2aHawaii
General Topics => Off Topic => Topic started by: Q on January 28, 2015, 06:40:33 PM
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How would they get their government freebies if they renounce? heh.......
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So did those guys driving around Maui with the yellow license plates and the ones on Kauai driving around with the black license plates (not sure I ever seen any on Oahu or the Big Island) all of which claiming the sovereignty and/or lineage; did all of them renounce their US Citizenship?
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Nope.
I almost got into a serious confrontation because a group of them (that had a yellow license plate from the nation of atooi) parked their shitty SUV in the handicap stall without a placard, and made a guy with double crutches walk all the way across the parking lot through giant water puddles.
When asked where their placard was, they stated they don't follow American law, so they park where they want.
Funny. Go to any other country and tell them there, "I'm not from here, so I don't have to follow your laws if I don't want to." See how long that crap lasts!
Hawaii is still a US state. Even if you feel you're part of some non-existent fairytale kingdom, you're still bound by the laws of the land unless you have diplomatic immunity. I'm pretty sure the fairytale kingdom doesn't issue those credentials! :rofl:
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Nope.
I almost got into a serious confrontation because a group of them (that had a yellow license plate from the nation of atooi) parked their shitty SUV in the handicap stall without a placard, and made a guy with double crutches walk all the way across the parking lot through giant water puddles.
When asked where their placard was, they stated they don't follow American law, so they park where they want.
lazy ass cowards.
Do that in N Korea and they strap a 60mm mortar to ya...
so in that case if their car/home gets burglarized, stolen who they gonna call?
since they don't recognize our laws deny them use of our infrastructure and services...Im a tax payer, a vet and a US law-abiding citizen - its a slap in our faces
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Technically if you are intent on doing your part to bankrupt the system it costs the state more to keep you locked up than it does to cut benefit checks, but in prison the money goes to some corporate dick to fuel up his private jet when we all know it would be better spent on your beer fund.
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Technically if you are intent on doing your part to bankrupt the system it costs the state more to keep you locked up than it does to cut benefit checks, but in prison the money goes to some corporate dick to fuel up his private jet when we all know it would be better spent on your beer fund.
(http://i.imgur.com/Z4Apthb.jpg)
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Technically if you are intent on doing your part to bankrupt the system it costs the state more to keep you locked up than it does to cut benefit checks, but in prison the money goes to some corporate dick to fuel up his private jet when we all know it would be better spent on your beer fund.
I dont think you passed any type of background check.
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Nope.
I almost got into a serious confrontation because a group of them (that had a yellow license plate from the nation of atooi) parked their shitty SUV in the handicap stall without a placard, and made a guy with double crutches walk all the way across the parking lot through giant water puddles.
When asked where their placard was, they stated they don't follow American law, so they park where they want.
If you don't mind me asking, was it a light colored Expedition with a very heavy set individual?
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My old neighbor in Waianae has PK of Atooi plates on his truck. Funny how PKA's website is a .com
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What the hell are you talking about?
Resistance through non-violent means is confusing to people who are obsessed with domination and violence, which is why it has the potential to work so well. When all you have in your toolbox is a hammer everything looks like a nail.
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Resistance through non-violent means is confusing to people who are obsessed with domination and violence, which is why it has the potential to work so well. When all you have in your toolbox is a hammer everything looks like a nail.
Non-violent resistance is great if you don't mind being oppressed for a few centuries before anything positive happens. Not to mention, by then, you'll be lucky if the bloodline hasn't been diluted so much, there won't be anyone with enough Hawaiian blood to lay claim to any "throne" or leadership role.
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Non-violent resistance is great if you don't mind being oppressed for a few centuries before anything positive happens. Not to mention, by then, you'll be lucky if the bloodline hasn't been diluted so much, there won't be anyone with enough Hawaiian blood to lay claim to any "throne" or leadership role.
It's true that it might not work, but when the choices the dominant culture gives are either unconditional surrender or annihilation then sometimes it's best to pick option 3. You may not see the promised land but if your great great grandkids do then it will be worth it.
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It's true that it might not work, but when the choices the dominant culture gives are either unconditional surrender or annihilation then sometimes it's best to pick option 3. You may not see the promised land but if your great great grandkids do then it will be worth it.
You might want to start thinking the same way the nation of Israel chose, which helped them survive through today.
A "nation" is not technically a piece of land. It's a people with the same language, customs, culture, and societal norms.
Even after the Jews of Israel were freed from captivity in Egypt, they had no place to settle. So they became nomads. Where they lived was not as important as how they lived, and who they lived among.
Geopolitical boundaries change quite often, but the bonds that tie a nation together are much stronger and last longer.
Therefore, instead of passively remaining in Hawaii, hoping one day someone will pity the Hawaiians enough to give them the keys to the kingdom again, perhaps it would be smarter to find another location to live in peace, preserve your culture, and wait for a time when you, too, can return to the "promised land" of your people
For some reason, Las Vegas comes to mind ... :P
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Don't FEED the Trolls. :geekdanc: :geekdanc: :geekdanc:
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It's true that it might not work, but when the choices the dominant culture gives are either unconditional surrender or annihilation then sometimes it's best to pick option 3. You may not see the promised land but if your great great grandkids do then it will be worth it.
Did you eat paint chips when you were young?
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Don't FEED the Trolls. :geekdanc: :geekdanc: :geekdanc:
That's no fun! :rofl: :wacko:
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It may go without saying, but I'm going to say it anyway. There are Hawaiians that have died for this country, are vets, and active duty. I don't speak for anyone but myself, but not every Hawaiian agrees with the outspoken Sovereign groups. Although I do understand where the anger comes from (example: Hawaiians are still getting ripped off, even nowadays with the land they currently own due to "development") but, IMO there are better ways to go about fighting for change. Whatever that change may be. IMO being disrespectful doesn't do anything but make us look uneducated, insincere, rowdy, and in some instances racist. Respect goes both ways.
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It may go without saying, but I'm going to say it anyway. There are Hawaiians that have died for this country, are vets, and active duty. I don't speak for anyone but myself, but not every Hawaiian agrees with the outspoken Sovereign groups. Although I do understand where the anger comes from (example: Hawaiians are still getting ripped off, even nowadays with the land they currently own due to "development") but, IMO there are better ways to go about fighting for change. Whatever that change may be. IMO being disrespectful doesn't do anything but make us look uneducated, insincere, rowdy, and in some instances racist. Respect goes both ways.
:thumbsup: +1
It is true that Hawaiians as a culture are a proud people. Most Hawaiians are hard working, honorable people.
The sad part, in my opinion is that the "hate" that the Hawaian people feel for the Haole and the government is "taught" to them. This same hate holds back the people from progressing.
The Hawaiians that are the most successful are, in my opinion, the ones that set aside the "hate" that has been poured into them and better themselves. Some of my family (Hawaiians) are doctors, lawyers, judges, professionals, making a very good living and providing for their families.
This is the best way to overcome any concern about what was taken from "you".
Work hard and buy it back.
If you want things to change around you, change them.
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Aloha e KK,
"The sad part, in my opinion is that the "hate" that the Hawaian people feel for the Haole and the government is "taught" to them. This same hate holds back the people from progressing.
The Hawaiians that are the most successful are, in my opinion, the ones that set aside the "hate" that has been poured into them and better themselves. Some of my family (Hawaiians) are doctors, lawyers, judges, professionals, making a very good living and providing for their families."
I agree with you 100%.
Pure mindless hate will not allow anyone from focusing on what they need to do to malama themselves and/or their family. I, too, come from a background of a family who were able to make a comfortable living in Hawaii. However, I will only state that those Kanaka Maoli who were/are able to do so are the outliers, not the norm. The majority of Kanaka Maoli are not so fortunate. I am not talking about those who abuse and game the welfare system. I am talking about those Kanaka Maoli who were not given the chance to attend Kamehameha School or some private school or fortunate enough to be born or married into money, or those who constantly endeavor to acquire a living wage job(s).
"If you want things to change around you, change them."
I could not have said it better.
That is why it is the unspoken kuleana for those Kanaka Maoli who have attained a level of material success to do whatever is possible educationally, economically, financially, or politically to redress the social-economic disparity that sent our people, excluding the ali'i and their descendants, down the capitalist ladder after the illegal overthrow of our Hawaiian Nation.
Kuleana
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Aloha e KK,
"The sad part, in my opinion is that the "hate" that the Hawaian people feel for the Haole and the government is "taught" to them. This same hate holds back the people from progressing.
The Hawaiians that are the most successful are, in my opinion, the ones that set aside the "hate" that has been poured into them and better themselves. Some of my family (Hawaiians) are doctors, lawyers, judges, professionals, making a very good living and providing for their families."
I agree with you 100%.
Pure mindless hate will not allow anyone from focusing on what they need to do to malama themselves and/or their family. I, too, come from a background of a family who were able to make a comfortable living in Hawaii. However, I will only state that those Kanaka Maoli who were/are able to do so are the outliers, not the norm. The majority of Kanaka Maoli are not so fortunate. I am not talking about those who abuse and game the welfare system. I am talking about those Kanaka Maoli who were not given the chance to attend Kamehameha School or some private school or fortunate enough to be born or married into money, or those who constantly endeavor to acquire a living wage job(s).
"If you want things to change around you, change them."
I could not have said it better.
That is why it is the unspoken kuleana for those Kanaka Maoli who have attained a level of material success to do whatever is possible educationally, economically, financially, or politically to redress the social-economic disparity that sent our people, excluding the ali'i and their descendants, down the capitalist ladder after the illegal overthrow of our Hawaiian Nation.
Kuleana
In other words, you yearn for that same success but are struggling to attain them. That's the American way. Somehow we lost it from generation to generation. Our current mindset is that it is given to them by the govt. Don't blame anyone else except the person in the mirror for "inequalities". Last I checked no one of color was riding in the back of a bus. Hawaiians are free to attend college, open a business, protest like any other American; but as you can see in the recent Army listening sessions, the Hawaiians that do protest over an "illegal occupation" were outnumbered by the majority of Americans.
So what is this medium you are addressing us in again...oh yeah it is the internet. A product of capitalist exploitation. Isn't it great?
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Aloha Q,
"- The US didn't overthrow the Hawaiian Kingdom. A foreign ambassador of the United States assisted citizens of Hawaii in the overthrow, whom would later form the republic of Hawaii. Whether pro-sovereignty people like it or not, those responsible for the overthrow were Hawaiian citizens."
That is partially correct. Yes, a number of traitors of the Hawaiian Kingdom Government were directly responsible for the illegal overthrow. However, the Cleveland Administration conducted their own investigation of the events leading to the overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom and found that the interference of the US Ambassador and illegal use of US Naval Personnel were material in the overthrow and ordered the restoration of Hawaiian Kingdom, as stated in the President Cleveland's Restoration Agreement signed by Queen Liliʻuokalani in 1894.
"- The US didn't conquer Hawaii."
Semantics, but I concede that the US Government did not militarily conquer Hawaii.
"- The US doesn't treat Hawaiians like second class citizens"
Debatable. For example, Olelo Hawaii is the second official language of the local state government, yet it is not primarily used or exist on any version of local state documents. In Québec, Canada, French is an official language and is used on all of its official documents.
"- The US isn't economically burdening the Hawaiian people"
Semantics and debatable. However, the local government still drags its feet in giving so-called ceded lands to Kanaka Maoli.
"- The US isn't the one building hotels and keeping Hawaii based on a tourism economy. Who owns most, if not all of the hotel properties in Waikiki? Oh, thats right...it must be the evil white haole man"
No, the white haole man has no more money. However, what the white haole white men in-charge are doing is allowing the sale of the real estate to other foreigners that have money and assessing them property and tourism fees and taxes to collect money that way.
"I don't see how there is anything to be mad about. Under the kingdom, most Hawaiians that were not politically or royally connected had no access to the things we have today, and had to settle for mediocre jobs and second hand ways of life."
100% ACCURATE
"All these pro-sovereignty idiots do is cry about a way of life they never had to live in, yet shit on the hand the gives them their liberties, provided them with their education, and continues to allow them to live a developed, modernized lifestyle that they are not so quick to renounce."
Not all people who believe in the restoration of the Hawaiian Nation want to return to a 19th century or earlier lifestyle for that matter, and not all believe the key in restoring what was overthrown lies with disrespectful acts or violence. Those people really need to reeducate themselves and choose a more educated approach to attain those economic or political goals they seek.
"Here is a perfect example:
Tonga is a 'free nation', and has never been conquered or overthrown, and is not being 'occupied' by a foreign nation. Look up the economics, development and social opportunities in Tonga, and let me know if you think it's superior to a US lifestyle."
Valid example. Definitely not a place I would want to live. However, I would not mind the economic success of other island nations or city states such as Singapore, Hong Kong, or Taiwan.
Kuleana
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HK, Taiwan, Singapore dont grow hemp
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Aloha Ren,
"Don't blame anyone else except the person in the mirror for "inequalities"."
Yes and no.
Yes, every individual needs to do the best they can to better their situation and be accountable. However, those who are victims of discrimination and/or racism should also work collectively towards achieving social justice.
"Last I checked no one of color was riding in the back of a bus."
What are you talking about? There are always dark people sitting in the back of our city buses. Everybody living in Hawaii has a tan right?
"Hawaiians are free to attend college, open a business, protest like any other American; but as you can see in the recent Army listening sessions, the Hawaiians that do protest over an "illegal occupation" were outnumbered by the majority of Americans."
This is not anyway at all surprising.
How many people in those meetings, including those protesting illegal occupation, have taken the time to research the history of the illegal overthrow of Hawaii? How many people, including so-called Kanaka Maoli activists, have taken the time to realize that there is evidence that the US Government has already legally agreed to do the right thing and restore the Hawaiian Kingdom Government, albeit, not enforcing its agreement to the descendants of the Hawaiian Nation for the last 123 years?
"So what is this medium you are addressing us in again...oh yeah it is the internet. A product of capitalist exploitation. Isn't it great?"
I don't understand your point. Just like those living in China, Russia, and everyone else on this World, I love the use of the Internet.
Kuleana
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Aloha Ren,
"HK, Taiwan, Singapore dont grow hemp"
They don't really need to. HK and Taiwan traffic and make enough money on the drug trade already. In Singapore, they make enough money on other activities.
Kuleana
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While it's not the same as getting crowned king, working within the system has led to a Native Hawaiian becoming Mayor of Hawaii Island.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Kenoi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Kenoi)
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Regardless of whether or not u believe in the US you sure enjoy the rights of an American, Kuleana, as you own firearms. Thats a right given to u by the USA.
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Aloha CC,
"While it's not the same as getting crowned king, working within the system has led to a Native Hawaiian becoming Mayor of Hawaii Island."
While I admire what Billy Kenoi has accomplished; only the Kanaka Maoli living on the Big Island have the right to comment on his contributions to their socio-economic progress.
Kuleana
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Aloha Ren,
"Regardless of whether or not u believe in the US you sure enjoy the rights of an American, Kuleana, as you own firearms. Thats a right given to u by the USA."
Never said the US Constitution could not be a model for all nations.
Kuleana
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Kuleana, why wont you renounce your USA citizenship?
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Aloha CC,
"While it's not the same as getting crowned king, working within the system has led to a Native Hawaiian becoming Mayor of Hawaii Island."
While I admire what Billy Kenoi has accomplished; only the Kanaka Maoli living on the Big Island have the right to comment on his contributions to their socio-economic progress.
Kuleana
Kuleana,
Billy is EVERYBODY'S Mayor. Maybe you just need to get over stuff that happened centuries ago.
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I don't agree with the fact that there is a reason to be angry.
- The US didn't overthrow the Hawaiian Kingdom. A foreign ambassador of the United States assisted citizens of Hawaii in the overthrow, whom would later form the republic of Hawaii. Whether pro-sovereignty people like it or not, those responsible for the overthrow were Hawaiian citizens.
- The US didn't conquer Hawaii.
- The US doesn't treat Hawaiians like second class citizens
- The US isn't economically burdening the Hawaiian people
- The US isn't the one building hotels and keeping Hawaii based on a tourism economy. Who owns most, if not all of the hotel properties in Waikiki? Oh, thats right...it must be the evil white haole man.
I don't see how there is anything to be mad about. Under the kingdom, most Hawaiians that were not politically or royally connected had no access to the things we have today, and had to settle for mediocre jobs and second hand ways of life. All these pro-sovereignty idiots do is cry about a way of life they never had to live in, yet shit on the hand the gives them their liberties, provided them with their education, and continues to allow them to live a developed, modernized lifestyle that they are not so quick to renounce.
Here is a perfect example:
Tonga is a 'free nation', and has never been conquered or overthrown, and is not being 'occupied' by a foreign nation. Look up the economics, development and social opportunities in Tonga, and let me know if you think it's superior to a US lifestyle.
I have agree with majority of your statements, and for this have been criticized by other Hawaiians (not that I care all that much about it). When I said that I understand the reason for the anger, I am not referring to the overthrow, but other situations. I like others enjoy the rights and opportunities that America has provided and hard work will take you far, laziness and looking for handouts have never appealed to me.
Disclosure: This is just one of the many stories that have been told to me. I have not personally looked into validating the claims, but I have heard enough of them to believe that some of these have some truth to them, although I do not know the other side of the story. Feel free to make you own assumptions, as I have.
Here is a situation as an example: There is a proposal to build on land that you currently own (from what I recall it is ceded land). They want to build a dump on your land and will pay you fair market value. Fair market value at the time that the land was given, not now or at the time of development.
I am not familiar with how these things work or how it is imposed (for all I know, this is just the way it is), but for face value I think I would be pissed if I was in that situation.
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Aloha Q & Ren,
"Ren : Kuleana, why wont you renounce your USA citizenship?
EXACTLY WHAT I WANT TO KNOW"
Here is my answer.
When China was occupied by the Mongols, what did all the Chinese do? The Chinese became legal unwilling subjects of the Mongol Empire and I am sure the Mongols did not care if they left China forever, but what happened? THEY DID NOT ALL RENOUNCE THEIR CITIZENSHIP AND LEAVE; THEY KEPT THEIR LEGAL STATUS FOR CONVENIENCE AND JUST WAITED FOR THEIR TIME TO THROW THE MONGOLS OUT. And why did they do it this way? BECAUSE CHINA WAS THEIR HOME!
The same can be said for the Spanish colonization of the Philippines and India under the British Empire. Did all the Filipinos renounce their status as subjects of Spain or the Indian people renounce their British legal status? NO, THEY DID NOT. What did they do then? They both did as the Chinese did and kept their cause for liberalization alive till the time came when they could reclaim their homeland.
I am sure many in India asked Gandhi to renounce his British citizenship during his anti-British campaign and, correct me if I am wrong, but he never did. If true, would anyone question his decision? If Gandhi hated the British occupation so much, why did he not just pick-up and leave? BECAUSE INDIA WAS HIS HOME!
I AM A KANAKA MAOLI AND HAWAII WILL ALWAYS BE MY HOME!
Kuleana
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Aloha CrazyC,
"Maybe you just need to get over stuff that happened centuries ago."
After nearly 400 years of Spanish colonization, did Jose Rizal the father of the modern day Republic of the Philippines or Gandhi, after 190 years of British rule, or the current citizens of Israel, after the disappearance of Judea for over a thousand years just get over stuff that happened centuries ago?
Kuleana
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Hawaiians that are against America dont renounce their citizen ship cuz it would mean they would need to leave their island home.
The better question is... why wont "visitors" (like Q) that aren't happy with Hawaii's Anti-American residents leave the islands. Just STFU and leave.
And if you not happy with Hawaii's 2A laws and the process to change them, stop whining like a little girl and do everyone a favor and beat it. You are free to go, please.
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Aloha Q & Ren,
"Ren : Kuleana, why wont you renounce your USA citizenship?
EXACTLY WHAT I WANT TO KNOW"
Here is my answer.
When China was occupied by the Mongols, what did all the Chinese do? The Chinese became legal unwilling subjects of the Mongol Empire and I am sure the Mongols did not care if they left China forever, but what happened? THEY DID NOT ALL RENOUNCE THEIR CITIZENSHIP AND LEAVE; THEY KEPT THEIR LEGAL STATUS FOR CONVENIENCE AND JUST WAITED FOR THEIR TIME TO THROW THE MONGOLS OUT. And why did they do it this way? BECAUSE CHINA WAS THEIR HOME!
The same can be said for the Spanish colonization of the Philippines and India under the British Empire. Did all the Filipinos renounce their status as subjects of Spain or the Indian people renounce their British legal status? NO, THEY DID NOT. What did they do then? They both did as the Chinese did and kept their cause for liberalization alive till the time came when they could reclaim their homeland.
I am sure many in India asked Gandhi to renounce his British citizenship during his anti-British campaign and, correct me if I am wrong, but he never did. If true, would anyone question his decision? If Gandhi hated the British occupation so much, why did he not just pick-up and leave? BECAUSE INDIA WAS HIS HOME!
I AM A KANAKA MAOLI AND HAWAII WILL ALWAYS BE MY HOME!
Kuleana
So you're on a pro-firearms/enthusiast forum and you're waiting for an opportunity to kick the US govt. out of Hawaii but you don't want to renounce your UNITED STATES citizenship. There are millions who would like to have it - so for the sake of the world give it up. Don't know what's the problem. You're a native Hawaiian and don't recognize this current Hawaii govt. as legit. Shred it. Take a pic and post it here.
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Aloha Ren,
"So you're on a pro-firearms/enthusiast forum and you're waiting for an opportunity to kick the US govt. out of Hawaii..."
Please do not put words in my mouth.
If you had the courtesy of reading my previous posts to you, I and many other people are waiting for the US Government to restore the Hawaiian Kingdom Government as prescribed by the Restoration Agreement signed by President Cleveland in 1894.
I never called for any act of violence, a movement to forcibly overthrow the US Government, or in your words, kick the govt. out of Hawaii.
Kuleana
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(http://www.knutsonlivebait.com/images/crickets.jpg)
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Aloha Ren,
If you had the courtesy of reading my previous posts to you, I and many other people are waiting for the US Government to restore the Hawaiian Kingdom Government as prescribed by the Restoration Agreement signed by President Cleveland in 1894
Kuleana
damn that's a long time awaiting
that's 121 years or 44165 days or 1,059,960 hours or 63,597,600 minutes
meanwhile here's moar
Live Crickets 60min "Natural Sound" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9c_KttvQPU#ws)
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Aloha Q,
"Guess things aren't as bad as you say if you are just sitting around, waiting for the 'oppressing government' to give you what you think is rightly yours."
What I think is not important.
It is the rule of law and strict adherence to that which is written is what is important. Even though it has been nearly 122 years since the Restoration Agreement has been signed, those who still believe in the rule of law need to remain patient and vigilant. This is no different than everyone on this forum who continues to fight for the 2nd Amendment included in a 227 years old document called the US Constitution. While elements of society and parts of the US Government itself are making excuses to remove and/or create a restrictive situation that make gun ownership difficult, that has not affected those on this 2a forum from keeping the spirit of the 2a alive and well.
Kuleana
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Hey bubba, glad to see you crawled out from under your rock after all this time! :wave:
Oh, and I'm not a visitor. Maybe if you would like to meet at bench 80 to discuss this face to face, you can learn it first hand. Be sure to bring an ice pack. :thumbsup:
hi Q :shaka: wish I could say it was good to see you still living. Keep chirping ... Hahaha Bench 80 I wouldn't waste my energy on a red neck throwaway piece of shit.
U not a visitor? Well u not born and raised here, u definitely not local, and after watching how you like to run your big mouth, I'm sure it wont be long til shit catches up to you, one way or another. so carry on, I'll save my spit for your grave.
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Aloha Q,
"Guess things aren't as bad as you say if you are just sitting around, waiting for the 'oppressing government' to give you what you think is rightly yours."
What I think is not important.
It is the rule of law and strict adherence to that which is written is what is important. Even though it has been nearly 122 years since the Restoration Agreement has been signed, those who still believe in the rule of law need to remain patient and vigilant. This is no different than everyone on this forum who continues to fight for the 2nd Amendment included in a 227 years old document called the US Constitution. While elements of society and parts of the US Government itself are making excuses to remove and/or create a restrictive situation that make gun ownership difficult, that has not affected those on this 2a forum from keeping the spirit of the 2a alive and well.
Kuleana
Do you even know how international law works? Think Nuremberg Trials in Nazi Germany. Think Trial of Saddam Hussein.
The US dropped 2 nukes on a sovereign nation. If we didn't get dinged in the world court for that, who on this Earth do you think will EVER bring the USA for failing to follow a 100+ year old restoration agreement?
The "rule of law and strict adherence to it?" Without an international body willing to levy charges, and a judicial body willing to hear the evidence, and without an enforcement body willing to carry out whatever sentence, sanctions, shunning, or what have you to coerce compliance, you can forget any kind of "rule of law" scenario coming to kick the US out of Hawaii.
What part of "admission day" did you not get taught in school? Learn from the civil war. Once you are in the "family", there is no leaving the "family!" Secession has been quashed, and if memory serves, Texas is the only state in the US which may actually have a legal footing if they ever decide to do it.
I think it goes, Texas was a sovereign state before negotiating annexation. Hawaii, on the other hand, became a territory first. Being a territory negates the sovereignty of the Hawaiian Kingdom prior to annexation, so the state doesn't have the legal right to secede.
Now, if someone, someway, somehow finds a way to prove Hawaii becoming a territory was illegal, invalid, or never happened, then maybe the Hawaiian Sovereignty movement would have a leg to stand (and run away) on.
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Did you forget to log out of your other account?
:rofl: :popcorn: :rofl: :popcorn: :rofl: :popcorn: :rofl: :popcorn: :rofl: :popcorn: :rofl: :popcorn:
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my wife's phone But no matter. She hate u too. Maggot.
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Bubba & Q, both of you guys should mud wrestle in A'ala park with Kuleana as a tag team partner.
:rofl:
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Bubba & Q, both of you guys should mud wrestle in A'ala park with Kuleana as a tag team partner.
:rofl:
lol stop fantasizing.
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lol stop fantasizing.
If it was a fantasy, it would be Speedtek in a Speedo as a tag team partner. :D
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Interesting....so your wife welds?
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/2a/2afec647d2e645195ca35cc29817821e818f71b52e4fc608b6155d8f185e016e.jpg)
lol actually yes she does. She has been an iron worker for over 15 years... Putz. :D and she shoots too..
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Interesting...please tell me more about how this is your wife's account?
Hahaha lemme guess, now u wanna meet US at bench 80? Bitch like you would actually pick a fight with a woman. now it's obvious I have a ppq and my wife has an m&p, we also have ARs n now CZs. And we both have 2a accounts. Anything else you wanna know detective maggot?
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:wave:
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Sharing, it's what happens when you're married.
a family that shoots together stays together.
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LOL, interesting turn of events...
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OK take it easy now. We are all grownups here, hopefully. No need to pick fights, because of a difference in opinion. :stopjack: :stopjack: :stopjack:
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Damn, logon to 2A this morning and thought it was the Twilight Zone........................... :wtf:
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I love soap operas ! :crazy:
And you're both actually cool guys so this is kinda odd, though I musta missed the first couple of episodes so I don't know the back story.
Sorry heavies, not trying to instigate anything.
:stopjack:
I don't know but I love my US citizenship !
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(http://forwallpapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Keep-Calm-and-Stay-American-Flag-Wallpaper.jpg)
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This could go into the "random video" thread but I think the content is appropriate for this discussion. Mods, please move if you feel it is necessary.
http://youtu.be/aDG_Wj0KtIs (http://youtu.be/aDG_Wj0KtIs)
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So can anyone throw down the "illegal occupation" card? and not get arrested?
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The only reason this happens is because Hawaii actually has some of the most relaxed and well mannered police officers in the nation.
If these guys would have tried this with cops that had the mentality of departments like LAPD and NYPD, they would be on the ground and beaten within an inch of their life.
And once again, this is only allowed to happen in the first place because they live in America and have an American citizenship. Any other place in the world, including Europe, would had a completely different turn of events.
Imagine doing that in Russia.
look at Ukraine
(http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/headline/public/2014/02/19/ukraine-2-19-1.jpg?itok=UWGcHhP9)
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Posting a picture of a CIA-sponsored coup that put a bunch of Nazis in power as an example of why we should be grateful for American Freedom? The Irony Meeter just went off the chart...
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Posting a picture of a CIA-sponsored coup that put a bunch of Nazis in power as an example of why we should be grateful for American Freedom? The Irony Meeter just went off the chart...
Don't feed the troll.......
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Being that I have 4 penpals from Ukraine who tell me everything is fine there, I highly doubt you are right.
And no, they are not Nazi supporters or believe that the CIA/US is attempting to somehow overthrow their country. In fact, many wish to return to the Russian Federation because they feel Russia is becoming similar to America.
I don't think there would be American boots already on the ground if everything was fine. Probably the same NGO-sponsored Color Revolution people are still in charge of the media there and putting out that message, but other sources are saying the inexperienced force-conscripted Ukraine troops are being led to wholesale slaughter against the 'separatists' and Poroshenko's advisers are too scared to tell him how bad things are.
http://youtu.be/nLotIm_JZ6E (http://youtu.be/nLotIm_JZ6E)
Seeing as how the last few 'nation building' experiments the State Department has undertaken have gone horribly wrong, I'm inclined to believe the worst.
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Please don't feed the troll!!!
He will keep coming back and will try and engage some well meaning member into an insane and inane argument/discussion.
He is doing this to satisfy some perverse pleasure he gets from stirring up other peoples emotions. Quit responding to his comments and he will eventually stop when he no longer has an audience for his drivel.
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Please don't feed the troll!!!
He will keep coming back and will try and engage some well meaning member into an insane and inane argument/discussion.
He is doing this to satisfy some perverse pleasure he gets from stirring up other peoples emotions. Quit responding to his comments and he will eventually stop when he no longer has an audience for his drivel.
"Otherising is the dangerous act of turning someone into the enemy just because he or she looks different, prays different, speaks different, or thinks different. Some of history's most tragic events—wars, genocides, terrorist acts—began with ordinary people demonizing other ordinary people."
http://www.oprah.com/spirit/How-to-Talk-to-People-You-Dont-Agree-With (http://www.oprah.com/spirit/How-to-Talk-to-People-You-Dont-Agree-With)
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"Otherising is the dangerous act of turning someone into the enemy just because he or she looks different, prays different, speaks different, or thinks different. Some of history's most tragic events—wars, genocides, terrorist acts—began with ordinary people demonizing other ordinary people."
http://www.oprah.com/spirit/How-to-Talk-to-People-You-Dont-Agree-With (http://www.oprah.com/spirit/How-to-Talk-to-People-You-Dont-Agree-With)
Oprah ? Lol! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
(http://snd1.splashpress1.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/phil-robertson.jpg)
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"Otherising is the dangerous act of turning someone into the enemy just because he or she looks different, prays different, speaks different, or thinks different. Some of history's most tragic events—wars, genocides, terrorist acts—began with ordinary people demonizing other ordinary people."
http://www.oprah.com/spirit/How-to-Talk-to-People-You-Dont-Agree-With (http://www.oprah.com/spirit/How-to-Talk-to-People-You-Dont-Agree-With)
Do you even understand the irony of your post above? You just prove my point over and over again! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Stay on topic TROLL.
:stopjack:
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Oprah ? Lol! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
(http://snd1.splashpress1.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/phil-robertson.jpg)
Oprah didn't write it, and I figured it was less condescending than this:
http://kidsactivitiesblog.com/17544/10-tips-help-children-get-along (http://kidsactivitiesblog.com/17544/10-tips-help-children-get-along)
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We wouldn't be on a tangent if people played nice and stopped with the personal attacks. If someone's world view is so shaky that it can't stand up to a little bit of scrutiny then it probably wasn't very sound to begin with.
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We wouldn't be on a tangent if people played nice and stopped with the personal attacks. If someone's world view is so shaky that it can't stand up to a little bit of scrutiny then it probably wasn't very sound to begin with.
Why don't you change your name to Girl,Interrupted.
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Aaaaaaand we're still on a tangent....
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(http://i.imgur.com/d8dglsx.jpg)
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Anyone else want to get back to topic, or did this just turn into the ad-hominem debate team?
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Ok then allow me.
I find it very interesting that there are some pro-sovereignty people in the 2a community and I'm really interested to hear what the plan is if it actually happens one day. I met one of those Atooi marshals a few years back and he seemed like a nice enough guy, but he was a little vague on the details. Of course circumstances could widely vary, but are we talking about a kingdom? A republic? Loose association of islands with mutual aid agreements?
The legal case is very convincing, but winning a lawsuit and jumpstarting a nation are two different beasts entirely.
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Ok then allow me.
I find it very interesting that there are some pro-sovereignty people in the 2a community and I'm really interested to hear what the plan is if it actually happens one day. I met one of those Atooi marshals a few years back and he seemed like a nice enough guy, but he was a little vague on the details. Of course circumstances could widely vary, but are we talking about a kingdom? A republic? Loose association of islands with mutual aid agreements?
The legal case is very convincing, but winning a lawsuit and jumpstarting a nation are two different beasts entirely.
IMO, Hawaii's gun control pattern was to keep the natives and plantation workers in check... I don't see how all pro sovereignty are not pro gun freedom, unless it is their intention to keep its citizens unarmed, and under heel, if Hawaiian nation re-instatement ever happens... ???
Also to add....Hawaii is a strange case that never valued personal freedom, either as a kingdom or as a state in the United states, also IMHO. It's like Hawaii is stuck in the old Demorat infested south...
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This quote always intrigued me, as well as the account of King Tupou who was shocked to see beggars in Australia and New Zealand. Not to put too bright a shine on the concept of Royalty, but it seems these guys inspired a lot of confidence in their people by actually taking care of them. Although sometimes that meant killing off some enemies to keep everyone in line.
Ka Momi - by King David Kalâkaua
I have traveled over many lands and distant seas
To India afar and China renowned
I have touched the shores of Africa
And boundaries of Europe
And have met the great ones of all lands
As I stood at the side of heads of governments
Next to leaders proud of their rule,
Witnessing their authority over their own
I realized how small and weak is the power I hold
My throne is established on a heap of lava
They rule where millions obey their commands
Only a few thousands can I count under my care
One thought came to me of which I may boast
Of all beauties
Locked within these shores
One is a jewel more precious than any owned by
My fellow monarchs
I have nothing in my Kingdom to dread
I mingle with my people without fear
And in safety, I require no bodyguards
My gift is a pearl of great price given
To me from above
The loyalty of my people
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Aloha Heavies,
"IMO, Hawaii's gun control pattern was to keep the natives and plantation workers in check... I don't see how all pro sovereignty are not pro gun freedom, unless it is their intention to keep its citizens unarmed, and under heel, if Hawaiian nation re-instatement ever happens... ???"
Whether common Native Hawaiians actually had guns during the Hawaiian Kingdom is uncertain. However, it is with no doubt many non-Hawaiian citizens of the Hawaiian Kingdom were allowed to own their own firearms. Let us not forget that it was Thurston and his insurrectionists that used their own firearms during the illegal overthrow of the Kingdom government.
"Also to add....Hawaii is a strange case that never valued personal freedom, either as a kingdom or as a state in the United states, also IMHO. It's like Hawaii is stuck in the old Demorat infested south..."
I can't speak for the citizens of the Hawaiian Kingdom or those who lived in Hawaii, thereafter, but as far as during the Hawaiian Kingdom was concerned, all citizens shared the same basic human rights as those of the USA at the same time, as provided by Hawaii Kingdom Constitution of 1887 also known as the Bayonet Constitution. Please see http://hooilina.org/collect/journal/index/assoc/HASH01b8.dir/5.pdf (http://hooilina.org/collect/journal/index/assoc/HASH01b8.dir/5.pdf) for details.
Kuleana
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Aloha HB,
"I met one of those Atooi marshals a few years back and he seemed like a nice enough guy, but he was a little vague on the details. Of course circumstances could widely vary, but are we talking about a kingdom? A republic? Loose association of islands with mutual aid agreements?"
I have always been fascinated by the so-called Polynesian Kingdom of Atooi (AK) and its self-proclaimed sovereignty of Hawaii.
Although they do utilize historical facts and extensive genealogy to make claims for a unified Polynesian Empire, they unfortunately fail to understand international law. Many nations of Polynesia willingly handed over their sovereignty by official Treaty to a number of European nations. Since there was/is no valid legal dispute over the annexation made by the indigenous populations of those Polynesian countries, there exists no legal basis for the territorial claims made by the AK.
Kuleana
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I'll just leave this here...
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/hawaiian-independence-movement-attracts-chinese-interest/ (http://freebeacon.com/national-security/hawaiian-independence-movement-attracts-chinese-interest/)
Although I sincerely doubt the credit of the particular media outlet.
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Ku, this makes too much sense, and is therefore invalid in the eyes of anti-America, pro-kingdom people because Kalakaua made a treaty with the Emperor of China, who obviously still runs the country today :crazy:
Eh, I've seen chinese people drive. I'm not worried.
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What are the chances that the people that China wants to supply with weapons are already heavily armed? :rofl: I am sure the thought has crossed their minds at some point in time. If it has not occurred already I doubt it is going to happen. I am sure they realize an armed overthrow of the government would not be successful for any length of time.
If we start seeing an influx of SKS and AK's to the islands does this mean the prices will drop? Supply and demand?
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I'm Chinese and I drive a Toyota
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I'm Chinese and I drive a Toyota
Here's a video of my driving.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zAoDT0TUuuw
Awesome
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(https://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1npqkVDLU1rsuffgo1_500.gif)
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Awesome
Damn, so if the ChiComs take over, that is what to expect?
Does not seem all the different from what I remember of Honolulu traffic five years ago!
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I'm Chinese and I drive a Toyota
I'm an OLD haole and I drive a Toyota.
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All of the people I know with that Defend Hawaii sticker/shirt, don't own any real firearms. They do however have an assortment of weapons on Call of Duty Advanced Warfare.