2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Antithesis on April 13, 2015, 01:01:39 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZHIZC6veVY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZHIZC6veVY4)
This might be one of the craziest videos I've ever seen. A family of eight suspected of shoplifting and assaulting a Walmart employee starts a brawl with police and walmart employees in the parking lot that lasts almost eight minutes. Shots are fired about five minutes in and one of the suspects is killed but the family keeps fighting.
The media is trying to portray the family as hardcore-christian-right-wing-survivalist-types... which seems pretty accurate based on what I've read so far. The media is also in that same breath trying to play the game of "aha gotcha" with the police to pin them for brutality and excessive use of force, but to me every bit of force in this video seems absolutely necessary for the survival of the officers, if anything they may have even shown too much restraint. Thankfully the assaulting family was white so no one will be able to play the ever handy "victimized race card", but you can only imagine the wild sentimentalization had some slightly-more-pigmented--people thrown those punches.
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That Is a pretty crazy scenario! :o
Pretty sure that was the "Alaskan Bush People", the Brown family......Bear was going nuts!!
At least that's what I was thinking as I watched.
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Wow that seemed very disorganized, quite the melee. It's surprising only one person was shoot on either side.
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And by even mentioning the race and saying thankfully they were white you played the race card anyway. Good job! It was a good summary up to that unnecessary bit of information. Much like the news stations you added unnecessary racial bias.
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And by even mentioning the race and saying thankfully they were white you played the race card anyway. Good job! It was a good summary up to that unnecessary bit of information. Much like the news stations you added unnecessary racial bias.
Meh, if the shoe fits. I just wanted to use the alliteration of pigmented people throwing punches. ::)
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Damn, those guys was like don't touch me and starting swinging, the officers didn't expect that, it seems respect for the police is diminishing rapidly,I mean guys will just walk up to a police car and just empty a clip.
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Meh, if the shoe fits. I just wanted to use the alliteration of pigmented people throwing punches. ::)
OH NO YOU DIDNT!! Use the 3ps..lol :thumbsup:
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wow crazy video. The cops showed lots of restraint. I don't get why the cop is standing there talking to the guy while his partners are getting beat up. Maybe the police had more respect for the people than the people had for the police.
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@3:40 misfire?
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IMHO. Respect for law enforcement has been on the decline, as resepect for our government leaders has declined.
I think a shit ton of people bought into the BS being fed them for the last 6 years, and more?, now seeing that nothing fruitful has come of it, AND the economy in as much peril as it was previous.... amongst other issues plaguing the planet at this time.... with no real leadership or hopeful outlook. People on all sides are pretty pissy and the atmosphere ripe for anarchy.
As planned and designed? ???
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I mean guys will just walk up to a police car and just empty a clip.
Woah buddy, it's a MAGAZINE not a clip... ;) couldn't resist
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Woah buddy, it's a MAGAZINE not a clip... ;) couldn't resist
lol,a that's my gansta lingo,i even turn my handgun to the side when firing..
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IMHO. Respect for law enforcement has been on the decline, as resepect for our government leaders has declined.
I think a shit ton of people bought into the BS being fed them for the last 6 years, and more?, now seeing that nothing fruitful has come of it, AND the economy in as much peril as it was previous.... amongst other issues plaguing the planet at this time.... with no real leadership or hopeful outlook. People on all sides are pretty pissy and the atmosphere ripe for anarchy.
As planned and designed? ???
I agree. Glad I'm not the only one seeing this, I hope it is just my realist perspective. A sense of narcissism brought on by social media. Lack of ownership of actions. It's all about me. Only God can judge me mentality. Ainokea movement.
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wtf?
also, at 7:59 a cop literally tosses his gun to another cop. because the next thing we really needed was a negligent disharge killing someone else.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZHIZC6veVY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZHIZC6veVY4)
This might be one of the craziest videos I've ever seen. A family of eight suspected of shoplifting and assaulting a Walmart employee starts a brawl with police and walmart employees in the parking lot that lasts almost eight minutes. Shots are fired about five minutes in and one of the suspects is killed but the family keeps fighting.
The media is trying to portray the family as hardcore-christian-right-wing-survivalist-types... which seems pretty accurate based on what I've read so far. The media is also in that same breath trying to play the game of "aha gotcha" with the police to pin them for brutality and excessive use of force, but to me every bit of force in this video seems absolutely necessary for the survival of the officers, if anything they may have even shown too much restraint. Thankfully the assaulting family was white so no one will be able to play the ever handy "victimized race card", but you can only imagine the wild sentimentalization had some slightly-more-pigmented--people thrown those punches.
i don't know, maybe i'm interpreting things differently than everyone else
to me, the initial officers did a very poor job of controlling the situation when they arrived on scene
they did not take control of the situation, instead just rushed into the group and then the biggest guy in the tan clothing started swinging
this seemed to be an employee going after one of the family members
the guy in the tan was huge, but was not very effective at taking that other guy down
he hit him repeatedly, without much effect at all
the guy he was hitting was wide, but was not a fighter either
the initial officers were equally lousy fighters
those guys seemed more like big hicks rather than hardcore survivalists
real tough guys coulda taken those cops out easily
the initial officers did not control the situation at all with first quiet discussion than firmer voice commands, and then non-lethal stuff
it seemed like a long time into the fight before they even used batons, and i only heard tasers after the backup arrived
the backups seemed to initially turn the tide, but then it got really ugly
and not one of the subdued bad guys that you can see were ever cuffed
to me, it was a cluster fuck all around
but if you watch the way they were standing and their behavior when the police are arriving, they were not there to fight cops or take down the government
it could've went down differently in my mind
and why did they move that injured cop?
the situation was under control and you don't know the extent of the wounds
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i don't know, maybe i'm interpreting things differently than everyone else
to me, the initial officers did a very poor job of controlling the situation when they arrived on scene
they did not take control of the situation, instead just rushed into the group and then the biggest guy in the tan clothing started swinging
this seemed to be an employee going after one of the family members
the guy in the tan was huge, but was not very effective at taking that other guy down
he hit him repeatedly, without much effect at all
the guy he was hitting was wide, but was not a fighter either
the initial officers were equally lousy fighters
those guys seemed more like big hicks rather than hardcore survivalists
real tough guys coulda taken those cops out easily
the initial officers did not control the situation at all with first quiet discussion than firmer voice commands, and then non-lethal stuff
it seemed like a long time into the fight before they even used batons, and i only heard tasers after the backup arrived
the backups seemed to initially turn the tide, but then it got really ugly
and not one of the subdued bad guys that you can see were ever cuffed
to me, it was a cluster fuck all around
but if you watch the way they were standing and their behavior when the police are arriving, they were not there to fight cops or take down the government
it could've went down differently in my mind
and why did they move that injured cop?
the situation was under control and you don't know the extent of the wounds
1) I definitely agree. The initial police officer contact is aggressive and seems to infuriate and escalate this family and situation.
2) Regardless of whether or not the officer(s) handled the situation wrong, there is no excuse for getting into a family brawl with the officers.
3) It's easy for us to Monday morning quarterback this incident from our comfortable homes, but when placed in the situation where we had to make these same decisions, who knows how it would have transpired.
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3) It's easy for us to Monday morning quarterback this incident from our comfortable homes, but when placed in the situation where we had to make these same decisions, who knows how it would have transpired.
agreed
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IMHO. Respect for law enforcement has been on the decline, as resepect for our government leaders has declined.
I think a shit ton of people bought into the BS being fed them for the last 6 years, and more?, now seeing that nothing fruitful has come of it, AND the economy in as much peril as it was previous.... amongst other issues plaguing the planet at this time.... with no real leadership or hopeful outlook. People on all sides are pretty pissy and the atmosphere ripe for anarchy.
As planned and designed? ???
+1 :thumbsup:
Remember the old strategy "Divide and conquer". It works. They've been proving it for the last 50 years, incrementally driving a wedge between the people of this country along the fault line of the "haves" and "have not's". Insinuating, for example, that the reason a Fortune 500 CEO makes 100 million a year is due to amorphous concepts like "White privilege" and "Income inequality" instead of hard work, sacrifice and education.
Hell, why shouldn't a high school dropout flipping burgers make the same?
Unless a real leader steps out of the shadows, this is going to end in either a police state or civil war. I haven't seen one yet.....
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When keepin' it real goes wrong.
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Isn't Arizona an open carry state? It's hard to say whether adding additional firearms into this mix would have made the situation better or worse.
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Isn't Arizona an open carry state? It's hard to say whether adding additional firearms into this mix would have made the situation better or worse.
Yes Arizona is an open and/or concealed carry state (without any necessary permit)
Having said that though, people tend to be nicer as a whole, knowing that everybody could be armed.
"An armed society is a polite society"
These yahoos however, were not from Arizona.
There are serious problems with this family if they believe that engaging law enforcement in a brawl is "ok".
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I watched the video below with the chief of police explaining everything in the video and I believe the cops did the best they could and showed remarkable restraint. He also explained when a "good Samaritan" should step in and assist officers. Those people had obviously trained on how to fight the police and what to do when tazed and pepper sprayed. Everything made sense when he explained why the officers didn't have everyone handcuffed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki-R0d7DIAE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki-R0d7DIAE)
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Remarkable restraint doesn't even begin to describe how much control those officers had..... that family is lucky they're all not dead.
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How many times did the cops yell at them to get down?
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I would have team up and OC one at the time and cuff them all. Sort later.
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Really hard to tell what's going on in a melee like that. I saw in the followup videos that three "civilians" came to the aid of the officers before the backups arrived and were later honored by the PD for their actions.
I was kind of thinking to myself (I have a CCW and routinely carry) what I would have done if I came across this situation (and it was before I got crippled up a couple of years ago and were still able-bodied.)
My first instinct would have been to wade in to help out the police. But my conclusion (in the comfort of my couch and my feet up on the coffee table) was that if I were armed, I'd probably stay out of it for fear of having to draw my gun and be mistaken (in my civilian clothes) for one of the "family" and be targeted by the police. If I were not armed (unlikely!) I would have stepped in to help, risking getting clobbered by the cops OR the family by mistake.
Tough one. I was glad to see the officers all got out of it with their lives. Tough noogies on the tough guy who got killed.
Again, in the comfort of my couch and my feet up on the coffee table... oh, and my cane leaning against the wall.
But it helps to think about tactical decisions BEFORE they happen, even if they are as weird as this one.
What would YOU have done if you were a legally armed civilian?
Terry, 230RN
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Really hard to tell what's going on in a melee like that. I saw in the followup videos that three "civilians" came to the aid of the officers before the backups arrived and were later honored by the PD for their actions.
I was kind of thinking to myself (I have a CCW and routinely carry) what I would have done if I came across this situation (and it was before I got crippled up a couple of years ago and were still able-bodied.)
My first instinct would have been to wade in to help out the police. But my conclusion (in the comfort of my couch and my feet up on the coffee table) was that if I were armed, I'd probably stay out of it for fear of having to draw my gun and be mistaken (in my civilian clothes) for one of the "family" and be targeted by the police. If I were not armed (unlikely!) I would have stepped in to help, risking getting clobbered by the cops OR the family by mistake.
Tough one. I was glad to see the officers all got out of it with their lives. Tough noogies on the tough guy who got killed.
Again, in the comfort of my couch and my feet up on the coffee table... oh, and my cane leaning against the wall.
But it helps to think about tactical decisions BEFORE they happen, even if they are as weird as this one.
What would YOU have done if you were a legally armed civilian?
Terry, 230RN
It is tough to decide.
I think I would maintain a distance and not get involved in the scuffle. If I saw someone pull a gun and point it at an officer, I'd warn him as loud as I could, but with that many people moving and falling and fighting -- I'd be reluctant to draw.
I'd have someone hold my gun if I decided to jump in. I wouldn't want to introduce another weapon into the chaos and risk having it taken from me.
When Cops are on scene, you have to let them do their job. If it's a situation where a Cop is about the be shot, and I have a perfect shot with no chance of missing and hitting someone else, then MAYBE I'd draw and fire.
I think in certain circumstances, it's better for the Cops to retreat, make sure the family can't flee in their vehicle, and wait for the situation to calm down. You keep a safe distance and have your senior Cop talk to the head of the family. It might not work, but obviously trying to meet resistance with force wasn't a great decision either.
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"When Cops are on scene, you have to let them do their job. If it's a situation where a Cop is about the be shot, and I have a perfect shot with no chance of missing and hitting someone else, then MAYBE I'd draw and fire."
That's why all my carry guns have laser sights and I practice with the range lights off. But it was a tough situation, and the cops apparently could not imagine being attacked just by walking up and trying to investigate what was going on. I'd also hate to have to drop my gun on the gritty grindy ground if an LEO ordered me to do so.
Terry
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If you did that and a cop saw you were about to shoot someone, wouldn't you risk getting shot up by the cops?
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If you did that and a cop saw you were about to shoot someone, wouldn't you risk getting shot up by the cops?
Sometimes good deeds get punished.
I believe a Cop would draw his weapon and order me to drop mine before firing. Hopefully he's got good lungs and the rest of the noise doesn't drown him out.
Anytime you draw a gun, you have the risk of someone mistaking you as a bad guy. You're not in uniform, so you have to be aware of what people around you are doing.
There have been CCW holders trying to stop a bad guy who wound up getting shot dead by Cops. If you ever discharged a handgun without hearing protection, you know there's little chance of you hearing the Cop behind you yelling "DROP THE GUN!" That's exactly what happened to one CCW I read about.
Use all your senses. Look around you. The guy you are shooting at may not be the only threat.
When I bought my ID holder to put my CCW permit in, I was just wanting a double-windowed case for license and permit together if I ever need to show to LE. That's when I saw all these "CCW Badge" cases you can buy that have a real-looking badge inside. It's supposed to be so you hang it on your belt, in a shirt pocket, or with a lanyard around your neck. If you draw, the Cops may hold their fire if they see a badge. After some researching, I decided against it. One more thing to have to deal with if I draw.
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If you did that and a cop saw you were about to shoot someone, wouldn't you risk getting shot up by the cops?
Heh. Certainly not by the cop who was about to be bashed by the bad guy.
Concealed carry "badges" are universally put down and ridiculed, at least on the mainland gun boards. It's as if they were somehow childish and indicate you're a cop wannabe, but this is one case where something like that might be handy.
See:
http://images.info.com/search?qcat=images&r_cop=xxx&qkw=concealed+carry+badge (http://images.info.com/search?qcat=images&r_cop=xxx&qkw=concealed+carry+badge)
I chuckled to myself when I saw them on display at a local cop shop, but this discussion made me think a little more about it. Frankly, I wouldn't buy one since there's little chance of my encountering something like that, and nowadays instead of "wading into" a melee like that, I'd have to "hobble into" it, cane in one hand, gun in the other, and waving the badge around in my third hand. :rofl:
But maybe there's something to be said for them beyond the ridicule thrown out there by the "orthodox" members of the gun community.
I just don't know. But once again, it pays to think about tactical situations before they happen.
Terry, 230RN