2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: ButtNutt on August 28, 2013, 08:41:35 PM
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Look at this vid and tell me why you think its real or fake. Just curious, cause it looks and sounds real but some things don't add up, physics wise. Sorry if this has been discussed already.
http://youtu.be/0ABGIJwiGBc
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OP, care to post your theories???
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Lots of opinions here. Some say the sound is especially realistic during return leg.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270455 (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270455)
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what?
no question
everything on the internet is real
http://2ahawaii.com/Smileys/extended/afro.gif (http://2ahawaii.com/Smileys/extended/afro.gif)
Look at this vid and tell me why you think its real or fake. Just curious, cause it looks and sounds real but some things don't add up, physics wise. Sorry if this has been discussed already.
http://youtu.be/0ABGIJwiGBc (http://youtu.be/0ABGIJwiGBc)
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Lots of opinions here. Some say the sound is especially realistic during return leg.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270455 (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270455)
Interesting thread. But nobody mentions the most obvious:
The bullet comes straight back. That's not a ricochet. For the bullet to get back in his vicinity it would have to glance off numerous objects at shallow angles to arrive anywhere near him. It can't just hit a plate and reverse direction. Also, considering bullets typically ricochet at the same angle it hits an object, for it to hit the ground ~20 ft from him and hit his headset, it would have to had come from high up at a steep angle. To have come off a plate a few feet off the ground and hit the dirt in front of him, the angle would have been so shallow it would have hit him in the ankle or leg at the most. Just was wondering if anyone or the military guys here could explain what appears to defy physics, if they thought it was real.
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Interesting thread. But nobody mentions the most obvious:
The bullet comes straight back. That's not a ricochet. For the bullet to get back in his vicinity it would have to glance off numerous objects at shallow angles to arrive anywhere near him. It can't just hit a plate and reverse direction. Also, considering bullets typically ricochet at the same angle it hits an object, for it to hit the ground ~20 ft from him and hit his headset, it would have to had come from high up at a steep angle. To have come off a plate a few feet off the ground and hit the dirt in front of him, the angle would have been so shallow it would have hit him in the ankle or leg at the most. Just was wondering if anyone or the military guys here could explain what appears to defy physics, if they thought it was real.
Just a guess, but it hit the ground quite a few feet in front of him then came back up. That's 2 ricochets and angles...
I believe the bullet hit the ground, which to me means it did come off at an angle: down. You couldn't see the target well, so if it was angled down or deformed with the hit, that could cause the downward return trajectory.
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Just a guess, but it hit the ground quite a few feet in front of him then came back up. That's 2 ricochets and angles...
I believe the bullet hit the ground, which to me means it did come off at an angle: down. You couldn't see the target well, so if it was angled down or deformed with the hit, that could cause the downward return trajectory.
Yeah that's a possibility. Who knows. Even with that scenario, it still comes right back at him. Hmmm....
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I once fired a .22 pistol at 50 feet; the bullet hit a cinder block wall, bounced straight back and hit me in the upper left arm. So, as far as I'm concerned bullets can bounce straight back towards you--not very common but it can happen.
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Hey Jack, I was the one filming it!!!! at the time I sounded white, and I was in the kkk!!! So my friend it is real!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Freak accident maybe, but .50 cal ricochet would at least knock him out or worst.
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Here's a similar incident.....
http://youtu.be/IPZyBLv0ijc (http://youtu.be/IPZyBLv0ijc)
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OK, the guy (in the first video) appears to be shooting right handed, and the rifle appears to be a left-hand ejecting semi auto--any idea what make/model that might be?
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Stood next to a guy at a local indoor range who was going of with his pistol, next thing you know blood all over his face due to a ricochet. Go figure
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Here's a similar incident.....
Holy crap. Same thing. How does a bullet come back 180, even on an angle?!
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Holy crap. Same thing. How does a bullet come back 180, even on an angle?!
It can't. Either it's 180 deg or another angle. Can't be 180 deg AND at another angle!
It returns at an angle LESS than 180 from the horizontal plane. it then hits the dirt, and deflects at an upward angle. There is not a 180 deg return path.
If the Earth had not been in the way, the bullet would have continued downward, traveling underneath and behind the shooter.
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It can't. Either it's 180 deg or another angle. Can't be 180 deg AND at another angle!
It returns at an angle LESS than 180 from the horizontal plane. it then hits the dirt, and deflects at an upward angle. There is not a 180 deg return path.
If the Earth had not been in the way, the bullet would have continued downward, traveling underneath and behind the shooter.
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Lol. Yes of course. You're taking me words too 'exactly'. What I mean by 180 is that the general return direction is the opposite of the initial direction. i.e.180 deg colloquially - not mathematically. So what I meant was, I find it surprising that the bullet can come back the 'opposite' direction that it initially was traveling, even considering it was with an angle, as you point out - albeit, a very shallow one.
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http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/517111-breaking-bad (http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/517111-breaking-bad)
Dude. That's hysterical.
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The real question isn't how does something like this happen. The question should be: how does this happen and the bullet be just far enough off center to avoid hitting the shooter between the eyes!!?? These guys must be feeling pretty darn lucky to have been that close to checking out and being spared!
And the follow-up question: Did you use up all your luck in that one moment, or do you feel so lucky you buy a ticket on the next flight to Vegas? :wave:
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Dude. That's hysterical.
frick man i have no clue why its not popping up!
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frick man i have no clue why its not popping up!
Try viagra
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Try viagra
Dammit im all out!!!! ask your dad if he could give me some :shaka:
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frick man i have no clue why its not popping up!
Yeah. Too bad. Cuz posting that pic right after the other dudes comment woulda been classic!!
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Dammit im all out!!!! ask your dad if he could give me some :shaka:
My mom and dad divorced when I was three because he was an illiterate drunk, but thanks for bringing that up. ???
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Yeah. Too bad. Cuz posting that pic right after the other dudes comment woulda been classic!!
but i got to, if you click on it it'll pop up.
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My mom and dad divorced when I was three because he was an illiterate drunk, but thanks for bringing that up. ???
are you fucking with me right now? but hey man thats what the 2a community is for, here a smiley face to cheer you up :D and a :thumbsup: for hanging in there and being a trooper when times was rough!!!!
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are you fucking with me right now? but hey man thats what the 2a community is for, here a smiley face to cheer you up :D and a :thumbsup: for hanging in there and being a trooper when times was rough!!!!
Nope. True story.
Ironic how something you joke about isn't very funny for others..... :(
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Nope. True story.
Ironic how something you joke about isn't very funny for others..... :(
same boat man, same boat. if you know what i mean....
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same boat man, same boat. if you know what i mean....
Oh, you're saying I struck a nerve with the viagra comment? Sorry! Just intuition at work, I guess! :oops:
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The real question isn't how does something like this happen. The question should be: how does this happen and the bullet be just far enough off center to avoid hitting the shooter between the eyes!!?? These guys must be feeling pretty darn lucky to have been that close to checking out and being spared!
And the follow-up question: Did you use up all your luck in that one moment, or do you feel so lucky you buy a ticket on the next flight to Vegas? :wave:
Yeah man. I'd say next time there's a bullet in the neighborhood....it's got your name on it. Cus yu use all yur luck up on that one!
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but i got to, if you click on it it'll pop up.
Yeahhh bitches. Now it works :0
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Shit. I lose reception driving home, now I get back on this thread and it sounds like a friggin group session for sorry bitches going on hea :D
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Shit. I lose reception driving home, now I get back on this thread and it sounds like a friggin group session for sorry bitches going on hea :D
Just trying teach jayguns not to mess with me. Keeping him off balance! :D >:D :geekdanc: :D >:D :geekdanc: :D >:D :geekdanc:
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:stopjack:
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:stopjack:
:sleeping:
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I think it's possible, but I don't think it's the whole bullet. If you look at high velocity impacts, from meteors hitting the moon to (scaled down in terms of tensile strength) a drop of water falling into water, there is a central area in which the struck medium bounces back and would throw a column upward. As I understand it, this is what usually forms the central peak in many meteor craters.
The problem in "seeing" this is in realizing that the strength of the materials, be it of rock or steel plate, becomes a smaller and smaller part of the whole picture as velocity is increased. At, say, the 15 to 30 kilometers per second of a meteor strike, strength of materials effectively does not exist --as in the water drop hitting water analogy I posed above and the videos I found below.
Moreover, as I see it, the crater (in a steel plate, for example), may be formed just deep enough that the material of the impactor can "turn around" in the crater and can reflect straight back, or if the impact object is angled slightly some portion of the impactor can reflect back to the source of the impactor.
The parameters of both these incidents shown in the previous videos probably fell into the right combination for these things to happen.
Moral of the story is that unless your "backstop" is angled far enough, the possibility of fragments coming back is real. (You will notice that the armor plate backstops in indoor ranges is always at an acute angle to the firing points.)
I began my admittedly informal "study" of high velocity impacts when I started to wonder how come almost all craters on the moon are circular, when obviously, the impactors (meteors) do not necessarily come down perpendicular to the moon's surface.
I was quite surprised at the results. It turns out that unless the impactor strikes at a pretty acute angle (IIRC 20 degrees), the impact crater will be circular. There are a few known elliptical craters here on earth, one set of which are somewhere in Peru or Chile or someplace in South America.
Here are some examples of impacts where "tensile strength" is very low in the impact of water drops striking a surface:
Slow Motion 02 - Vertical Water Drop on Superhydrophobic Surface (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znfO71VzzgE#)
Water Drop Hitting Water Surface in Slow Motion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO1knd--3Mo#)
Also, to help visualize the phenomenon, remember the movie clips we've seen of machine gun bullets hitting water at very acute angles? Note that even in these instances, a vertical water spout usually occurs.
High velocity impacts are interesting things, all in all. Our "boys" in those videos just happened to be in the intersections of probability, strength of materials, angle of impact, range from the target, ricochet angle, etc. I myself have had a couple of incidents similar to these. I once had a bullet come back and clip a little branch off a tree next to me.
Unlucky branch.
Lucky me.
Terry, 230RN
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yeah, i think we all missed the point (because some of us are pretty far from our last studies of physics) that the equal and opposite angle thing relies on (i think- it has been a LONG time for me since i took physics in college) conservation of mass and energy
that is, there is no breakup of the object on impact and no energy is absorbed by the material that is struck by the object
if i am not misremembering, the equal and opposite angle thing is only in the ideal case
the flight of the bullet (and ricochet) are both affected by wind, gravity, etc and are FAR from an ideal case
I think it's possible, but I don't think it's the whole bullet. If you look at high velocity impacts, from meteors hitting the moon to (scaled down in terms of tensile strength) a drop of water falling into water, there is a central area in which the struck medium bounces back and would throw a column upward. As I understand it, this is what usually forms the central peak in many meteor craters.
The problem in "seeing" this is in realizing that the strength of the materials, be it of rock or steel plate, becomes a smaller and smaller part of the whole picture as velocity is increased. At, say, the 15 to 30 kilometers per second of a meteor strike, strength of materials effectively does not exist --as in the water drop hitting water analogy I posed above and the videos I found below.
Moreover, as I see it, the crater (in a steel plate, for example), may be formed just deep enough that the material of the impactor can "turn around" in the crater and can reflect straight back, or if the impact object is angled slightly some portion of the impactor can reflect back to the source of the impactor.
The parameters of both these incidents shown in the previous videos probably fell into the right combination for these things to happen.
Moral of the story is that unless your "backstop" is angled far enough, the possibility of fragments coming back is real. (You will notice that the armor plate backstops in indoor ranges is always at an acute angle to the firing points.)
I began my admittedly informal "study" of high velocity impacts when I started to wonder how come almost all craters on the moon are circular, when obviously, the impactors (meteors) do not necessarily come down perpendicular to the moon's surface.
I was quite surprised at the results. It turns out that unless the impactor strikes at a pretty acute angle (IIRC 20 degrees), the impact crater will be circular. There are a few known elliptical craters here on earth, one set of which are somewhere in Peru or Chile or someplace in South America.
Here are some examples of impacts where "tensile strength" is very low in the impact of water drops striking a surface:
Slow Motion 02 - Vertical Water Drop on Superhydrophobic Surface (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znfO71VzzgE#)
Water Drop Hitting Water Surface in Slow Motion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO1knd--3Mo#)
Also, to help visualize the phenomenon, remember the movie clips we've seen of machine gun bullets hitting water at very acute angles? Note that even in these instances, a vertical water spout usually occurs.
High velocity impacts are interesting things, all in all. Our "boys" in those videos just happened to be in the intersections of probability, strength of materials, angle of impact, range from the target, ricochet angle, etc. I myself have had a couple of incidents similar to these. I once had a bullet come back and clip a little branch off a tree next to me.
Unlucky branch.
Lucky me.
Terry, 230RN
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Just trying teach jayguns not to mess with me. Keeping him off balance! :D >:D :geekdanc: :D >:D :geekdanc: :D >:D :geekdanc:
thats when your wrong salad boy! Only the master Bruce Lee has the real knowledge and proper skills to teach Balance..... So calm down kemosabe
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The magic bullet does exist!!! :shaka: :stopjack:
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The magic bullet does exist!!! :shaka: :stopjack:
You can't help yourself .. have to hijack every thread you visit.
Must be a psychological insecurity thing with you ....
:stopjack: :stopjack:
:stopjack: :stopjack:
:stopjack: :stopjack:
:stopjack: :stopjack:
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You can't help yourself .. have to hijack every thread you visit.
Must be a psychological insecurity thing with you ....
:stopjack: :stopjack:
:stopjack: :stopjack:
:stopjack: :stopjack:
:stopjack: :stopjack:
oh no not again! Obviously your on here 24/7. Do you have a job? Well hey ill hook you up! :thumbsup: a buddy of mimes owns a restaurant, and there always in the market for salad boys. Would you be interested in being a full time salad boy, perhaps making it a career. Lmk thanks. Aloha :shaka:
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Nope. True story.
Ironic how something you joke about isn't very funny for others..... :(
You should think of this before you say some of the shit you say to others.....just sayin....funny to you.......but.....
To stay relevant to the thread, why would anyone fake this video and possibly lose an eye in the process???
Did anyone the grassy knoll in the first video????/
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Great analysis and inspection by you both, macsak and 230rn.
Unexpected things do happen in high velocity impacts and ejecta can come back opposite of impact. But the comparison to water or meteorite impacts doesn't explain the bullet's behavior in the video. The bullet (or at least a very substantial fragment) comes almost straight back, what, about 300-400 yards? I've seen many up close super slo-mo vids of various rounds, including 50 cals, hitting steel plates 90deg and obliqued, and the jacket obliterates with maybe 1000's of fragments deflecting at various angles, and with the lead core acting as a liquid like the water droplet or meteorite ejecta simulation, but none of these vids ever showed anything like what the bullet in the vid appears to do. IOW, thousands of fragments doing various things, but never a substantial fragment returning in the original direction of travel with a velocity necessary for traveling hundreds of yards in a second or two. I guess it can happen. Just hard to visualize the whole thing.
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Ricochets are real. This is one of the reasons that steel targets are not allowed closer at Kokohead. If you were to check out the roof of the rifle and silhouette range, you would see many bullets and fragments of bullets.
Always wear eye protection.
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Ricochets are real. This is one of the reasons that steel targets are not allowed closer at Kokohead. If you were to check out the roof of the rifle and silhouette range, you would see many bullets and fragments of bullets.
Always wear eye protection.
Agreed. Last time shooting out in the desert at basically piles of little rocks and I could hear the returns "pewing" and zooming back and off into who knows where. Sounded comical almost like being on Mars but then you realize them fragments are really cooking back at you. A non-ricochet is even scarier like mini guided missiles.
Weird Science.
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Yeah. Guess its all in the realm of possibility. I just wonder why all the handgun and rifle steel plate competitions I watch live and on TV don't result in any injuries. I saw one with micelik and it was a combo. Was .45 1911, 5.56 AR, and 12g 00 buck, all rapid fire at at most 10 yards I think. And nothin came back. Ever. Weird.
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Yeah. Guess its all in the realm of possibility. I just wonder why all the handgun and rifle steel plate competitions I watch live and on TV don't result in any injuries. I saw one with micelik and it was a combo. Was .45 1911, 5.56 AR, and 12g 00 buck, all rapid fire at at most 10 yards I think. And nothin came back. Ever. Weird.
Yeah. Guess its all in the realm of possibility. I just wonder why all the handgun and rifle steel plate competitions I watch live and on TV don't result in any injuries. I saw one with micelik and it was a combo. Was .45 1911, 5.56 AR, and 12g 00 buck, all rapid fire at at most 10 yards I think. And nothin came back. Ever. Weird.
Did you check what kind of ammo they were using?
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Did you check what kind of ammo they were using?
AhHAH! Obvious question. Didnt think of that. I'd imagine not FMJ. :D
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maybe cheap steel core bullets at hardened steel target? normal lead bullets just splatter when shot at a steel target.
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1 million fps Slow Motion video of bullet impacts made by Werner Mehl from Kurzzeit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg#)
Note the amount of junk coming back.
Note around 1:20 the glancing impact still resulted in a pretty circular ejecta pattern.
Note the bounceback of the steel plate, which, if the bullet has a hard core but doesn't penetrate, can throw that core right back out in the same direction.
Note in the ballistic gelatin and glass shots, the expansion wave and the glass cracks sometimes travel through the material faster than the missile is going. (Some are of airgun pellets.)
At 5:16 if you look carefully, you can see the shock wave going through the gelatin way ahead of the expansion wave.
At about 6:20 you can see the back of the bullet blow out before the bullet is 3/4 of the way into the target.
Lots of other information in visual form.
Repetitive, but not boring. The conclusion would be that yes, substantial hunks of junk (including maybe a bullet core or fragments of it) can come straight back toward the shooter.
Toward the end of the sequence you can watch bullets hitting actual silhouette targets.
Terry
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Watch these crazy ricochets! :D
tracers and stuff
http://youtu.be/cN35xpgX8uM (http://youtu.be/cN35xpgX8uM)
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Once again I offer my objection to this kind of long-range "testing" as being unsportsmanlike.
That is all.
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Once again I offer my objection to this kind of long-range "testing" as being unsportsmanlike.
That is all.
That first deer gets hit in the ass and goes from crippled to barely hobbling away. Must have suffered greatly and been terrified before it died. I'm not a tree hugger, but that's not cool. Very cruel.
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]
Note the amount of junk coming back.
Note around 1:20 the glancing impact still resulted in a pretty circular ejecta pattern.
Note the bounceback of the steel plate, which, if the bullet has a hard core but doesn't penetrate, can throw that core right back out in the same direction.
Note in the ballistic gelatin and glass shots, the expansion wave and the glass cracks sometimes travel through the material faster than the missile is going. (Some are of airgun pellets.)
At 5:16 if you look carefully, you can see the shock wave going through the gelatin way ahead of the expansion wave.
At about 6:20 you can see the back of the bullet blow out before the bullet is 3/4 of the way into the target.
Lots of other information in visual form.
Repetitive, but not boring. The conclusion would be that yes, substantial hunks of junk (including maybe a bullet core or fragments of it) can come straight back toward the shooter.
Toward the end of the sequence you can watch bullets hitting actual silhouette targets.
Terry
Incredible video. It shows all sorts of things can happen, but nothing that resembles the ricochet vid in question, which appears to have a complete bullet if not a substantial fragment coming back, essentially 180', almost perfectly in line with the rifle bore. Not saying it can't happen. Possible, just more like a one-in-a-million shot. Thanks.
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http://youtu.be/l5PruVwTzuw (http://youtu.be/l5PruVwTzuw)
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Yipes :0
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That first deer gets hit in the ass and goes from crippled to barely hobbling away. Must have suffered greatly and been terrified before it died. I'm not a tree hugger, but that's not cool. Very cruel.
What a d*ck! But I think the vid is real.
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This thread has got me freaked out a bit.
Please tell me why this won't ever happen at Kokohead or our only indoor range on Oahu?
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Watch these crazy ricochets! :D
tracers and stuff
http://youtu.be/cN35xpgX8uM (http://youtu.be/cN35xpgX8uM)
Sheesh... This is one of those things that give hunters a bad name.
1. The guy should get more practice at the range, not on live animals.
2. Poor backstop - don't shoot when the backstop is water or a hard surface due to the unpredictable nature of ricochet.
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Check the woodchuck "Shoot or Don't Shoot?" video by Alan Madison. I added in a few more for fun.
Woodchuck Hunting
Shoot Don't Shoot: Woodchuck Hunting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krK-J5hRyTk#ws)
Whitetail Deer Hunting
Shoot Don't Shoot: Whitetail Deer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llMzOndWTgg#ws)
Rabbit Hunting
Shoot Don't Shoot: Rabbit Hunting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56FVH4fbjxY#ws)
Pheasant Hunting
Shoot Don't Shoot: Pheasant Hunting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXANcYHLhWM#ws)
Mule Deer Hunting
Shoot Don't Shoot: Mule Deer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO9hLaGeoSk#ws)
Antelope Hunting
Shoot Don't Shoot: Antelope (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRIzbHVBGxs#ws)
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Check the woodchuck "Shoot or Don't Shoot?" video by Alan Madison. I added in a few more for fun.
Those videos take me back to the Hunters Ed class.
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Yes that's where I saw it. Hunters ed class has lots of good stuff!
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This thread has got me freaked out a bit.
Please tell me why this won't ever happen at Kokohead or our only indoor range on Oahu?
that was why I originally posted this forum. I was wondering why, ifthat video was real, people never get hit with ricochets when firing still play competitions. I've been at countless and the silhouette heavy steel is not angled to deflect away from the shooter. Not is any steel during those comps, for that matter.
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I guess you just have to "win the lottery" on these.
But I have had "blast" coming back at me at the indoor range at Ward.
I never thought too much about it, but I remember feeling it with a guy two lanes down, shooting his carbine (40SW carbine).
Now that I think about it, I guess all that stuff was the shrapnel from his ammo, although of course it hit paper and not steel. Maybe the stuff came back from the backstop.
And I guess we also breathe in the toxic lead clouds....