Deedy Trial - Injustice? (Read 320419 times)

Kingkeoni

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #420 on: August 05, 2013, 10:53:41 PM »
Good to see
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

Bunker

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #421 on: August 06, 2013, 05:21:01 AM »
Interesting, Christopher Deedy is expected to take the stand.
interesting indeed

aieahound

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #422 on: August 06, 2013, 09:25:56 AM »
I was thinking he would and hope he does to walk us through the video.

"This is where I showed my ID/Credentials"
" This is where I got into a defensive position/arm extended and told him I'm LEO / to back up / whatever command was given"
" This is where I felt in danger, pulled my weapon and he went after it"
Etc......

The more we see it the video pretty much shows all these things, but only he and Elderts know what was said and what the exact sequence of events was.

That Nurse seemed to be very credible witness re: his appearing sober.

Jl808

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #423 on: August 06, 2013, 10:55:16 AM »
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #424 on: August 06, 2013, 11:00:50 AM »
I'm curious.  Nobody reported they smelled alcohol on Deedy until after the altercation was over.

Could Eldert's blood, which was all over Deedy, have accounted for the smell of alcohol?  Maybe stomach contents were expelled? 

I'm simply wondering if the alcohol could have transferred to Deedy from Elderts and given off the smell some reported noticing?
"... the right to be let alone -- the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men."
--Justice Louis D. Brandeis

Jl808

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #425 on: August 06, 2013, 11:02:44 AM »
audio sucks... i can hardly hear anything even with my speakers at full.  Need to plug in an external speaker.

At 11:10am, the defense attorney is interviewing Deedy about his training.
At 11:21am, Deedy is talking about his training on detecting pre-assault indicators, maintaining a tactical advantage, different levels of / escalating use of force.
At 11:27am, Deedy is being asked about "engaging in fights" and his simulated training on this at FLETC Georgia.
At 11:30am, Deedy is talking about his training at the State Department's Diplomatic Security Training Center in 2009.
At 11:49am, Deedy is talking about the different places he served and his protective detail function.
At 12:00pm, looks like they went on lunch break.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 12:00:25 PM by Jl808 »
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

Jl808

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #426 on: August 06, 2013, 01:15:58 PM »
They are reconvening now at 1:15pm.

Deedy is talking about his APEC assignment, about his flight over and about fighting jet lag by staying hydrated.
At 1:30pm, Deedy is talking about taking a converted limo / taxi with 2 other agents, checking in the hotel, and about getting in contact with Adam Gutawski.
At 1:36pm, Deedy talked about being surprised seeing a shooting range in Waikiki, and was asked by Agent Ben if he was carrying his gun.  Ben told him that Waikiki was dangerous at night.
At 1:40pm, Deedy talked about attending an all-hands DSA meeting and texting with Adam about going to First Friday.  The meeting was about an hour sometime about 8pm.  After showering and changing, he left to meet Adam.
At 1:42pm, defense attorney asked Deedy to elaborate whether he was on-duty or off-duty.  He said he was on-call.  He was going to meet Adam at a pub under the Monarch hotel.  He left his Sig in the hotel safe and brought his Glock with him at around 8:30.

The KITV feed is crapping out on me at this point so I am missing a bunch of his testimony.

At 1:46pm, Deedy talked about meeting with Adam at the pub.  He recalls drinking less than half of the drink Adam had for him.   He also met Jessica West who was Adam's girlfriend.  This was about 9pm.  They were gonna leave for dinner.  They took a stop at a convenience store picking up some water before getting dropped off in Chinatown.  They ate at Maria Bonitas on Hotel street where Adam bought dinner (burrito).  No alcohol was consumed. 

They went next door to watch karaoke where Deedy ordered Adam, Jessica and him a round of drinks.  He had a beer for himself.
Deedy described rowdy behavior by 2 karaoke singers and left.  He said he didn't stay long and only drank 1/2 of his beer because they didn't like the karaoke place. Stayed there for 10 minutes.
They went to Bar 35 but it was too crowded.  They went to Bamboo 2, and was able to get a table there.  He went to the restroom because he wasn't feeling too well.  Adam had ordered a round of drinks for the table.  Beer for him and Adam.  He said he didn't touch it and drank only club soda because he wasn't feeling too good.  They decided to leave because the bar was too crowded.  They said they left about 11:30pm.  Took a taxi back to Waikiki.

Went to Mr. McGills' on Lewers St and stayed in McGills for about an hour.  They all drank alcohol.  He drank a beer.  Adam was catching up with Deedy.  Jess was talking with the DJ.  They were talking about eating chicken McNuggets.  This was a little after midnight.  They walked to another bar (Coconut Willies) and Deedy opened up another tab for everyone a little after 1pm.   Deedy ordered a Bud Light for himself then they went to the dance floor. 

At 1:58pm, Deedy got introduced to some of Adam or Jessica's friends on the dance floor.  After finishing the Bud Light, he ordered another round for the group.  In total, he drank about 2 beers at Willies.  He said he changed his beer because he saw a different beer he liked.  Jessica asked if she could order a few more drinks for her friends (chardonnay, white wine, etc).  He doesn't recall who drank those.

Jessica got Deedy a NewCastle beer but he gave the beer away because he already had 1 beer in his hand.  He said he had roughly (more or less) 4 beers that night between 8:45pm to 2:15am.  He says he keeps track of how much he drinks because he makes it a habit of drinking responsibly.   He said he keeps himself to a maximum of 4 beers especially if he may have to drive or carry a firearm.

At 2:04pm, Deedy talked about wanting to see Jessica and Adam's friends at Nashville.  Deedy wanted to get food so he would walk with them to Nashville.  During the walk, Jessica and Deedy were talking about marriage and noticed that Adam was no longer in front of them.  They had just passed McDonalds and Jessica said that Adam must have gone to McDonalds.

At 2:06pm, defense showed the video.  Deedy goes over the front steps video. 

Video timestamp starts at 2:23:10
2:24:15 1st camera angle (front steps). Deedy and Jessica in the video walking into McDonalds.  Jessica says she doesn't want to go to McDonalds.
2:24:21 2nd camera angle (cashier) . Deedy and Jessica enters McDonalds.  Adam wearing a black shirt and white cap ordering at the counter.  They joked about Adam getting his nuggets.
2:26:24 3rd camera angle (kuhio).  Deedy and Jessica sitting in the booth.  Adam on the left and has his arms raised.  Deedy doesn't notice what was going on.
2:27:12 2nd camera angle.  Deedy and Jessica still in the booth at the left side of the screen.  Adam by the cashier.  Several people at the counter ordering stuff.
2:30:41 3rd camera angle.  Deedy and Jessica still sitting at booth.  Adam walking towards the booth.  He doesn't recall if Adam is carrying his food and assumes that Adam is waiting for his food.

At 2:22pm, the court takes a recess. 

« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 02:23:02 PM by Jl808 »
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

Q

.
« Reply #427 on: August 06, 2013, 02:47:51 PM »
.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 02:49:43 AM by Q »

Jl808

Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #428 on: August 06, 2013, 02:57:17 PM »
At 2:44pm, Deedy's testimony resumes.

Video timestamp resumes:
2:34:04 angle 2 (cashier): Deedy says he is pointing at something at the counter
2:34:30 angle 2: Deedy says thank you to the cashier and goes back to the table.
2:36:17 angle 2: Deedy points out that Shane Maderos and Collin Elderts walk in to the cashier.
2:38:30 angle 3 (kuhio): Deedy still sitting with Jessica
2:38:39 angle 3: Deedy had a clear and unobstructed view of the cashier.  There was nothing blocking his line of sight to the cashier.

At 2:49pm, Deedy points on the floor plan which booth he was sitting in.   He is approximately about 15 feet from the counter.

Video timestamp resumes:
2:38:49 angle 2: 3rd person (Perrine in black shirt, jeans, backpack) at the counter.  Deedy did not notice that person.
2:39:12 angle 3: Deedy mentioned noticing a commotion at the counter.  Perinne turning to Elderts and saying something like "hey, just leave me alone."  Deedy explains that it makes him wonder what is going on.
He said he noticed they were loud and continued to be loud.  Elderts laughing hysterically, slapping of the counter, etc.  When he heard Perrine saying "hey, just leave me alone", it made him wonder what was going on.
2:39:27 angle 3: Deedy stood up and turned to watch what was going on.  Deedy further explained what he saw and heard. 
2:40:02 angle 3: He wasn't really sure what was going on.  He heard Perrine say "hey just stop".  Deedy said that Elderts started waving at the security guard and laughing at her.  "Shows a complete lack of disrespect or disregard for authority."
2:40:10 angle 2: Elderts seated at table.  Deedy observing Elderts and Perrine.  Perrine said "hey just stop" to Elderts.  Perrine and Elderts were looking at each other while seated.  Deedy said he noticed Elderts said to Perrine like "what's your problem?  want beef?"  Deedy said he knows what that means and started walking over to Elderts.
2:40:16 angle 2: Deedy approaches Elderts.  He walked up to Elderts and Elderts turned towards Deedy.  Elderts said "What?" (2:40:17)
2:40:18 angle 3: Deedy says "what's going on?"  Deedy's hands were still in his sides.  Deedy explained that he heard hostile and threatening language.  Elderts said to Perrine: "What the F is your problem?  you want beef?"
2:40:24 angle 3: Deedy's not sure if Elderts responded to Deedy's statement "what's going on?".  Deedy heard Medeiros talking to Perrine and he turned to look at them.
2:40:24 angle 2: Heard Medeiros saying to Perrine "Why the f are you still staring at us?  Do you have a problem?"  Heard more threatening language and he asked Perrine: "Are you okay?"  Perrine did not respond and was staring into space.  Medeiros turned to Deedy: "No its not okay.  This guy is staring us down.  We have a problem with that."
2:40:27 angle 2: Deedy facing Medeiros and stepped away from Elderts to talk to Medeiros. 

At 3:15pm, Deedy explains his training that when one intervenes during an assault, it is already too late.  At that point, there was no assault yet. 

Video timestamp:
2:40:27 angle 2: Security guard Rosalina Soriano addressing Deedy and Medeiros.  And said "hey we don't need any trouble here."  Deedy did not respond to her.  Deedy said to Medeiros: "Yeah she's right.  There isn't any trouble here."
2:40:39 angle 2: Alexander Byrd at center of screen (black vest, white T-shirt, jeans, baseball cap).  He said "Hey just let it go, there's no need for a problem here."  addressed to the group.  Byrd continued talking to Medeiros.
2:40:45 angle 2: Deedy heard Elderts say something to Deedy.  Deedy turned around from Medeiros and Byrd and was now in front of Elderts table.  "Hey fking haole, you like beef too?" 

At 3:19 pm, Deedy explained that he heard the word beef and haole.  He heard of "haole" before from a Hawaiian co-worker 2 weeks before.  His co-worker (Will Nakaiaole) mentioned something angry like "fking haole".  Deedy asked, "what?"  Wil said, "Don't worry about it.  When somebody says "fking haole" to you, it's not a good thing."

Video timestamp:
2:40:45 angle 3: When Deedy heard Elderts, Deedy turned and said to Elderts "Nobody here wants to fight."  Elderts said: "We'll fuck you up".  Deedy said that the situation has escalated. 
2:40:51 angle 3: Deedy explained that at that point, he needed to present force.  He had not yet identified himself as a LEO.  Deedy was pulling out his wallet from his back pocket.
2:40:53 angle 3: Jessica walked up the center isle and approached behind Deedy to the left.  Deedy said he had his credentials on his hand.

Deedy showed Exhibit 7: State Department issued badges.   Deedy explained that while he was pulling out his wallet, he said "I'm a cop. If you assault me or anyone else here, you will be arrested." 

After IDing himself to Elderts with the badge, Elderts said "You won't arrest me.  You got a gun?  You gonna shoot me?"  Deedy said it was not what he expected or hoped for.

Video timestamp:
2:41:00: Jessica West was behind Deedy.  Medeiros was to Deedy's left. 
Deedy said that Elderts said "You won't arrest me.  You got a gun? You gonna fking shoot me?"
Deedy explained that with his training, someone responding in a hostile way after IDing themselves, it is a hostile situation.  He's not really sure why Elderts responded that way. He said that he tried to step back and create some space. 

When asked by the defense attorney, Deedy testified that he never said "I'm gonna shoot you."  Deedy also said he never said "You're gonna get shot in the face."

Deedy said that Elderts continued saying something similar to:  "You gonna shoot me?  Go ahead, shoot me!"
Deedy said he was still trying to figure out what Elderts is trying to do, intent, etc.  Elderts was still seated and his hands were still visible.

Jessica said something like "let's just go."  Deedy pulled Jessica to the side because she was between him and Elderts.

2:41:06: When Elderts gets up, Deedy said that the situation changed.  Deedy said he was still processing what was going on because Elderts response was unexpected.  He thought that he has IDd himself, this is escalating, there has to be other officers here.  Security guard touches Deedy's arm and said "I'm calling the police."  He wasn't looking at her and wasn't sure if she was directly speaking to Deedy or not.  He thought "great, police are coming."

2:41:19 angle 2: Byrd steps in and stops Elderts from progressing.  He said Elderts was in an aggressive position, right hand on waist.  Prosecution objects.  Elderts points to Deedy and says "go ahead and shoot."  He said he saw Elderts touch his waistband (pre-assault indicator). When Bryd stepped in, Deedy leaned to the side because he could not see Elderts hand anymore. 

At 3:44pm, prosecution asks Deedy why he didn't exit the door at that time.  Deedy believes he has the authority to intervene if he sees a violent act about to be committed.  He believed that to simply run was irresponsible.  He said that as a LEO, it would be very irresponsible for him to walk away at this point for something he has taken responsibility for.  Police would get there in 2-3 minutes.  He didn't leave through the door.   He still has not made a full assessment of what is going on. 

Deedy explains about "pre-assault" indicators that when someone uses more and more of these, it is likely that the assault is more likely to happen.  If you do something after the assault has already happened, it is too late.

At 3:47pm, the court takes a 10 minute break.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 08:54:14 PM by Jl808 »
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

HiCarry

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #429 on: August 06, 2013, 03:02:12 PM »
I was thinking he would and hope he does to walk us through the video.

"This is where I showed my ID/Credentials"
" This is where I got into a defensive position/arm extended and told him I'm LEO / to back up / whatever command was given"
" This is where I felt in danger, pulled my weapon and he went after it"
Etc......

The more we see it the video pretty much shows all these things, but only he and Elderts know what was said and what the exact sequence of events was.

That Nurse seemed to be very credible witness re: his appearing sober.

She triaged both Deedy and his friend....very capable and no BS nurse....she actually called me the day after the event to talk about it. Says Deedy was the epitome of a gentleman, despite the circumstances. Just saying....

Jl808

Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #430 on: August 06, 2013, 04:35:54 PM »
At 4:00pm, testimony resumes.

Video timestamp:
2:41:27 angle 2 (cashier): Deedy explains that if someone has a weapon, they will check it.  When Elderts touched his waistband the 2nd time, Deedy's reaction was to reach for his gun.
2:41:19: Elderts touched his waist.  A tap. Then Elderts changed his posture and came at Deedy.  Elderts moving towards Deedy.
2:41:24: Elderts right next to Byrd.  When Deedy reached for his gun, Elderts stopped in his tracks.  Jessica was in front of Deedy.  He was trying to process Elderts response to his badging. 
2:41:26: Elderts a few feet from Deedy. 
2:41:26: Deedy stepped offline to change his positioning so Elderts cannot come at him. 
2:41:27: Deedy explains Elderts' position.  Elderts hands on his side with nothing in them.  He reassessed and believed there was no deadly force situation.  Deedy does not remember what Elderts was saying except that he was saying the same thing.  "Go ahead, shoot me, shoot me."  Medeiros standing.  Medeiros was not the focus of Deedy at this point.  Deedy's focus was entirely on Elderts because he was a threat.  Elderts was about 6 feet away.

At 4:14pm, Deedy explains the 21ft principle.  It's possible for someone with a knife to close the gap within 21 feet before someone is able to pull the firearm.

Video timestamp:
2:41:xx: Elderts started saying something else after Deedy reached for his gun. "Oh so you got a gun?  If you're gonna shoot me, you got to shoot me first."
Deedy now re-assessing the situation again.  Deedy explains that Elderts was testing the officer now that he knew he was an officer and has a gun. 
Deedy explains predatory behavior.  It was a calm before the storm.  Elderts had a "thousand yard stare".  Immediate situation before an assault.   Deedy deployed himself defensively. 

2:41:36 angle 2: Deedy explains how long it takes to draw a firearm.  Drawing the firearm is already a 3-step action. Deedy explains that a kick is meant to create distance.  This is when he was launching a kick at Elderts.  Elderts was going straight at Deedy in the process of an assault.

2:41:35 angle 3: Elderts is coming at Deedy.  Byrd is trying to restrain Elderts.

2:41:36 Deedy's right foot kick hit Elderts left thigh.  Elderts countered Deedy's front kick, grabbing Deedy's heel and pull it up.  Elderts wasn't able to maintain hold of Deedy's heel but he was able to get Deedy's slipper.   
Deedy doesn't believe that the mark on Elderts' left shin was from his kick.   The kick created space.

2:41:42 Deedy stepped back.

Deedy explains that Elderts escalation from 0 to 60 in such a short time was not typical.  It was more of an assaultive, mentally unstable behavior, something that someone under the influence or narcotics or mentally unstable would do.

At 4:35 pm, the court adjourned for the day.  Testimony resumes at 9am tomorrow.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 08:43:28 PM by Jl808 »
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

Funtimes

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #431 on: August 06, 2013, 07:27:36 PM »
Thank you for that commentary. Super awesome for those who couldn't watch the video.  Personal thanks from me!
Check out the Hawaii Defense Foundation.
HDF on Facebook
Defender of the Accused in Arkansas Courts
Posts are not legal advice & are my own, unless said so.

Jl808

Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #432 on: August 06, 2013, 07:40:08 PM »
You're welcome!  It took a while but It was worth saving the testimony here for others to read. We could all learn something from it and it would help clarify for those wanting a fair trial / justice for Deedy and Elderts what happened that night.
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

michalebsdad

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #433 on: August 06, 2013, 07:46:12 PM »
Thanks a lot for the play by play...was the prosecution able to discredit any of that or haven't they gotten that far? Looks like he didn't do anything wrong! Honestly, I haven't followed this to much...

macsak

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #434 on: August 06, 2013, 07:47:19 PM »
can anyone confirm the part about touching your belt before you attack?
i know people who CCW sometimes reflexively touch their weapon when standing up or getting out of a car

Thank you for that commentary. Super awesome for those who couldn't watch the video.  Personal thanks from me!

bass monkey

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #435 on: August 06, 2013, 08:03:23 PM »
can anyone confirm the part about touching your belt before you attack?
i know people who CCW sometimes reflexively touch their weapon when standing up or getting out of a car

Go.watch some YouTube fight videos. Seems kinda normal to pull up your pants or tighten your belt. 
On the ccw comment, I guess your "reflexes" kick in and you react how you train. Just taking a stab here cause I'm not too familiar

42itus

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #436 on: August 06, 2013, 08:04:21 PM »
Awesome play by play. Thank you.

Q

.
« Reply #437 on: August 06, 2013, 08:25:11 PM »
.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 02:49:50 AM by Q »

Jl808

Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #438 on: August 06, 2013, 08:28:40 PM »
It was all defense asking the questions. Prosecution has not had a chance to cross examine. Defense witness is not yet done and probably resumes tomorrow.

Regarding the touching of the belt, Deedy explained that if someone was carrying a weapon, they will unconsciously touch it to make sure it is still there.  According to Deedy, it is a re-assurance and a "confidence builder" that one does during a situation.

The prosecution objected to part of this testimony (about Elderts touching his waistband) although I didn't understand it very well.
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

macsak

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #439 on: August 06, 2013, 08:37:20 PM »
probably objected to the fact that it was conjecture
defense should need to provide expert testimony or evidence that deedy received training re:this "tell"

It was all defense asking the questions. Prosecution has not had a chance to cross examine. Defense witness is not yet done and probably resumes tomorrow.

Regarding the touching of the belt, Deedy explained that if someone was carrying a weapon, they will unconsciously touch it to make sure it is still there.  According to Deedy, it is a re-assurance and a "confidence builder" that one does during a situation.

The prosecution objected to part of this testimony (about Elderts touching his waistband) although I didn't understand it very well.