn't apply to AR/AK. All standard capacity AR/AK mags are therefore commonly used in Hawaii.

But the law clearly states, that any magazines that "could" be used in a handgun or a "assault pistol", will have a strict 10-round limit. What's not clear is that "assault pistols" are banned in the first place, and some "assault pistols" share the same magazine as the main rifle counterpart.

I think this has been left alone for so long because it could mean bad juju for either side of the issue. It could lead to more unconstitutional infringements, or the liberation of our rights. Depending on how good the talking-heads are on either sides.

There have been other threads in this forum about the magazine limits. I would review those for additional info.

There was a recent decision by an assistant AG that stated AK/AR magazines with a capacity greater than 10 are illegal in Hawaii. As Dregs noted, it is more that LE does not, at this time, seem to be enforcing the letter of the law. But, as was demonstrated recently with the Rugar Charger being confiscated at HPD, they can choose to enforce it at anytime.

And, FYI - I do know of several instances where individuals were "stopped" at the range by off-duty HPD officers who asked about the capacity of what appeared to be standard capacity rifle magazines. Luckily, the mags were pinned to 10 rounds, but had they not been, who knows what could have happened. Especially since at the time the HPD officer inquired, the mag was in the rifle: technically a Class C felony.......

1. You can carry concealed on your property. There is nothing in Hawaii law that specifies that your property be fenced, not visible to the public, etc to restrict that right. That being said, if you carry your gun in your front yard and someone sees it, there is probably a very good chance HPD will visit you. How will the encounter go? Don't know, but it certainly has a good chance of going sideways.....

2. Castle Doctrine - Hawaii has always had an exception to the "flee if safe" mandate in your home. The recent changes we were able ot get last year has to do with exemptions from civil liability if you are forced ot use deadly force in certain circumstances. Specifically, you have to believe that someone is about to commit a violent felony and if in defending yourself based on that belief, you cannot be held liabile in civil suits brought forth by either the perp or his surviving family.  It is my opinion that we need to change that even more so that it removes the need of the homeowner/occupant to determine the intent of the bad guy. Why should you, as the homeowner/occupant need to wait until the intent is obvious before you engage the bad guy? Especially if doing so puts you at a tactical disadvantage. IMHO, it shoud be presumed that anyone in your house uninvited or thru violence of action to get in, is PRESUMED to be there to do you or your harm.

3. See other responses

4. No AWB in Hawaii

5. Yes for long arms; No for handguns - But, you would need to have a local residence for both, so as long as you had that , you could technically start the permit for the longgun. The permit to aquire a handgun requires the affidavit, or hunter's ed, so you'd need to have this in hand before starting the process.

6. No. Hawaii law provides for joint registration, but only to married couples.

7. If sent to the mainland for repairs/improvements, it can be sent back directly to you. No re-registration required.

8. Folding stocks OK. Nothing in the HRS about minimum length with the stock folded.

9. No legal restrictions on ordering ammo via mail. Be aware that in the relevant HRS statues, "firearm" and "ammunition" are frequently mentioned together, meaning that in many cases the same restrictions related to firearms may be applied to ammo as well. 

Vladimir,

Just to confirm... A gun store converts Saigas to accept standard AK47 mags. 

So even though AK mags could be used in an illegal "assault pistol", it's good to go because it's for use in a rifle?

Even though the AK magazine fits into it's assault pistol form, the Draco, it doesn't mean it's illegal in a rifle. If you are that concerned about it, leave the magazine at home but I never ran into problems with my police department.

The issue with assault pistols is that they are illegal and the police departments for the most part know they can't be brought into the state legally. Whenever I bring in a firearm I recently purchased, my FFL does the paperwork which notifies my police department what make, model etc. I'm sure it can happen that some guy buys an assault pistol from an seller who isn't aware of the laws, brings it in with help from a bad FFL dealer and it is never registered...but I don't think the risk of a major offense is worth the trouble of owning a firearm I would be hesitant to show anyone.

Even though the AK magazine fits into it's assault pistol form, the Draco, it doesn't mean it's illegal in a rifle. If you are that concerned about it, leave the magazine at home but I never ran into problems with my police department.

Actually, it does. The laws says that a magazine that is "capable" of being used in a pistol (defined as any gun with a barrel less than 16 inches)  is limited to 10 rounds. So, if the magazine fits into both a pistol and a magazine, it is limited to 10 rounds. It does not matter that said pistol is an "assault pistol" under Hawaii law, nor that the particular pistol is otherwise illegal in Hawaii.

Have the police been enforcing the law? Not much, but as I said earlier, I have known a few individuals who would have been in trouble if the 30 round magazines they had a Kokohead had not been pinned to limit capacity to 10.

The issue with assault pistols is that they are illegal and the police departments for the most part know they can't be brought into the state legally. Whenever I bring in a firearm I recently purchased, my FFL does the paperwork which notifies my police department what make, model etc. I'm sure it can happen that some guy buys an assault pistol from an seller who isn't aware of the laws, brings it in with help from a bad FFL dealer and it is never registered

Again, I have to disagree....there was a recent issue with a person buying a Ruger Charger at a local store (not shipped in by an FFL), applying for the permit to aquire, which of course required all the pertinent data on the gun, waiting the 14 days, returning to the police to pick up the PTA, taking said PTA to the store and picking up the gun, and then, when he returned to the police department for the final registration step, had the gun confiscated as an "assault pistol."

The Desert Eagle Mark XIX  with the 10 barrel (length - 14 inches overall, weight 4.4 lbs) as well as many of the Thompson Center Contenders are considered an "assault pistol" under the current inclusion criteria of HRS 134.1 but I have seen both of these for sale at retail stores in Hawaii, so it is not how "knowledgeable" the police are, it is a matter of selective enforcement. It is the same basic problem with butterfly knifes. They are readily available from many different vendors, including the swap meet. But, despite being openly for sale, the police do not enforce the law and confiscate them from the retailer. So, Joe Public, seeing the vendors selling the butterfly knives in the open, sometimes under the noses of HPD officers, assumes they are legal. It is only when Joe Public runs into a police officer for some other problem (stopped because he's suspected of a crime) and has the knife on him, or when some over zealous police officer decides to flex his authority, does the law suddenly get enforced.

"Assault pistol" means a semiautomatic pistol which accepts a detachable magazine and which has two or more of the following characteristics:

     (1)  An ammunition magazine which attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

     (2)  A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward hand grip, or silencer;

     (3)  A shroud which is attached to or partially or completely encircles the barrel and which permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the second hand without being burned;

     (4)  A manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded;

     (5)  A centerfire pistol with an overall length of twelve inches or more; or

     (6)  It is a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm;

. Luckily, the mags were pinned to 10 rounds, but had they not been, who knows what could have happened. Especially since at the time the HPD officer inquired, the mag was in the rifle: technically a Class C felony.......

Hicarry.

I dont have the literature in front of me, but I thought it was a felony only if inserted into a pistol.

EDIT:    The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of use with a pistol is prohibited.

    This subsection shall not apply to magazines originally designed to accept more than ten rounds of ammunition which have been modified to accept no more than ten rounds and which are not capable of being readily restored to a capacity of more than ten rounds.

    Any person violating this subsection shall be guilty of a misdemeanor except when a detachable magazine prohibited under this section is possessed while inserted into a pistol in which case the person shall be guilty of a class C felony.

 

Quote from: HiCarry on December 13, 2010, 12:10:48 PM

. Luckily, the mags were pinned to 10 rounds, but had they not been, who knows what could have happened. Especially since at the time the HPD officer inquired, the mag was in the rifle: technically a Class C felony.......

Hicarry.

I dont have the literature in front of me, but I thought it was a felony only if inserted into a pistol.

EDIT:    The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of use with a pistol is prohibited.

    This subsection shall not apply to magazines originally designed to accept more than ten rounds of ammunition which have been modified to accept no more than ten rounds and which are not capable of being readily restored to a capacity of more than ten rounds.

    Any person violating this subsection shall be guilty of a misdemeanor except when a detachable magazine prohibited under this section is possessed while inserted into a pistol in which case the person shall be guilty of a class C felony.

 

You are correct...my mistake. Class C felony if the magazine is inserted into a pistol....misdemenor otherwise. Good catch, thanks.

Again, I have to disagree....there was a recent issue with a person buying a Ruger Charger at a local store (not shipped in by an FFL), applying for the permit to aquire, which of course required all the pertinent data on the gun, waiting the 14 days, returning to the police to pick up the PTA, taking said PTA to the store and picking up the gun, and then, when he returned to the police department for the final registration step, had the gun confiscated as an "assault pistol."

The Desert Eagle Mark XIX  with the 10 barrel (length - 14 inches overall, weight 4.4 lbs) as well as many of the Thompson Center Contenders are considered an "assault pistol" under the current inclusion criteria of HRS 134.1 but I have seen both of these for sale at retail stores in Hawaii, so it is not how "knowledgeable" the police are, it is a matter of selective enforcement. It is the same basic problem with butterfly knifes. They are readily available from many different vendors, including the swap meet. But, despite being openly for sale, the police do not enforce the law and confiscate them from the retailer. So, Joe Public, seeing the vendors selling the butterfly knives in the open, sometimes under the noses of HPD officers, assumes they are legal. It is only when Joe Public runs into a police officer for some other problem (stopped because he's suspected of a crime) and has the knife on him, or when some over zealous police officer decides to flex his authority, does the law suddenly get enforced.

I agree and this law is the main burden of confusion regarding Hawaii firearms. Many sellers on the mainland often disclose that they will not sell certain items to Hawaii to it being "illegal" even though it isn't.

The example regarding the Ruger Charger seems like it has some legal ramifications. Like you mentioned, some local shops sell "assault pistols" and don't seem to be held liable when thing go downhill at the police station for the unknowing buyer. All the buyer is concerned with for the most part is "This reputable shop is selling them so it must be legal." But the whole argument is a somewhat defeated considering the buyer didn't do his/her research. The Ruger Charger is listed as an example on HPD's website as an assault pistol.