Don't FEED the Trolls. 

That's no fun!      

It may go without saying, but I'm going to say it anyway.  There are Hawaiians that have died for this country, are vets, and active duty.  I don't speak for anyone but myself, but not every Hawaiian agrees with the outspoken Sovereign groups.  Although I do understand where the anger comes from (example: Hawaiians are still getting ripped off, even nowadays with the land they currently own due to "development") but, IMO there are better ways to go about fighting for change.  Whatever that change may be.  IMO being disrespectful doesn't do anything but make us look uneducated, insincere, rowdy, and in some instances racist.  Respect goes both ways.

It may go without saying, but I'm going to say it anyway.  There are Hawaiians that have died for this country, are vets, and active duty.  I don't speak for anyone but myself, but not every Hawaiian agrees with the outspoken Sovereign groups.  Although I do understand where the anger comes from (example: Hawaiians are still getting ripped off, even nowadays with the land they currently own due to "development") but, IMO there are better ways to go about fighting for change.  Whatever that change may be.  IMO being disrespectful doesn't do anything but make us look uneducated, insincere, rowdy, and in some instances racist.  Respect goes both ways.

  +1

It is true that Hawaiians as a culture are a proud people. Most Hawaiians are hard working, honorable people.

The sad part, in my opinion is that the "hate" that the Hawaian people feel for the Haole and the government is "taught" to them. This same hate holds back the people from progressing.

The Hawaiians that are the most successful are, in my opinion, the ones that set aside the "hate" that has been poured into them and better themselves. Some of my family (Hawaiians) are doctors, lawyers, judges, professionals, making a very good living and providing for their families.

This is the best way to overcome any concern about what was taken from "you".

Work hard and buy it back.

If you want things to change around you, change them.

.

Aloha e KK,

"The sad part, in my opinion is that the "hate" that the Hawaian people feel for the Haole and the government is "taught" to them. This same hate holds back the people from progressing.
The Hawaiians that are the most successful are, in my opinion, the ones that set aside the "hate" that has been poured into them and better themselves. Some of my family (Hawaiians) are doctors, lawyers, judges, professionals, making a very good living and providing for their families."

I agree with you 100%.

Pure mindless hate will not allow anyone from focusing on what they need to do to malama themselves and/or their family.  I, too, come from a background of a family who were able to make a comfortable living in Hawaii.  However, I will only state that those Kanaka Maoli who were/are able to do so are the outliers, not the norm.  The majority of Kanaka Maoli are not so fortunate.  I am not talking about those who abuse and game the welfare system.  I am talking about those Kanaka Maoli who were not given the chance to attend Kamehameha School or some private school or fortunate enough to be born or married into money, or those who constantly endeavor to acquire a living wage job(s).


"If you want things to change around you, change them."

I could not have said it better.

That is why it is the unspoken kuleana for those Kanaka Maoli who have attained a level of material success to do whatever is possible educationally, economically, financially, or politically to redress the social-economic disparity that sent our people, excluding the ali'i and their descendants, down the capitalist ladder after the illegal overthrow of our Hawaiian Nation.


Kuleana

Aloha e KK,

"The sad part, in my opinion is that the "hate" that the Hawaian people feel for the Haole and the government is "taught" to them. This same hate holds back the people from progressing.
The Hawaiians that are the most successful are, in my opinion, the ones that set aside the "hate" that has been poured into them and better themselves. Some of my family (Hawaiians) are doctors, lawyers, judges, professionals, making a very good living and providing for their families."

I agree with you 100%.

Pure mindless hate will not allow anyone from focusing on what they need to do to malama themselves and/or their family.  I, too, come from a background of a family who were able to make a comfortable living in Hawaii.  However, I will only state that those Kanaka Maoli who were/are able to do so are the outliers, not the norm.  The majority of Kanaka Maoli are not so fortunate.  I am not talking about those who abuse and game the welfare system.  I am talking about those Kanaka Maoli who were not given the chance to attend Kamehameha School or some private school or fortunate enough to be born or married into money, or those who constantly endeavor to acquire a living wage job(s).


"If you want things to change around you, change them."

I could not have said it better.

That is why it is the unspoken kuleana for those Kanaka Maoli who have attained a level of material success to do whatever is possible educationally, economically, financially, or politically to redress the social-economic disparity that sent our people, excluding the ali'i and their descendants, down the capitalist ladder after the illegal overthrow of our Hawaiian Nation.


Kuleana

In other words, you yearn for that same success but are struggling to attain them. That's the American way. Somehow we lost it from generation to generation. Our current mindset is that it is given to them by the govt. Don't blame anyone else except the person in the mirror for "inequalities". Last I checked no one of color was riding in the back of a bus. Hawaiians are free to attend college, open a business, protest like any other American; but as you can see in the recent Army listening sessions, the Hawaiians that do protest over an "illegal occupation" were outnumbered by the majority of Americans.
So what is this medium you are addressing us in again...oh yeah it is the internet. A product of capitalist exploitation. Isn't it great?

Aloha Q,

"- The US didn't overthrow the Hawaiian Kingdom. A foreign ambassador of the United States assisted citizens of Hawaii in the overthrow, whom would later form the republic of Hawaii. Whether pro-sovereignty people like it or not, those responsible for the overthrow were Hawaiian citizens."

That is partially correct.  Yes, a number of traitors of the Hawaiian Kingdom Government were directly responsible for the illegal overthrow.  However, the Cleveland Administration conducted their own investigation of the events leading to the overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom and found that the interference of the US Ambassador and illegal use of US Naval Personnel were material in the overthrow and ordered the restoration of Hawaiian Kingdom, as stated in the President Cleveland's Restoration Agreement signed by Queen Liliʻuokalani in 1894.



"- The US didn't conquer Hawaii."

Semantics, but I concede that the US Government did not militarily conquer Hawaii.

 

"- The US doesn't treat Hawaiians like second class citizens"

Debatable.  For example, Olelo Hawaii is the second official language of the local state government, yet it is not primarily used or exist on any version of local state documents.  In Québec, Canada, French is an official language and is used on all of its official documents.



"- The US isn't economically burdening the Hawaiian people"

Semantics and debatable.  However, the local government still drags its feet in giving so-called ceded lands to Kanaka Maoli.


"- The US isn't the one building hotels and keeping Hawaii based on a tourism economy. Who owns most, if not all of the hotel properties in Waikiki? Oh, thats right...it must be the evil white haole man"

No, the white haole man has no more money.  However, what the white haole white men in-charge are doing is allowing the sale of the real estate to other foreigners that have money and assessing them property and tourism fees and taxes to collect money that way.



"I don't see how there is anything to be mad about. Under the kingdom, most Hawaiians that were not politically or royally connected had no access to the things we have today, and had to settle for mediocre jobs and second hand ways of life."

100% ACCURATE



"All these pro-sovereignty idiots do is cry about a way of life they never had to live in, yet shit on the hand the gives them their liberties, provided them with their education, and continues to allow them to live a developed, modernized lifestyle that they are not so quick to renounce."

Not all people who believe in the restoration of the Hawaiian Nation want to return to a 19th century or earlier lifestyle for that matter, and not all believe the key in restoring what was overthrown lies with disrespectful acts or violence.  Those people really need to reeducate themselves and choose a more educated approach to attain those economic or political goals they seek.



"Here is a perfect example:

Tonga is a 'free nation', and has never been conquered or overthrown, and is not being 'occupied' by a foreign nation. Look up the economics, development and social opportunities in Tonga, and let me know if you think it's superior to a US lifestyle."

Valid example.  Definitely not a place I would want to live.  However, I would not mind the economic success of other island nations or city states such as Singapore, Hong Kong, or Taiwan.



Kuleana

HK, Taiwan, Singapore dont grow hemp

Aloha Ren,

"Don't blame anyone else except the person in the mirror for "inequalities"."

Yes and no.

Yes, every individual needs to do the best they can to better their situation and be accountable.  However, those who are victims of discrimination and/or racism should also work collectively towards achieving social justice.



"Last I checked no one of color was riding in the back of a bus."

What are you talking about?  There are always dark people sitting in the back of our city buses.  Everybody living in Hawaii has a tan right?




"Hawaiians are free to attend college, open a business, protest like any other American; but as you can see in the recent Army listening sessions, the Hawaiians that do protest over an "illegal occupation" were outnumbered by the majority of Americans."

This is not anyway at all surprising.

How many people in those meetings, including those protesting illegal occupation, have taken the time to research the history of the illegal overthrow of Hawaii?  How many people, including so-called Kanaka Maoli activists, have taken the time to realize that there is evidence that the US Government has already legally agreed to do the right thing and restore the Hawaiian Kingdom Government, albeit, not enforcing its agreement to the descendants of the Hawaiian Nation for the last 123 years?


 
"So what is this medium you are addressing us in again...oh yeah it is the internet. A product of capitalist exploitation. Isn't it great?"

I don't understand your point.  Just like those living in China, Russia, and everyone else on this World, I love the use of the Internet.



Kuleana

Aloha Ren,

"HK, Taiwan, Singapore dont grow hemp"

They don't really need to.  HK and Taiwan traffic and make enough money on the drug trade already.  In Singapore, they make enough money on other activities.


Kuleana

While it's not the same as getting crowned king, working within the system has led to a Native Hawaiian becoming Mayor of Hawaii Island.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Kenoi

Regardless of whether or not u believe in the US you sure enjoy the rights of an American, Kuleana, as you own firearms. Thats a right given to u by the USA.

Aloha CC,

"While it's not the same as getting crowned king, working within the system has led to a Native Hawaiian becoming Mayor of Hawaii Island."

While I admire what Billy Kenoi has accomplished; only the Kanaka Maoli living on the Big Island have the right to comment on his contributions to their socio-economic progress.


Kuleana

Aloha Ren,

"Regardless of whether or not u believe in the US you sure enjoy the rights of an American, Kuleana, as you own firearms. Thats a right given to u by the USA."

Never said the US Constitution could not be a model for all nations.


Kuleana

Kuleana, why wont you renounce your USA citizenship?

.

Aloha CC,

"While it's not the same as getting crowned king, working within the system has led to a Native Hawaiian becoming Mayor of Hawaii Island."

While I admire what Billy Kenoi has accomplished; only the Kanaka Maoli living on the Big Island have the right to comment on his contributions to their socio-economic progress.


Kuleana

Kuleana,

Billy is EVERYBODY'S Mayor.  Maybe you just need to get over stuff that happened centuries ago. 

I don't agree with the fact that there is a reason to be angry.

- The US didn't overthrow the Hawaiian Kingdom. A foreign ambassador of the United States assisted citizens of Hawaii in the overthrow, whom would later form the republic of Hawaii. Whether pro-sovereignty people like it or not, those responsible for the overthrow were Hawaiian citizens.

- The US didn't conquer Hawaii.

- The US doesn't treat Hawaiians like second class citizens

- The US isn't economically burdening the Hawaiian people

- The US isn't the one building hotels and keeping Hawaii based on a tourism economy. Who owns most, if not all of the hotel properties in Waikiki? Oh, thats right...it must be the evil white haole man.

I don't see how there is anything to be mad about. Under the kingdom, most Hawaiians that were not politically or royally connected had no access to the things we have today, and had to settle for mediocre jobs and second hand ways of life. All these pro-sovereignty idiots do is cry about a way of life they never had to live in, yet shit on the hand the gives them their liberties, provided them with their education, and continues to allow them to live a developed, modernized lifestyle that they are not so quick to renounce.

Here is a perfect example:

Tonga is a 'free nation', and has never been conquered or overthrown, and is not being 'occupied' by a foreign nation. Look up the economics, development and social opportunities in Tonga, and let me know if you think it's  superior to a US lifestyle.

I have agree with majority of your statements, and for this have been criticized by other Hawaiians (not that I care all that much about it).  When I said that I understand the reason for the anger, I am not referring to the overthrow, but other situations.  I like others enjoy the rights and opportunities that America has provided and hard work will take you far, laziness and looking for handouts have never appealed to me.

Disclosure: This is just one of the many stories that have been told to me.  I have not personally looked into validating the claims,  but I have heard enough of them to believe that some of these have some truth to them, although I do not know the other side of the story.  Feel free to make you own assumptions,  as I have.

Here is a situation as an example: There is a proposal to build on land that you currently own (from what I recall it is ceded land).  They want to build a dump on your land and will pay you fair market value.  Fair market value at the time that the land was given, not now or at the time of development.

I am not familiar with how these things work or how it is imposed (for all I know, this is just the way it is),  but for face value I think I would be pissed if I was in that situation.

Aloha Q & Ren,

"Ren : Kuleana, why wont you renounce your USA citizenship?

EXACTLY WHAT I WANT TO KNOW"


Here is my answer.

When China was occupied by the Mongols, what did all the Chinese do?  The Chinese became legal unwilling subjects of the Mongol Empire and I am sure the Mongols did not care if they left China forever, but what happened?  THEY DID NOT ALL RENOUNCE THEIR CITIZENSHIP AND LEAVE; THEY KEPT THEIR LEGAL STATUS FOR CONVENIENCE AND JUST WAITED FOR THEIR TIME TO THROW THE MONGOLS OUT.  And why did they do it this way?  BECAUSE CHINA WAS THEIR HOME!

The same can be said for the Spanish colonization of the Philippines and India under the British Empire.  Did all the Filipinos renounce their status as subjects of Spain or the Indian people renounce their British legal status?  NO, THEY DID NOT.  What did they do then?  They both did as the Chinese did and kept their cause for liberalization alive till the time came when they could reclaim their homeland.

I am sure many in India asked Gandhi to renounce his British citizenship during his anti-British campaign and, correct me if I am wrong, but he never did.  If true, would anyone question his decision?  If Gandhi hated the British occupation so much, why did he not just pick-up and leave?  BECAUSE INDIA WAS HIS HOME!

I AM A KANAKA MAOLI AND HAWAII WILL ALWAYS BE MY HOME!


Kuleana

Aloha CrazyC,

"Maybe you just need to get over stuff that happened centuries ago."

After nearly 400 years of Spanish colonization, did Jose Rizal the father of the modern day Republic of the Philippines or Gandhi, after 190 years of British rule, or the current citizens of Israel, after the disappearance of Judea for over a thousand years just get over stuff that happened centuries ago?


Kuleana