22lr for home defense? (Read 60835 times)

MDS

Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #80 on: July 28, 2013, 10:54:42 PM »
Suicide is NOT the same as a defensive firearm use / death.
You are correct, but it does demonstrate some form of "reliability" ;)
Most gunshot wounds are 22 caliber, how's that one work?

Aiea78

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Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #81 on: July 28, 2013, 10:55:42 PM »
Not sure what I want to add to this discussion at this point but can't stop thinking about that lady who retreated with her kids all the way into the closet and was forced to shoot the perp in the face 5x and he still wasn't DRT.  Wasn't it .38 cal revolver?
Assault Rifle? What I have here is an Anti-Assault Rifle.
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Trumper

Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #82 on: July 28, 2013, 10:56:25 PM »
You are correct, but it does demonstrate some form of "reliability" ;)
Most gunshot wounds are 22 caliber, how's that one work?

it works lots of people underestimate that caliber and thats why a lot of people are killed by it

MDS

Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #83 on: July 28, 2013, 11:00:46 PM »
Anyone want to explain why this guy is getting so bent out of shape over .22lr?

My input: compared to everything else, it sucks balls.

P.S. the reason you can't get .22lr is not because is so fantastically awesome for self defense, but because its cheap to shoot compared to everything else. Don't fool yourself into thinking people are bulk buying because its superior; if 7.62x39 was 500 rounds for $20, you bet your ass people would be buying that over .22lr
LOL No, you're correct, my 50 cal is far more superior. But I'll bet you more people carry a .22 than any other firearm. They'll seldom fess up and endorse it but they certainly find them pleasing to carry. What's up with that?
 

Kingkeoni

Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #84 on: July 28, 2013, 11:00:55 PM »
You are correct, but it does demonstrate some form of "reliability" ;)
Most gunshot wounds are 22 caliber, how's that one work?

It works because 22 caliber gunshot wounds encompasses: 22 short, 22 long, 22 long rifle, 22wmr, 22 hornet, 220 swift, .223, .224, 556, 22-250, etc...

The stats are compiled based on bullet width.

Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

Cougar8045

Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #85 on: July 28, 2013, 11:06:19 PM »
You are correct, but it does demonstrate some form of "reliability" ;)
Most gunshot wounds are 22 caliber, how's that one work?
Jeez, this is starting to be more sad than fun.  I almost feel bad for bursting your bubble, but the frequency of shootings involving 22s is a function of it's overall popularity (basically every single gun owner has one) and its particular popularity as a first firearm for kids.  You really should read a few books, take a few classes, and keep an open mind.
I'm just a fluffy white bunny rabbit who lost his way. 

"If a thief be found breaking in, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. ..."  -Exodus 22:2

moosed

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Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #86 on: July 28, 2013, 11:32:46 PM »
There's nothing universal about applying a tool to any job.  There are basics which may be universal, but application, suitability, etc. are guided by many variables.

There are 4 universal recommendations I have seen mentioned time and again about choosing the right home defense weapon:

#1 - Shotguns are the best weapon for home defense. 
       Long guns have more stopping power than a pistol (faster projectile coupled with greater accuracy). 
       The biggest benefit of shotguns is their ability to shoot shot, resulting in the spreading out of the shot.  This allows a larger area to be hit with each trigger pull, reducing the requirement for precision shooting, and, depending on the type of ammunition and range, can cause greater damage than a single bullet from a handgun.
       They require less skill to learn to shoot accurately. 
       They are much less complicated to operate.
       They are not as picky with regard to the brand or type of ammo they can use reliably.
       Pump action and break-open action shotguns are more reliable than semiauto handguns.
       Shot shells are relatively cheaper and more available right now than many pistol ammo calibers.

#2 - If choosing a pistol for HD, a revolver is a better choice than a semiauto.
       For first time handgun owners, revolvers are probably the better choice.
       The design is simple, and the use is even simpler. 
       Revolvers can be operated more easily and safely than a semi (e.g. clearing the weapon for cleaning).
       The more complicated design of pistols creates more opportunities for the failure of one or more components to disable it  Requires extra training and practice to ensure the steps to clear a stoppage and return the firearm to working order can be performed instinctively.  By comparison, this makes the revolver more reliable in a HD situation.
       
#3 - For more experienced users, or users willing to take a formal instruction, a semi-automatic handgun may make more sense due to their increased capacity and easier follow-up shots.
       Full-size frame handguns are recommended for HD, having a barrel length 4"-6.5".  Easier to control than compact handguns (better accuracy and follow ups in an HD situation), less felt muzzle flip & recoil due to larger size and weight, and normally easier for most to learn to shoot than a smaller pistol.
       
#4 - The best caliber to use in a handgun is the largest round you can routinely use accurately, can afford to buy for practice, and which satisfies any limitations or constraints you personally have, such as maximum number of rounds in the mags, weight being carried in your holster (if you also use the gun for open or concealed carry), how it fits your hand, the need to consider over-penetration, etc., etc.  If this describes .22LR, then that's what you need to use.

Conclusions:  For defense within the home, the shotgun is generally recognized by many to be a superior choice due to the close ranges and reduced likelihood of over-penetration. Not to mention, the sound of a shotgun being racked delivers the universal message that says "wrong house, go away".

As to the question of which pistol caliber is best, given the same shooter in the same situation with the same skills and experience, IT IS ALL RELATIVE, and it depends on the circumstances during the attack.  The many variables which can make a small round a better choice can also make same round totally ineffective by comparison, given changes in those variables.

There are, of course, many "negatives" in addition to each of the above "positives."  None of them, with regard to basic suitability and reliability, change the conclusions.  The negatives go back to limitations, constraints, and suitability to a given set of circumstances.

This is not my opinion, but a collection of several source's opinions and recommendations I've read over the last 8 months.  Hopefully something here will add to the discussion at hand!

Aloha!
 :geekdanc:
       
When only cops have guns, it's called a "police state".

Funtimes

Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #87 on: July 28, 2013, 11:38:57 PM »
Check out the Hawaii Defense Foundation.
HDF on Facebook
Defender of the Accused in Arkansas Courts
Posts are not legal advice & are my own, unless said so.

Kingkeoni

Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #88 on: July 28, 2013, 11:41:33 PM »
FBI - Handgun Wounding Factors

Chris your link has links to some very personal documents..
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

Q

.
« Reply #89 on: July 29, 2013, 12:15:44 AM »
.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 11:19:27 PM by Q »

Funtimes

Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #90 on: July 29, 2013, 07:15:53 AM »
Chris your link has links to some very personal documents..


All my scribd stuff is either school work, or documents that we sent people (like city and county).  Thanks for looking out though!
Check out the Hawaii Defense Foundation.
HDF on Facebook
Defender of the Accused in Arkansas Courts
Posts are not legal advice & are my own, unless said so.

mykdebauch

Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #91 on: July 29, 2013, 08:59:04 AM »
idk about 22lr but i think 22 mag would be a viable choice, especially in something like the PMR-30, with 30rds of 22mag in the magazine it doesn't sound like a bad idea. too bad were limited to 10rd in hawaii though.

aieahound

Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #92 on: July 29, 2013, 10:23:51 AM »
22LR might be a good HD round if you can sneak up behind the perp and put 1 or 2 into his head behind the ear Mafia style.  :shake:

In seriousness though, if that's all my wife can shoot accurately, then I'm considering it. ( In addition to other more substantial weapons for myself.)

Any gun gives her a better chance than a broomstick.

moosed

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Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #93 on: July 29, 2013, 10:34:08 AM »
22LR might be a good HD round if you can sneak up behind the perp and put 1 or 2 into his head behind the ear Mafia style.  :shake:

In seriousness though, if that's all my wife can shoot accurately, then I'm considering it. ( In addition to other more substantial weapons for myself.)

Any gun gives her a better chance than a broomstick.

I can see  a .22 pistol being handy.  Your wife can use it to fend off the attacker long enough to get to the shotgun!   ;)

As many have stated here before, the mere presentation of a firearm is "normally | usually | often" enough of a deterrent to end a confrontation.  Statistics on how often that happens are under-reported, since the situation was neutralized without gunfire, injury, or death.

In that regard, presentation of a .22 pistol should have close to the same effect as a .38 or 9mm in terms of preventing an attack.
When only cops have guns, it's called a "police state".

Kingkeoni

Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #94 on: July 29, 2013, 11:17:10 AM »
idk about 22lr but i think 22 mag would be a viable choice, especially in something like the PMR-30, with 30rds of 22mag in the magazine it doesn't sound like a bad idea. too bad were limited to 10rd in hawaii though.

The PMR 30 is a real nice gun.
Light, accurate and stoked with 2200 fps hornady V-max, quite effective.
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

Aiea78

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Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #95 on: July 29, 2013, 11:18:21 AM »
If somebody determined enough to break in here they need to be shot with anything I have until stopped. 
KEEP FKG OUT.

(that said, reconsider any shot from behind unless perp advancing on or has loved one hostage etc.)
Assault Rifle? What I have here is an Anti-Assault Rifle.
Proud Member 2016 2a Day Dozen open holster carry crew yo

Funtimes

Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #96 on: July 29, 2013, 11:22:51 AM »
I can see  a .22 pistol being handy.  Your wife can use it to fend off the attacker long enough to get to the shotgun!   ;)

As many have stated here before, the mere presentation of a firearm is "normally | usually | often" enough of a deterrent to end a confrontation.  Statistics on how often that happens are under-reported, since the situation was neutralized without gunfire, injury, or death.

In that regard, presentation of a .22 pistol should have close to the same effect as a .38 or 9mm in terms of preventing an attack.

To me still is reliability for the pistols.  From what I have seen though, the little SMG 22's and rifles seem to function way better!  I don't have personal experience on that though since I don't own one (yet).
Check out the Hawaii Defense Foundation.
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Posts are not legal advice & are my own, unless said so.

aieahound

Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #97 on: July 29, 2013, 11:42:10 AM »
The PMR 30 is a real nice gun.
Light, accurate and stoked with 2200 fps hornady V-max, quite effective.

I didn't realize 22WMR was that much more powerful than 22LR until I picked one up.

22WMR will EXPLODE a head of cabbage.

Do they sell 10 round mags for the PMR 30 or do they have to be blocked like the Springfield XDM ?
( off-topic but same questions for the FN Five-Seven ) 

Kingkeoni

Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #98 on: July 29, 2013, 11:44:00 AM »
I didn't realize 22WMR was that much more powerful than 22LR until I picked one up.

22WMR will EXPLODE a head of cabbage.

Do they sell 10 round mags for the PMR 30 or do they have to be blocked like the Springfield XDM ?
( off-topic but same questions for the FN Five-Seven )

Cost of ammo is considerably less for 22wmr compared to 5.7x28

Not sure about the mags
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

ButtNutt

Re: 22lr for home defense?
« Reply #99 on: July 29, 2013, 12:00:36 PM »
For what its worth, over the last 20 of reading the NRA 'armed citizen', I guess I've read of a couple of dozen fatal resident-on-perp shootings in HD situations in which a 22 'revolver' was used. There are a lot of variables determining the fatal outcome I'm sure, but for what its worth.....
Also, remember a .25 or .380 JHP may be a good compromise as far as lethality vs earsaving, relative to earsplitters like 357 or 45.