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Deedy Trial - Injustice? (Read 320321 times)

pj_benn

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #520 on: August 10, 2013, 08:57:51 PM »
Quote from: macsak on August 10, 2013, 08:38:06 PM
exactly

"We will never know if Deedy was legally by definition intoxicated because a BAC and blood test was never taken."

which is different from your previous statement
"Moments later an intoxicated Deedy confronted Elderts,"
By that reasoning we don't know if the guy elderts was accused of bullying was drunk/high/completely sober either since there's no 'proof' (test)

We also don't know if elderts was actually bullying or just joking around... No 'proof' (audio tape)

I guess we should assume deedy didn't show n tell that he was a leo since video doesn't show him showing his credentials?

Guess we could sum it up as elderts who had drugs and alcohol in his system talked to a guy. Sat down. Was confronted. Was hit with a kick and was shot dead? That's what I got from the video n tox report (only solid proof)
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1422LR

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #521 on: August 10, 2013, 09:05:02 PM »
I do not like evil, that is why I cannot wait for Jesus to return.

The truth will be revealed in everything and in everyone.

I love the police force, but you all know that corruption sometimes happen.

Did it happen here, we don't know, but the door seems to be open.
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macsak

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #522 on: August 10, 2013, 09:11:12 PM »
this struck me as odd too
no one testified as to what type of training deedy received and confirmed that his actions were correct protocol
i find it hard to believe i (and kevin) thought of that and the defense didn't

Quote from: Kevin on August 10, 2013, 08:54:48 PM
Plus it seems his department is distancing themselves from him during his trial by not providing 'expert witnesses for his defense' thus a sign that they did not agree with his actions and or he broke company policy.
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Kingkeoni

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #523 on: August 10, 2013, 09:20:54 PM »
No one deserved to die that night.

I for one am not backing Deedy in this case, but the simple fact remains: if someone identifies themselves as law enforcement and you react with violence you take your life in your own hands.

Kollin Elderts did it and paid the ultimate price.

The 95 year old man did it and paid the ultimate price.

The military kid did it ( in his truck in Waikiki) and paid the ultimate price.

I am a local boy, born and raised here and to be honest, i love to scrap more than most, but...

If you do it with a law enforcement officer, you put your life at risk.

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pj_benn

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #524 on: August 10, 2013, 09:28:14 PM »
Only person that testified that deedy identified himself as leo was deedy himself. Nobody else seen or heard anything like that (not directed at you keons. Jus using this opportunity to point that out)
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Q

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« Reply #525 on: August 10, 2013, 09:34:59 PM »
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« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 02:54:43 AM by Q »
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Funtimes

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #526 on: August 10, 2013, 09:35:26 PM »
Quote from: macsak on August 10, 2013, 09:11:12 PM
this struck me as odd too
no one testified as to what type of training deedy received and confirmed that his actions were correct protocol
i find it hard to believe i (and kevin) thought of that and the defense didn't
Quote from: Kevin on August 10, 2013, 08:54:48 PM
Plus it seems his department is distancing themselves from him during his trial by not providing 'expert witnesses for his defense' thus a sign that they did not agree with his actions and or he broke company policy.

Department of State is not providing for his defense, as I don't think he will be able to claim working on the job.  On duty / on call etc. is not the same as being actively engaged in a work detail. In the same manner / circumstance, I think the city and county would likely not provide legal counsel to an officer either.

Experts can be costly though, and the prosecutions witnesses basically said hitting a cop could get you killed.   Even if he didn't show his badge, throwing someone on the ground, punching and kicking them is enough to justify lethal force. 

As far as the drinking, he seemed pretty damn collected even in the video.  To me, HPD's responses sounded like a D.U.I. police report.  The same stuff over and over. (it never really changes).  At the same time, I have seen them say people were drunk - when they were not, or exaggerate the smells and symptoms when someone is blowing like a .081 / .082.  I've seen guys, routinely, come to work "drunk" and be able to fully function and handle themselves in a intricate and determined manner. In fact, I would consider quite a few people that work in the military as functioning alcoholics.   I don't think .08 is really the end all be all, like many other things it varies on individuals.   Also, 4-5 hours and 4-5 drinks is not too much for out in town, especially if you are having beer.  I kind of think the alcohol thing may be a red herring.  Although it may have been a factor in leading to the altercation, it wasn't the determining factor of when deadly force is authorized.
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Q

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« Reply #527 on: August 10, 2013, 09:35:57 PM »
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« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 02:54:49 AM by Q »
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GZire

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #528 on: August 12, 2013, 08:03:17 AM »
Quote from: 1422LR on August 10, 2013, 09:05:02 PM
I do not like evil, that is why I cannot wait for Jesus to return.

The truth will be revealed in everything and in everyone.

I love the police force, but you all know that corruption sometimes happen.

Did it happen here, we don't know, but the door seems to be open.

Is there corruption?  Yes. Always, it is part of the human condition.

Is there corruption in this case?  I don't see it.  In fact I don't understand why you would say that.  Deedy has been charged with Murder 2 which is beyond what most people would think which is Manslaughter.  Local guys are trying Deedy and the Fed is staying out of it.  How is this corrupt?  If anything it's the exact opposite.  The case remains in local court and not Federal as was asked by the Defense earlier.  If this was HPD you can bet that the officer would have been cleared and be back at his job already.

We have to trust that the system works in this case and that the jury, which has sat and listened to all the testimony and viewed all the presented evidence, will make a decision in line with what the law affords.
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Jl808

Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #529 on: August 12, 2013, 08:20:10 AM »
Not to speak for 1422LR, but I wonder if he is talking about to what extent the lying is on both sides.

Because of conflicting witness testimonies, it is either:
(1) that some testifiers are lying (knowingly lying in court, making things up, poor choice of words, poor recollection)
(2) prosecution / defense attorneys did not ask the right questions (ex. asking "did you say 'I'm gonna shoot you in the face?'" vs. asking "did you say anything about using your firearm?") or
(3) parties involved did not hear each other / communicate clearly that night.

I guess at this point, we will never know the complete truth until judgment day when all will be revealed.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 08:51:39 AM by Jl808 »
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surfmaster

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #530 on: August 12, 2013, 08:55:35 AM »
The security guard at the McDonald's testified that Elderts and Medeiros were harassing Perrine and that it was more than just regular joking. Medeiros said he and Elderts were just joking with Perrine. I tend to believe the security guard because she's an unbiased witness, not Medeiros.

Deedy noticed things were getting heated and decided to intervene. It doesn't matter that Perrine didn't feel threatened. What matters is Deedy felt Perrine was threatened so he approached Elderts by showing his badge and telling him to stop bullying Perrine. As a law enforcement officer, Deedy has a duty to do this and to protect his friend who was being assaulted by Elderts and Medeiros.

The moment of truth occurs when Deedy warns Elderts that Deedy is a law enforcement officer, is armed and will shoot to stop Elderts. Like a fool, Elderts chose to ignore this threat. He paid the ultimate price that night for not stopping is belligerent behavior. As the saying goes, stupid as stupid does.
 
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aieahound

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #531 on: August 12, 2013, 09:44:05 AM »
Question for those who know:

Did Deedy have any limitation on his getting involved because no federal crime was being committed and he didn't have jurisdiction.

We talk about him being LEO, but he's actually federal LEO, not just any LEO.

He said in his testimony that the federal crime being committed was assault on a federal officer.
This occurred when he kicked Elderts, as he admittedly struck first. ( Sounds a little like when the guys face hit my hand he assaulted me )

Just curious if the prosecutor could bring this up in closing.
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Funtimes

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #532 on: August 12, 2013, 10:09:47 AM »
Quote from: aieahound on August 12, 2013, 09:44:05 AM
Question for those who know:

Did Deedy have any limitation on his getting involved because no federal crime was being committed and he didn't have jurisdiction.

We talk about him being LEO, but he's actually federal LEO, not just any LEO.

He said in his testimony that the federal crime being committed was assault on a federal officer.
This occurred when he kicked Elderts, as he admittedly struck first. ( Sounds a little like when the guys face hit my hand he assaulted me )

Just curious if the prosecutor could bring this up in closing.

There are some federal laws that cover discriminatory harassment. Intervening for the public good doesn't require a law either.  If you see someone doing something stupid, or unsafe, you can certainly tell them to stop. I don't *need* authority to do that, but it sure does help if I have a badge.
If you get into federal laws, there are so many ways they can hammer you it's not even funny.  Also, some federal agents do enforce State laws (base police are a great example).

Just quick random thing would be, his threats could have been affecting interstate commerce as any purchase does so.
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Funtimes

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #533 on: August 12, 2013, 10:20:20 AM »
I don't have time to find it right now, but most states have a statute giving powers to the feds.  Might be an idea to take a look at it and see if Hawaii has one  - many of them authorize for arrest and detention of misdemeanor and felony offenses of state law.
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oldfart

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #534 on: August 12, 2013, 10:24:50 AM »
I noticed a few members here who have assumed the role of cheerleaders for the defendant. Some messages seem to rejoice at the death of Mr. Elderts.

I think it would be wise to tone down the cheers for Mr. Deedy. Here is why I say this:

1- If the case for Deedy's actions were obvious, there would not be a long drawn out trial.
2- If it was that simple why are there 26 pages of comments on this forum?
3- Hawaii is a small place. There are almost 2000 members on this forum and an unknown number of lurkers.
It is almost 100% guaranteed there are blood relatives to Mr. Elderts enrolled here as members. I am pretty sure those cheering at the death of Mr. Elderts are making an unknown number of enemies.

Let me relate this story:
When I moved into my house 26 years ago, I had a good neighbor. About 10 years later, my Mom came to visit and went to church with that neighbor one Sunday. When she came back to the house she said, "Did you know that (the next door neighbor) is your not so distant cousin?"

The point is that living here in the islands, you need to be careful about how you conduct yourself. The world is a really small place, especially on an island.

(No....I am not related to Elderts)
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GZire

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #535 on: August 12, 2013, 10:51:45 AM »
^^^I agree with you on most points.  I will also say this however.  This is not a long drawn out case. 

The long drawn out case will be when Elderts family sues Deedy in civil court.
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robtmc

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #536 on: August 12, 2013, 10:58:15 AM »
Quote from: Funtimes on August 12, 2013, 10:20:20 AM
I don't have time to find it right now, but most states have a statute giving powers to the feds.  Might be an idea to take a look at it and see if Hawaii has one  - many of them authorize for arrest and detention of misdemeanor and felony offenses of state law.

This Deedy character has testified that he did not know Hawaii laws.  So much for using this excuse for butting into things.

 
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Funtimes

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #537 on: August 12, 2013, 11:02:08 AM »
Quote from: robtmc on August 12, 2013, 10:58:15 AM
This Deedy character has testified that he did not know Hawaii laws.  So much for using this excuse for butting into things.

 

What part of you don't need a law for the public good didn't you understand?  If an officer feels there a hazard to another individuals safety - they don't need to be able to quote the state statute.  They are already covered!
I also don't need "jurisdiction" to say something to you.  Elderts was not stopped, detained, or placed under arrest by a Federal Agent - therefore, Deedy didn't even need to know any State laws or regulations.
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1422LR

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #538 on: August 12, 2013, 11:15:41 AM »
Quote from: GZire on August 12, 2013, 08:03:17 AM
Is there corruption in this case?  I don't see it.  In fact I don't understand why you would say that.  .


http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/22878314/day-8-supervising-police-officer-testifies-at-deedy-trial

Day 8: Supervising police officer explains why Deedy not checked for alcohol

"I could smell a strong odor of what appeared to be alcoholic beverages on his breath. He was semi-unsteady on his feet," he said.


Comment: What’s this?
"I describe it as an 'Oh, no!' moment because it was a law enforcement officer," Schreiner said.





*  This "oh, no" moment raises a red flag for me.  Why? Because is this now a "code of silence" moment?  It could also be absolutely nothing, but you got to cover and uncover all the bases.

After this event the BAC and blood test was never taken.  If Deedy was indeed drunk this test would say, and now because it was not taken, the evidence is destroyed.



I am not accusing anyone,  but if those bases were covered, it would be easier for everyone involved.
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robtmc

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #539 on: August 12, 2013, 11:42:06 AM »
Quote from: Funtimes on August 12, 2013, 11:02:08 AM
What part of you don't need a law for the public good didn't you understand?  If an officer feels there a hazard to another individuals safety - they don't need to be able to quote the state statute.  They are already covered!

I understand what you are saying just fine.  You think that any cop from anywhere, sober or not, should be able to inject themselves into a situation.  If they end up killing someone because things do not go their way, no problemo, "They are already covered!"

You have far more faith in the motives and personalities of cops than I do.
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