apparently his bat slippers could only fit a handgun.
maybe if he put on some pants he would have a place to put it. 


like i said, i'm not an expert.  and I'm sure you know more than me about personal defense and CCW.
but maybe if people also carry less than lethal option along with their CCW, they would have another option before going to the lethal one.
you could hit them with the tazer or pepper spray at a distance, then if necessary go to the gun.
but if the distance is already closed or is already escalated then you would have to go to the final option.

FYI taser is illegal in Hawaii.  Pepper spray be aware there are different types.  More aerosol the type the more chance you can have it blow back in your face given certain conditions.

i won't argue for less than lethal anymore
since it doesn't matter in this case
but i still believe in less than lethal for other options. 

apparently his bat slippers could only fit a handgun.
maybe if he put on some pants he would have a place to put it. 


like i said, i'm not an expert.  and I'm sure you know more than me about personal defense and CCW.
but maybe if people also carry less than lethal option along with their CCW, they would have another option before going to the lethal one.
you could hit them with the tazer or pepper spray at a distance, then if necessary go to the gun.
but if the distance is already closed or is already escalated then you would have to go to the final option.

It's really hard to train on the use of that stuff, not to mention carrying it without looking suspicious. That would be really hard to do here. I mean deedy's clothes are not all that far off from what most of wear on a daily basis.   The point for many people, is CCW is discrete.

I don't know about y'all, but it seems to me that a big problem is what it actually looks like.  Two guys who had been drinking got into a fight, one apparently was legally carrying a firearm, got knocked on his behind, and decided to use his firearm to to even the odds.  Seems to be exactly what all the antis said would happen if the "may issue" CCW in Hi is changed to reflect what many of us want..  The fact that it was a LEO doesn't exactly help the matter.  If he was cream of the crop, what's going to happen if  "regular" people are allowed to carry?
Yes, I realize that as an LEO he may have had a duty to act, but the State Dept. must have guidelines regarding carrying a firearm while out drinking.

I agree with this

i won't argue for less than lethal anymore
since it doesn't matter in this case
but i still believe in less than lethal for other options.

One other thing to think about, is how hard it is to train with less lethal....

Think about that for a bit!

One other thing to think about, is how hard it is to train with less lethal....

Think about that for a bit!

that is true. 

in Hawaii we dont have CCW for non LEO.
thats why i brought up the subject of less than lethal.

That is why I got my ccw in Washington: to protect myself from liberal hippies

Damn. Did you get ccw to protect against butterflys n dandelions too?
Lol jj. I'm gonna try to stop now I promise

So deedys buddy testified today right?

KITV: Retired police sergeant testifies in Deedy trial (Sgt Shreiner)

" Nobody runs back at someone after they've been shot at, it's not human
nature."
you served in the French army?

Given the situation in the Deedy case with the close distance? I believe MOST, regardless of training or background, probably would fight for their life or at least try to. And that is not about being a hero, but basic survival instinct.


 

I honestly think people who want and support having real CCW in Hawaii should be careful not to hitch their wagons to this one.

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Looks like HPD bungled the investigation pretty good...never secured the crime scene, let witnesses leave without questioning, and never performed a field sobriety test or blood alcohol test. Three points...Deedy was authorized to carry a concealed firearm IAW U.S. Department of State Deadly Force and Firearms Policy and H.R. 218. However, he cannot carry a concealed firearm while under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance.

Authorization to carry a concealed firearm:
1) U.S. Department of State Deadly Force and Firearms Policy (relevant section):
         A. A DSS special agent stationed in the United States, who is not otherwise in any way legally disqualified from carrying a firearm, is authorized to carry approved firearms on and off duty.

2) H.R. 218 allows “qualified” LEOs to carry a concealed firearm in any jurisdiction in the United States, regardless of state or local laws, with certain exceptions. Codified at 18 U.S.C. Sections 926B.

The question becomes can he carry and consume alcohol off duty? The answer is yes. An off duty LEO can moderately consume alcohol while conceal carrying, meaning not under the influence, unless agency policy prohibits it, which is not the case with Deedy.
 
H.R. 218 has been challenged in court multiple times and it has been upheld in every case. Imagine if a LEO wanted to enjoy a glass of wine with his dinner at a restaurant but he wasn’t authorized to moderately consume alcohol while he conceal carried? Then imagine to comply with policy, he left his firearm at home and then a felony was committed right in front of him at the restaurant and he couldn't intervene.

That is why moderate consumption is authorized in most departments/agencies. When you read some of the cases, it’s obvious why the majority of agencies and police departments allow moderate consumption while off duty and carrying. Key word is moderate. “The moderate use of alcohol is generally accepted in our society and is legal in most jurisdictions. The moderate social usage of alcohol is generally known to have little significant relationship to a person’s ability to perform effectively and it has no apparent effect upon the Service’s ability to effectively conduct its responsibilities.”

However, 18 USC § 926B clearly states a “qualified” law enforcement officer cannot be under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance.

18 USC § 926B - Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers
      (c) As used in this section, the term “qualified law enforcement officer” means an employee of a governmental agency who—
             (5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
             (6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

Under the influence at a minimal is legally impaired, which must be measured by a blood alcohol test. That is why without a blood alcohol test, who is to definitively conclude Deedy was in fact legally under the influence. That is why I believe they will not be able to prove Deedy was legal under the influence, therefore the case will hinge on whether the use of deadly forced was justified as a private citizen claiming self-defense, since he was not acting in a law enforcement capacity at the time of the incident.

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Another for instance related to off duty LEO being able to moderately consume alcohol. Imagine if an off duty LEO was not able to carry and he wanted a beer with some buddies at the local sports bar and a convicted felon that he personally sent to prison for 15 years was recently released, seen him at the bar, and wanted to take revenge by beating him to a pulp or whatever. Without his firearm, it's all over.

This is exactly the argument for CCWs.
A federal agent murdered a citizen of this state in cold blood.
This was a preventable tragedy. Had a person been carrying he could have killed Deedy before he murdered Elderts.
I do hope that this Fed is convicted to the full extent of the law to send a message to D.C. that government tyranny will not be tolerated.
Ruby Ridge was not that long ago friends.This case is a reminder of that.

Here's what I don't understand....

If Deedy is "LEO", then we should look at his actions to the standards that we would expect of a LEO.  If he has LEO powers on duty and off duty 24 hours, he should be fit for duty 24 hours too. That's what you would expect of a LEO right?  Someone going bar hopping and drunk (was he?) should not be acting LEO that night.

Where was his LEO ID?  What is involved in identifying yourself as a LEO?  If some tourist in shorts and shirt came up to me and said he was arresting me, I wouldn't believe him unless he looked the part and showed some ID.  Wouldn't you have to show your badge?

What was the SOP for reviewing a LEO use of deadly force?  Did he undergo the same process?  If he was acting as a LEO that night, he should have gone through such a process. If not, he was not a LEO that night unless someone didn't do their job right.

Of course, this is all up to the court and jury.

Bringing up an old subject, but I thought it would be interesting as I saw this little tidbit in today's news:

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/22877086/honolulu-police-union-defends-pay-differential

...............being expected to carry a firearm 24 hours a day...................
 
.............officers must confront danger even when they're off-duty................

Deedy's friend, Adam Gutowski testified that Elderts "said something along the lines of, 'You have a gun?' or 'You're not the only one with a gun,' or something along those lines. I heard something about a gun". That kinda plants a seed with the jury that possibly Elderts told Deedy he had a gun.

More on the alcohol stuff…Gutowski testified that Deedy had ordered about five beers over several hours from China Town clubs before going to McDonalds. That doesn't prove that Deedy was drunk...he could have not finished or not even drank all of them, or ordered for someone else, and it was also over a period of several hours. Deedy has already admitted he drank alcohol earlier in the evening but said he was not intoxicated at the time of the incident. HPD should have pursued a warrant to get a blood alcohol test but they didn’t, so in the absence of a blood alcohol test, I believe the alcohol angle will be irrelevant in this case.

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/22903261/day-9-deedys-friend-testifies-about-bar-hopping-on-night-elderts-was-shot

Day 11 testimonies by McDonalds cashier and by medical examiner.