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Read My Primers Please (Read 35346 times)

rklapp

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2017, 07:56:28 AM »
The primers look almost melted. Primer pocket too loose on some of cases?  Just spit balling...
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Heavies

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2017, 09:23:44 AM »
I'd go with Dave's suggestion on checking headspace. The brass is pre-processed, so they are probably sized to minimum size so that they'll work in any chamber.  Maybe a few are too short, base to shoulder.  That could happen with application of too much lube, especially if the die is already set to size the maximum amount.

Also, rem700s are not known for tightest of chambers. That's not a necessarily a bad thing. But just something that one should be aware of.

Was the rounds being fired one right after another?  Did you chamber any rounds in the hot rifle and have it sitting for a few minutes before breaking the shot?

Having a hot rifle isn't necessarily a bad thing for load development, however, I don't like to have rounds sitting in the hot chamber too long before breaking a shot.  I usually chamber the round right when I'm ready to shoot. I actually want the barrel to be hot during LD,  That way I can find the most consistent load for cold bore and hot as well.

I think your 45.5 load is the sweet spot for your rifle. Slight adjustment of seating depth in .002" increments will find the tightest groups in no time.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 09:29:39 AM by Heavies »
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Inspector

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2017, 09:54:10 AM »
Quote from: Heavies on August 07, 2017, 09:23:44 AM
I'd go with Dave's suggestion on checking headspace. The brass is pre-processed, so they are probably sized to minimum size so that they'll work in any chamber.  Maybe a few are too short, base to shoulder.  That could happen with application of too much lube, especially if the die is already set to size the maximum amount.
Exactly what I was thinking. Or possibly the use of two different sizing dies set differently with the brass from two different sizing dies being intermixed? The thing that bothers me is this does not seem random enough. For instance, why isn't there 2 or more flattened primers per group? Or two flattened primers in one group and not in another group? Which is why I asked if this happens exactly every 5th round? Or maybe the last round of each group? Or something that would show consistency. Right now the one flattened primer per group seems too consistent for something that should be totally random.

Dogman,

From what I read you used the cases directly from Kaleo without resizing them yourself before reloading them? Is this correct? Could you have possibly mixed some cases straight from Kaleo with some you resized yourself? I would like to ask you to carefully resize a number of cases yourself, reload them as normal for 2 or 3 groups and then retry some of your testing to see if this still occurs. With your cases resized consistently you should see more consistent results as far as the primer flattening is concerned. Either all flattened or none flattened. If you still get the same one flattened primer per group then we can probably eliminate a headspace problem.

Another question. When closing the bolt on each round did you ever notice that one round per group was much harder to close the bolt on than the rest? Just trying to determine if your bullets were shoved up against the lands in the chamber for some rounds and maybe not for others. Just another theory I am chasing in case the headspace theory goes nowhere.
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Rocky

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2017, 10:03:49 AM »
Quote from: Inspector on August 07, 2017, 09:54:10 AM
Exactly what I was thinking. Or possibly the use of two different sizing dies set differently with the brass from two different sizing dies being intermixed? The thing that bothers me is this does not seem random enough. For instance, why isn't there 2 or more flattened primers per group? Or two flattened primers in one group and not in another group? Which is why I asked if this happens exactly every 5th round? Or maybe the last round of each group? Or something that would show consistency. Right now the one flattened primer per group seems too consistent for something that should be totally random.

Dogman,

From what I read you used the cases directly from Kaleo without resizing them yourself before reloading them? Is this correct? Could you have possibly mixed some cases straight from Kaleo with some you resized yourself? I would like to ask you to carefully resize a number of cases yourself, reload them as normal for 2 or 3 groups and then retry some of your testing to see if this still occurs. With your cases resized consistently you should see more consistent results as far as the primer flattening is concerned. Either all flattened or none flattened. If you still get the same one flattened primer per group then we can probably eliminate a headspace problem.

Another question. When closing the bolt on each round did you ever notice that one round per group was much harder to close the bolt on than the rest? Just trying to determine if your bullets were shoved up against the lands in the chamber for some rounds and maybe not for others. Just another theory I am chasing in case the headspace theory goes nowhere.

That's what I was thinking, the "Ogive" factor creating higher pressures.  :geekdanc:
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Inspector

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2017, 10:10:12 AM »
Quote from: Rocky on August 07, 2017, 10:03:49 AM
That's what I was thinking, the "Ogive" factor creating higher pressures.  :geekdanc:
Exactly. I have reloaded for one of my bolt guns where I kept the bullet .001 or .002 off the lands. And occasionally I have a round or two that would touch the lands prior to completely closing the bolt. I chalked it up to my not using the most precise and accurate equipment and possibly the "Ogive" factor. More than likely the human error factor.  :oops: :oops: :oops:
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Heavies

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #45 on: August 07, 2017, 10:10:23 AM »
Quote from: Rocky on August 07, 2017, 10:03:49 AM
That's what I was thinking, the "Ogive" factor creating higher pressures.  :geekdanc:

Rock, there is no way the ogive is touching in a factory Remington chamber with 150 grain boolits. 
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Inspector

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2017, 10:11:44 AM »
Quote from: Heavies on August 07, 2017, 10:10:23 AM
Rock, there is no way the ogive is touching in a factory Remington chamber with 150 grain boolits.
Well, that blows that theory!  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Heavies

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2017, 10:14:12 AM »
Remington 700 chambers are notorious for having a very long lead to the lands and grooves.  Unless something is cut wrong in this particular rifle..

It's like that for safety factor, because they don't know what kind of ammo people will put in there.

At mag length, a boolits ogive is nowhere near the throat
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Bushido

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2017, 07:19:01 PM »
I did buy some 556 brass from Kaleo for the "just in case" times. I measured the shoulder bump with a RCBS precision mic and it is bumped quite a bit back. I think most brass guys do it so it fits in any and all chambers. Nice looking brass and I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them again if needed.
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Bushido

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #49 on: August 07, 2017, 07:26:48 PM »
Since Dogman isn't sizing the brass, could the bullet, on some cases be setting back when chambering? Possibly from not enough neck tension on some cases? I don't believe it was mentioned that he was seating "X" amount off the lands so he's proably book length COAL.

I would neck size some of the brass and try another test batch. At some point he may want to know exactly where his headspace is by finding where his bolt is hard to close. From there bump .002" or whatever he feels good with.
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Hi state

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #50 on: August 07, 2017, 07:28:09 PM »
As stated previously there's no way the bullet loaded at 2.80 is gonna touch the lands,and looking at the factory ammo you shot it doesn't look like your getting the flattened issues like the other brass. I would guess the brass that you got could be sized back to much for your rifle.  I would suggest you measure your fired cases and then bump the shoulder back .0015-.002 and load a few and see how that helps your primer issue
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dogman

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #51 on: August 07, 2017, 07:35:15 PM »
Wow, I have a few things to address here. Thanks for the thoughts guys. Lets start with this.
Quote from: Inspector on August 07, 2017, 04:38:22 AM
Dogman,
Can you take a closeup of the side of the cases with flattened primers? I am looking for possible stretch marks or discoloration near the case head. If those marks exist it means a headspace problem on those cases. It might help to narrow down your issue.
The cases with the flattened primers do have a ring approximately 3/8" from the case head. This is only on the cases with the flattened primers. The photo on the right has cases with flattened primer on the right and good primers on the left. Significant?

Ohh, the close ups with the four cases, the case on the right does not have a flattened primer...for comparison.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 07:43:12 PM by dogman »
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macsak

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #52 on: August 07, 2017, 07:39:16 PM »
Quote from: dogman on August 07, 2017, 07:35:15 PM
Wow, I have a few things to address here. Thanks for the thoughts guys. Lets start with this.The cases with the flattened primers do have a ring approximately 3/8" from the case head. This is only on the cases with the flattened primers. The photo on the right has cases with flattened primer on the right and good primers on the left. Significant?

the cases are also a different color
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dogman

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #53 on: August 07, 2017, 07:43:57 PM »
Quote from: macsak on August 07, 2017, 07:39:16 PM
the cases are also a different color
Lighting
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macsak

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #54 on: August 07, 2017, 07:47:24 PM »
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ren

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #55 on: August 07, 2017, 07:49:16 PM »
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Deeds Not Words

macsak

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #56 on: August 07, 2017, 08:02:33 PM »
Quote from: ren on August 07, 2017, 07:49:16 PM


that's not lighting
the veneers are only on the upper premolars and anteriors
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Inspector

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #57 on: August 07, 2017, 08:03:32 PM »
Quote from: dogman on August 07, 2017, 07:35:15 PM
Wow, I have a few things to address here. Thanks for the thoughts guys. Lets start with this.The cases with the flattened primers do have a ring approximately 3/8" from the case head. This is only on the cases with the flattened primers. The photo on the right has cases with flattened primer on the right and good primers on the left. Significant?

Ohh, the close ups with the four cases, the case on the right does not have a flattened primer...for comparison.
Okay, we have made a lot of progress here. That ring, without being able to see the cases in person, looks like a headspace issue. This stretching of the case is typical of a cartridge that is headspaced forward of the bolt too far. The question remains why just certain cases and not others. But the solution is a simple one. Resize your brass properly before reloading. It may take a little trial and error to get the shoulder bumped back to the proper place but that is what appears to me to be the problem.

I want to say to everyone here that reloads, when you get brass from any source, new or once fired, processed or not, I highly recommend you resize all the cases and do your due diligence preparation before you reload them.
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ren

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #58 on: August 07, 2017, 08:09:26 PM »
if it is stretching around that external ring get a paper clip and feel on the inside of the case if there is a depression
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Bushido

Re: Read My Primers Please
« Reply #59 on: August 07, 2017, 08:10:16 PM »
I have first seen first hand case seperation from cases that have been "over" full length sized. I prefer to get once fired brass and prep them myself. What can I say, I'm cheap and will take any brass. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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