Interesting. Sounds like even more of a pain in the ass than the class really. These laws blow. Thanks for the help guys. And sorry for the necro-post.

The problem is most military commander's will not sign the memo, most likely due to liability if something goes wrong.  Also they may not have time to get the notary and not familiar with the state laws to brief you.

Deleted troll post

When I first got back last year, I attempted to get the mandatory safety course waived due to the fact that I was an MP, which means I had been using and practicing with the M9 pistol for the 4 years, as well as the fact that I had completed the Combat pistol course, which essentially allowed me to instruct soldiers on use of the M9, as well act as NCOIC during pistol quals.

I presented all my certs and paperwork, to include my qual records, and HPD said that regardless of the fact that I had been training people basic firearm safety and the use of a pistol, I had to take a Hawaii safety course to learn firearm safety and pistol operation. 

Anyone know why this kind of @$$hat policy is in place?  Makes no sense to me.

P.S. They also informed me that my military waiver from my former commander/unit was invalid, because I was no longer in the military.

They are idiots. As an NRA handgun the instructor I can qualify a person to apply for a handgun permit (after completing the course successfully) but if I show them my NRA certification card, they say it's no good. Go figure!

I guess they follow the letter of the law.

I've been teaching pistol classes for a few years myself.  I went in to do my pistol permit a couple years ago and they said my affidavit, from my LIFE course I took 15 years ago, was no good.  It did not state how many hours of classtime/live fire I performed.  I said I teach the class now. No good.

yeah you would consider it a troll post, considering you're part of the group that participates in violating peoples rights.

Seriously?  I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.  But I'm giving you a very short rope as your post so far has nothing to do with this topic.

Would you care to explain what you mean?

I guess they follow the letter of the law.

I've been teaching pistol classes for a few years myself.  I went in to do my pistol permit a couple years ago and they said my affidavit, from my LIFE course I took 15 years ago, was no good.  It did not state how many hours of classtime/live fire I performed.  I said I teach the class now. No good.

We've helped several people who have affidavits that don't specify the "4 hours of classroom training and 2 hours of live fire".  Not sure when the switch happened, but there are a lot of folks out there who have older affidavits that get unpleasantly surprised when they get to HPD.

I have a notorized memo from my commander listing all my hours as a drill sergeant and first sergeant and have never had an issue at the window.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

They still need to meet the credential requirements (Shooting tests annually etc.) so I'm not sure how that would go together.  I think it's something the military has to look at now and will likely be required to provide some sort of support for.  It's all new, so there are certainly going to be some growing pains.  We will see though!  Hell, when I left they were still trying to figure out where to put badges and stuff on the new uniform lol.

Hey Chris, hope you're doing well.

Nah, they'll behave just like Hawaii and simply not promulgate any rules or provide any qualification requirements for a long time....then they'll make the qualification requirements more difficult than when they were active duty...

Which is the problem I initially had with the current interpretation.....

I understand that this may be necessary to understand state regulations, but if the purpose of this course is to ensure the individual understands gun safety..

While the laws seem to infer that "safety" is the reason for the restrictions, I take a slightly more jaded view. If safety were truly a concern, the requirement for a safety class that was 4 hours long and included a discussion on relevant Hawaii laws and 2 hours of live fire training would not equal the Hunter's Education class where you don't handle a firearm, yet alone discharge one.

The underlying reason is simply to make it more difficult to purchase a handgun.

While the laws seem to infer that "safety" is the reason for the restrictions, I take a slightly more jaded view. If safety were truly a concern, the requirement for a safety class that was 4 hours long and included a discussion on relevant Hawaii laws and 2 hours of live fire training would not equal the Hunter's Education class where you don't handle a firearm, yet alone discharge one.

The underlying reason is simply to make it more difficult to purchase a handgun.

BIng Bing Bing, Give this man a prize........

TBH i have no problem with requiring a safety class, Having taken both a pistol course and the Hunters education class, The Hunters Education firearms part is a joke, The only reason i can see they even include it is so the state can say they provide a "Free" way for people to get qualified to own a handgun and as such the training requirements dont violate peoples rights.

We've helped several people who have affidavits that don't specify the "4 hours of classroom training and 2 hours of live fire".  Not sure when the switch happened, but there are a lot of folks out there who have older affidavits that get unpleasantly surprised when they get to HPD.

I went to HPD this morning to apply for a rifle permit. It was a smooth process, especially with the downloadable and fillable forms on their website. Completed them beforehand except the actual application form, which they provide due to the two carbon copies under the original top sheet.

I asked if I needed to provide my safety course document but they mentioned it wasn't needed. However, an officer asked to see it anyway and I was sort of wondering why since he did say it wasn't needed for rifle permits.

He mentioned my form says I completed just 3 hours of classroom instruction and 3 hours of firing training at a firing range. Currently, safety course affidavits need to state 4 hours of classroom instruction. The officer advised that, if I want to apply for a handgun in the future, I need to get it amended to say 4 hours of classroom instruction or take the full course. I asked when this was changed he mentioned it occurred in the 1990s. However, it cannot be true because I used this affidavit to purchase a handgun in 2012.

Looks like I need to get an amended form or retake the entire class  . Despite this, kudos to the officer for informing me as it allows me to prepare for a possible future handgun purchase.

BIng Bing Bing, Give this man a prize........

TBH i have no problem with requiring a safety class, Having taken both a pistol course and the Hunters education class, The Hunters Education firearms part is a joke, The only reason i can see they even include it is so the state can say they provide a "Free" way for people to get qualified to own a handgun and as such the training requirements dont violate peoples rights.

Having spent many hours on the range, I've seen folks with varying levels of training.  The Hunter Education Course should be used for the sole purpose of obtaining a hunting license.  There is no "hands on" training with regard to firearms.  The entire section that relates to firearms combined with the law section (regarding firearms) can be covered in 2 hours tops.  Having seen at least half of the people in the recent course I've attended raising their hand when asked if they were there to get a permit to acquire a handgun, I find this to be a bit concerning.  Many have had no previous experience with firearms of any kind.  With this being a "minimum" training, and having minimal impact on safety, why not revisit HRS 134 and remove the training requirement and make ALL firearms permit applications the same (as in make long gun and handgun permit applications the same process).  This would clear up some of the confusion as well as congestion at HPD. 

Revamp the law and hold citizens capable of following the law  Require training only when a violation occurs (like with a DUI).  There are ample sources of training available for those who need it. 

I went to HPD this morning to apply for a rifle permit. It was a smooth process, especially with the downloadable and fillable forms on their website. Completed them beforehand except the actual application form, which they provide due to the two carbon copies under the original top sheet.

I asked if I needed to provide my safety course document but they mentioned it wasn't needed. However, an officer asked to see it anyway and I was sort of wondering why since he did say it wasn't needed for rifle permits.

He mentioned my form says I completed just 3 hours of classroom instruction and 3 hours of firing training at a firing range. Currently, safety course affidavits need to state 4 hours of classroom instruction. The officer advised that, if I want to apply for a handgun in the future, I need to get it amended to say 4 hours of classroom instruction or take the full course. I asked when this was changed he mentioned it occurred in the 1990s. However, it cannot be true because I used this affidavit to purchase a handgun in 2012.

Looks like I need to get an amended form or retake the entire class  . Despite this, kudos to the officer for informing me as it allows me to prepare for a possible future handgun purchase.

If you already own a pistol or more then one, next time you want to buy one i would go down their with the current affidavit and apply for the permit, If they deny you i would give Richard Holcomb (from Holcomb law) a call @ (808) 545-4040 (you might want to do it  before hand). If you already own a handgun requiring a new training certificate (when you have already used this one to gain a firearm in the past) for a second one would not make you any more dangerous as such the requirement would have no merit on safety and instead only stands to deny you your constitutional rights, 

The Hunters Education firearms part is a joke, The only reason i can see they even include it is so the state can say they provide a "Free" way for people to get qualified to own a handgun and as such the training requirements dont violate peoples rights.

Gave me a great idea.  NRA pistol instructors can create a special cheaper class for the hunter's ed/military group to cover just the live fire portion that is missed.  It would be an optional supplemental class to teach gun handling and range procedures.

I went to HPD this morning to apply for a rifle permit. It was a smooth process, especially with the downloadable and fillable forms on their website. Completed them beforehand except the actual application form, which they provide due to the two carbon copies under the original top sheet.

I asked if I needed to provide my safety course document but they mentioned it wasn't needed. However, an officer asked to see it anyway and I was sort of wondering why since he did say it wasn't needed for rifle permits.

He mentioned my form says I completed just 3 hours of classroom instruction and 3 hours of firing training at a firing range. Currently, safety course affidavits need to state 4 hours of classroom instruction. The officer advised that, if I want to apply for a handgun in the future, I need to get it amended to say 4 hours of classroom instruction or take the full course. I asked when this was changed he mentioned it occurred in the 1990s. However, it cannot be true because I used this affidavit to purchase a handgun in 2012.

Looks like I need to get an amended form or retake the entire class  . Despite this, kudos to the officer for informing me as it allows me to prepare for a possible future handgun purchase.

You can't really "amend" the form as it attests to the level of training you received. In other words, if you took a class that was administered under the old "3 hours of classroom instruction and 3 hours of range time" you can't just change the document to say it was 4 hours of class and 2 of range time.

The change to the requirements was mid 90's and at the time of the change HRA got an opinion letter from a Deputy AG who said older affidavits would still be accepted under the new rules. HPD did accept old affidavits for a number of years, but a few years ago someone decided to be difficult and HPD started refusing the old affidavits. More of HPD doing what they do...make things difficult...

Gave me a great idea.  NRA pistol instructors can create a special cheaper class for the hunter's ed/military group to cover just the live fire portion that is missed.  It would be an optional supplemental class to teach gun handling and range procedures.

There are some instructor groups that already offer "hands on" training at discounted rates for those who desire the training.  Problem is that so many people think that they can adequately train their spouse, boyfriend, girlfriend, etc. with the minimal training that they've had.  This is not only unsafe, but often results in passing "bad" or "unsafe" habits on to the "new" shooters. 

I'm all for making handgun permitting the same as for long guns.  Reality is that a long gun can do a lot more damage than a handgun, yet there are far more restrictions on handguns.  Oh, and does anyone happen to know how many criminals who commit violent felonies with a firearm (long gun or handgun) have a permit for said firearm?  Heck, I'd go a step further and ask how man of them have had a formal training course on the use off the firearm. 

Reality is that the current law is not working as intended.  The "bad guys" are still getting firearms and using them to commit crimes.  We as a firearms community need to educate the general public on how firearms laws are working and do what we can to illicit change in the law so that everyday law abiding citizens aren't "unintentionally" violating the law.

You can't really "amend" the form as it attests to the level of training you received. In other words, if you took a class that was administered under the old "3 hours of classroom instruction and 3 hours of range time" you can't just change the document to say it was 4 hours of class and 2 of range time.

The change to the requirements was mid 90's and at the time of the change HRA got an opinion letter from a Deputy AG who said older affidavits would still be accepted under the new rules. HPD did accept old affidavits for a number of years, but a few years ago someone decided to be difficult and HPD started refusing the old affidavits. More of HPD doing what they do...make things difficult...

Hi HiCarry. I appreciate the explanation and background information on the enforcement of the four-hour rule. Looks like it's time to get re-safety course certified even with 30 plus years of shooting experience. Thanks.

We've helped several people who have affidavits that don't specify the "4 hours of classroom training and 2 hours of live fire".  Not sure when the switch happened, but there are a lot of folks out there who have older affidavits that get unpleasantly surprised when they get to HPD.

Just out of curiosity, how did you "help"  them? Maybe others can do something similar....

Gave me a great idea.  NRA pistol instructors can create a special cheaper class for the hunter's ed/military group to cover just the live fire portion that is missed.  It would be an optional supplemental class to teach gun handling and range procedures.

Not to throw a wet blanket on an otherwise good idea, but I'm not sure that would be accepted either. The hunter's ed class does not go into detail about Hawaii's gun laws, except as they pertain to hunting regulations and game species identification. Furthermore, there is no provision under the statutory language that lets you add onto someone else's class.

So, technically, you could offer (to supplement an old 3/3 affidavit) a class that provided 1 hour of classroom instruction. On completion you would offer an affidavit that said you provided 1 hour of classroom training. The student would go to HPD with his "old" affidavit and his new one and present to officer the documents to satisfy the current 4/2 requirements. Do you really think that HPD is going to accept that? I doubt it.....

Same for the Hunter's Ed class....but then again, it's not really necessary as the Hunter's Ed class qualifies you to buy a handgun....