2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: mauiboi9 on April 15, 2015, 07:57:55 PM
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Im looking for another ar-15. Cant decide on where to invest my money. The problem here is there are different types. DI vs piston. Different barrel profiles and types. I read online but i dont know whos talking truth or fan boys leading the train. The other problem is they are at different price points. Looking for a good, accurate, shtf gun. But at the same time best bang for your buck.I know proprietary parts are going to be another issue.
Options are-
1. HK Mr556 or Comp556
2. Noveske Spr or Rogue Hunter
3. JP Enterprises Jp-15
4. Larue Tactical Predatar
5. LWRC SPR IC
6. FN SCAR 16
7. Knights Armament Sr-15
If you can choose one and give feedback on why you would choose that one? Or if there are other options that i havent listed then im all ears. The only ARs i've shoot were bushmasters and stags. So looking to upgrade. Thanks for taking the time to visit this thread and giving my info.
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LRWC are giving away Aimpoint T1, with purchase Apr. 15 - 31, OGC has them in stock, that's a great bang for your buck.
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:shaka:
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Get the SCAR.
It's just a phenomenal rifle.
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Knights Armament is top of the line but proprietary so maybe a slight knock in shtf scenario. Would still be my choice though.
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All are top of the line but the lwrc with the free aimpoint is a good deal. I'd hop on it if I if I was in the market. If you don't like the aimpoint sell it. Then you just saved $600 on your LWRC. :thumbsup:
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Im looking for another ar-15. Cant decide on where to invest my money. The problem here is there are different types. DI vs piston. Different barrel profiles and types. I read online but i dont know whos talking truth or fan boys leading the train. The other problem is they are at different price points. Looking for a good, accurate, shtf gun. But at the same time best bang for your buck.I know proprietary parts are going to be another issue.
Options are-
1. HK Mr556 or Comp556
2. Noveske Spr or Rogue Hunter
3. JP Enterprises Jp-15
4. Larue Tactical Predatar
5. LWRC SPR IC
6. FN SCAR 16
7. Knights Armament Sr-15
If you can choose one and give feedback on why you would choose that one? Or if there are other options that i havent listed then im all ears. The only ARs i've shoot were bushmasters and stags. So looking to upgrade. Thanks for taking the time to visit this thread and giving my info.
the Scar isnt even an ar 15. and that point, might as well cross shop a Sig 556XI, a Tavor or an SL8 for a G36 conversion.
that said, the LWRC gets a free aimpoint, and that's serious value.
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LRWC are giving away Aimpoint T1, with purchase Apr. 15 - 31, OGC has them in stock, that's a great bang for your buck.
Ive seen the ad. but i dont want to base my buy off of the rebate.
Knights Armament is top of the line but proprietary so maybe a slight knock in shtf scenario. Would still be my choice though.
The MR556 would also be proprietary, mags can be a pain but the emags i believe work.
Get the SCAR.
It's just a phenomenal rifle.
What about the scar do you like so much? Ive read great things about the 17 as for accuracy with barrel being pencil barrel profile.
Have you try building them? You can build all kind you want even a ar-15 pistol. Never mind those brand names make you own.
Never put a ar-15 together and would hate to spend big bucks on parts and then screw it up and end up having someone else finish it for me. Dont have any of the tools also which would make the build more expensive.
the Scar isnt even an ar 15. and that point, might as well cross shop a Sig 556XI, a Tavor or an SL8 for a G36 conversion.
that said, the LWRC gets a free aimpoint, and that's serious value.
Ok maybe i should of said s.a. rifle in .223/5.56 cal. I put the scar 16 cause that interests me, the sig not so much and the tavor i didnt care for. I tried sourcing a sl8. Found one at gun source but he wants 2500, then to get the parts and send to tom bosic would run the build even higher. With the new news about the hk243 i think id rather wait on that vs building a sl8 clone.
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Over $1700 for an AR and you get into diminishing returns. If you want something really special, work with a local gun shop/gunsmith to assemble a rifle from the parts you provide. Also there is a lot of cool stuff coming later this year from Remington Defense when they start selling to civilians and IWI has the galil that will eventually release in 762nato. Also, you can start praying that HK brings the HK243 (Civilian G36) stateside which they are trying to do.
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From your list and statements it looks like you are looking for precision first and accuracy standard often lies within the shooters skill, ammo selection and the shooters idea of what is acceptable. What follows is not 100% accurate to every single barrel or every single rifle as there can be variances from barrel to barrel and rifle to rifle.
In general, pencil or the lightweight profile barrels are not as accurate once the barrel gets heated up. There tends to be a point of impact shift and group sizes generally increase. There are 2 schools of thought on this in that generally in a precision rifle, rate of fire tends to be slower, definitely at KKHD on the rifle side, the rate of fire will be slower if you are following the rules. Because of the slower rate of fire the barrel will not heat as quickly. Some people quite frankly might not be able to hold a group tight enough to notice a difference. The other thought, is that if it did come to an up close situation where you need to "pound rounds", then you are probably close enough that the shift in precision is not going to be noticed. The other elephant in the room is weight. Are you going to be humping it for hours on end, or not. If not, weight savings is a lesser consideration and I would accept small added weight for a barrel type and profile of my choice. For myself in a precision set up in an AR/M4 pattern rifle I prefer a LW SS barrel 14.5" - 18" and 16" would be a good happy medium. If you are wanting longer range, say past 600, the 5.56 will do it, but you should really step up in caliber.
If you are worried about proprietary, or looking for more commonality, interchangeability and availability of parts, then that greatly narrows your list and would move you in the direction of gas impingement in the AR/M4 pattern rifle. While I am not a big fan of a gas piston in an AR/M4 pattern rifle, it is hard to ignore the LWRC / Aimpoint deal. But for a precision rifle, I like the gas piston even less in the AR/M4.
From your list I really do like the Noveske and the SR15, but again the SR15 does have proprietary parts, but are considered to be an extremely rugged and reliable rifle, but they really are different ideas in the purpose of the rifle. If you want a good "battle grade" AR/M4 there are more economical choices that I would opt for while not giving anything up on reliability and durability.
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From your list and statements it looks like you are looking for precision first and accuracy standard often lies within the shooters skill, ammo selection and the shooters idea of what is acceptable. What follows is not 100% accurate to every single barrel or every single rifle as there can be variances from barrel to barrel and rifle to rifle.
In general, pencil or the lightweight profile barrels are not as accurate once the barrel gets heated up. There tends to be a point of impact shift and group sizes generally increase. There are 2 schools of thought on this in that generally in a precision rifle, rate of fire tends to be slower, definitely at KKHD on the rifle side, the rate of fire will be slower if you are following the rules. Because of the slower rate of fire the barrel will not heat as quickly. Some people quite frankly might not be able to hold a group tight enough to notice a difference. The other thought, is that if it did come to an up close situation where you need to "pound rounds", then you are probably close enough that the shift in precision is not going to be noticed. The other elephant in the room is weight. Are you going to be humping it for hours on end, or not. If not, weight savings is a lesser consideration and I would accept small added weight for a barrel type and profile of my choice. For myself in a precision set up in an AR/M4 pattern rifle I prefer a LW SS barrel 14.5" - 18" and 16" would be a good happy medium. If you are wanting longer range, say past 600, the 5.56 will do it, but you should really step up in caliber.
If you are worried about proprietary, or looking for more commonality, interchangeability and availability of parts, then that greatly narrows your list and would move you in the direction of gas impingement in the AR/M4 pattern rifle. While I am not a big fan of a gas piston in an AR/M4 pattern rifle, it is hard to ignore the LWRC / Aimpoint deal. But for a precision rifle, I like the gas piston even less in the AR/M4.
From your list I really do like the Noveske and the SR15, but again the SR15 does have proprietary parts, but are considered to be an extremely rugged and reliable rifle, but they really are different ideas in the purpose of the rifle. If you want a good "battle grade" AR/M4 there are more economical choices that I would opt for while not giving anything up on reliability and durability.
Thanks for the input.
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Don't waste your money on a piston. While the top tier units use them, they also get a ridiculous amount of funding. Units just one step down didn't see the point in switching from DI because the benefits simply did not outweigh the cost. The knowledge base and aftermarket support for DI is incredible. Allowing myself to be talked out of a piston may have been the best gun decision I ever made.
That being said, I do love Noveske. They were my first AR and I regret selling it enough that I'm working on another. But for the amount you'll pay, it's very hard not to just buy a BCM. They make outstanding stuff, have the customer service to back it up, and the value is pretty damn impressive. Find an upper you like (I'm partial to the pinned 14.5 or 16 mid lengths with fully extended rails), have it shipped straight to your door, and then pay a hundred or two for a lower and go from there. Lowers are much harder to get wrong, so there are tons of options, but if it were me, I'd get the BAD lower. If you don't feel like building the lower yourself, just buy from a place like Rainier Arms and pay the $25 assembly fee.
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If you're seriously considering the HK556 you mine as well go for the SCAR 17 lol. :shaka:
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I've owned many different ARs from many different top tier manufacturers...
The only platform that is still in my safe(s) are the SR15s.
Find a platform that works for YOU - buy multiple and set them all up the same way.
I am always on the lookout for SR15's for sale - and pick them up when keliishane doesn't beat me to them.
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Get the scar16,you will be glad you did, :shaka:
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I've owned many different ARs from many different top tier manufacturers...
The only platform that is still in my safe(s) are the SR15s.
Find a platform that works for YOU - buy multiple and set them all up the same way.
I am always on the lookout for SR15's for sale - and pick them up when keliishaine doesn't beat me to them.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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As for the SCAR - don't just go buy one because people say too. I hated it. With an AR you can change damn near any part to make it suit your needs. The SCAR doesn't really have that option so if you don't like it, you're kind of SOL.
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As for the SCAR - don't just go buy one because people say too. I hated it. With an AR you can change damn near any part to make it suit your needs. The SCAR doesn't really have that option so if you don't like it, you're kind of SOL.
lol.u hate it but you telling him to get an ar15.. :shake:
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Like. :thumbsup:
Don't get ANYTHING just because someone else tells you they like it...
I got rid of my SCAR 16, but then again, I also got rid of my Tavor.
I think it just depends on what works best for the individual shooter.
holy crap you got rid of your scar16 and tavor-I think you have way to much firearms to choose from. :worship:
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Get the scar16,you will be glad you did, :shaka:
Ive never shot one but when i hold one kind of feels like a pos imo.
If you're seriously considering the HK556 you mine as well go for the SCAR 17 lol. :shaka:
I dont have as much 308 ammo as i do .223/5.56. I have enough to feed my A.I. AW. Dont think i can feed a semi. I reload but id rather put funds into reloading my 50 vs 308
So far with what im reading im leaning towards Knights SR-15 wanted a lpr but they did away with those. Dont really fancy keymod rail. Wanted the urx 3.1 but those are hard to find. Or the noveske, rogue hunters are cheaper and i could use the rest to buy optics or buy the nsr and save up later. I really appreciate all the input and feedback everyone has given. Thank you very much for sharing. Was suprised that no much was said about the HK. And the fact no one mentioned JP enterprises or Larue.
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lol.u hate it but you telling him to get an ar15.. :shake:
Not sure what you are getting at?
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URX 3.1
https://www.boltcarrier.com/product/knights-armament-urx31-5-56mm-13-5-length-14-5-bbl-and-longer/ (https://www.boltcarrier.com/product/knights-armament-urx31-5-56mm-13-5-length-14-5-bbl-and-longer/)
I know the rails available but i mean a sr-15 with it on it already vs the urx4
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"So far with what im reading im leaning towards Knights SR-15 wanted a lpr but they did away with those. Dont really fancy keymod rail."
I don't care for the URX4 keymod either....
Mod1 and LPR
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Mossberg MMR. I love mine
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I know the rails available but i mean a sr-15 with it on it already vs the urx4
Mod1's with the rail can still be found brand new - probably need to bring in from the mainland.
Or you could always get the mod2 and change it to the 3.1
Got guys out there (and even here) that have put 3.1's on damn near everything.
RE: LaRue. Owned a few - never got the chance to run any through their paces to make a determination. What I will say, though, is I do question some of their practices re: wait times and lack of communication. But hey, if you want one I heard you can get a 16" tAR with no wait time.
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I strongly reccomend a scar 17. There are a plethora of aftermarket options available out there now. You can swap lowers without dealing with a ffl, you can get different triggers, fore ends, barrels, all kinds of stuff. It is also very light recoiling. The stock iron sights are excellent.buy one online and have it shipped to an ffl here and you will save 600+ dollars. I got mine for 2600.
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SR15s are pretty but pricey.
Better bet to buy a BCM, Geissele 2 Stage (G2S) Trigger, 1 case of ammo and a aimpoint.
GTG
Good luck with the purchase.
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What about the scar do you like so much? Ive read great things about the 17 as for accuracy with barrel being pencil barrel profile.
I have quite a few "high end" semi auto rifles.
I like the SCAR (16&17) ergonomics, weight, balance, accuracy, reliability, ease of disassembly/cleaning/maintenance.
My 16 shoots sub MOA with 75 grain PPU match.
I like the 16 best (5.56) My LWRC M6IC would be my 2nd favorite.
In .308, I like the SCAR17 best, 2nd favorite would be my REPR.
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Thanks for the info guys, got lots of feedback. Narrowed it down to 3. And it aint like its going to be my last purchase so may in time ill get all three lol. Thank god for tax returns. lol
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Anyone have experience with bushmaster acrs? POS? ok? Kind of something that didnt follow through with the caliber conversions and all. Was it all a hype? Ok firearm?
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Anyone have experience with bushmaster acrs? POS? ok? Kind of something that didnt follow through with the caliber conversions and all. Was it all a hype? Ok firearm?
I own one and enjoy shooting it. There are some pretty good reviews on youtube of the ACR. There is practically no aftermarket support for the ACR :(. Dedicated owners have been forced to engineer their own aftermarket hand guards, titanium fire pins and caliber conversion kits. The ACR has so much potential to be a one stop shot shooting platform but Bushmaster has pretty much killed it. I'm hoping with Remington Defense now offering their products to the civilian market, they will bring the the support that this rifle deserves or motivate companies to do so. :shaka:. The Remington defense ACR has the improvements that cut weight and slimed the rifle down, so fingers crossed they offer it in semi-auto in the near future.
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Sr15. Just do it
I have
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Sr15. Just do it
I have
Just weighing out all the options. lol.
I own one and enjoy shooting it. There are some pretty good reviews on youtube of the ACR. here is practically no aftermarket support for the ACR :(. Dedicated owners have been forced to engineer their own aftermarket hand guards, titanium fire pins and caliber conversion kits. The ACR has so much potential to be a one stop shot shooting platform but Bushmaster has pretty much killed it. I'm hoping with Remington Defense now offering their products to the civilian market, they will bring the the support that this rifle deserves or motivate companies to do so. :shaka:. The Remington defense ACR has the improvements that cut weight and slimed the rifle down, so fingers crossed they offer it in semi-auto in the near future.
Thanks
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LRWC are giving away Aimpoint T1, with purchase Apr. 15 - 31, OGC has them in stock, that's a great bang for your buck.
Yes but at $2600+ I'm not sure that it's such a big bang.
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Yes but at $2600+ I'm not sure that it's such a big bang.
From Twitter:
CARTER BERLIN @OGCTACTICAL ยท Apr 17
TO SWEETEN THE DEAL, ALL LWRC SPR, IC, AND SIX-8 RIFLES
ON SALE $2499 UNTIL SATURDAY 6PM. COMBINED WITH THE
MAIL IN AIMPOINT T1 SUPER DEAL!
Sale ended yesterday. >:(
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Assembled both mine, finishing AR10 this weekend.
It's really not difficult. I don't understand why more people don't do it. You'll probably end up spending the same or more, but you can get exactly what you want and know how everything works.
As for tools.. You really only need a soft mallet, punches, armorer tool and hex keys. And you pretty much need all those to maintain one anyway. If you're going to barrel, torque wrench and headspace gauges are handy.
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Here's my 2 cents. Take it how you want. I have lwrc ic spr and a kac sr15. Love both of them and both shoot well...with 67gr and up. They shoot 55gr surplus fine but greater than moa. Both are my pride and joy out of my ar collection but I also have a $700 m&p 15 sport(old 1/8 barrel). Shoots well under moa with bulk 55gr 223 ammo which I stock up on. So which one is better? Depends how you measure better. Build quality and components to my kac and lwrc are through the roof but are they $2000 better? Only you can answer that. I'll say this though $2k can buy a lot of bulk ammo
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From Twitter:
Sale ended yesterday. >:(
My local gun store Maui Ammo Gun supply Regular price on LWRC ic spr is 2300. Thats not a sale price. lol
Here's my 2 cents. Take it how you want. I have lwrc ic spr and a kac sr15. Love both of them and both shoot well...with 67gr and up. They shoot 55gr surplus fine but greater than moa. Both are my pride and joy out of my ar collection but I also have a $700 m&p 15 sport(old 1/8 barrel). Shoots well under moa with bulk 55gr 223 ammo which I stock up on. So which one is better? Depends how you measure better. Build quality and components to my kac and lwrc are through the roof but are they $2000 better? Only you can answer that. I'll say this though $2k can buy a lot of bulk ammo
Thats the kinda of feed back im looking for. I appreciate it. Going shoot for the sr-15 first, then lwrc since the promo is going on. Get waiting to see if my local gun store can find them available.
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Assembled both mine, finishing AR10 this weekend.
It's really not difficult. I don't understand why more people don't do it. You'll probably end up spending the same or more, but you can get exactly what you want and know how everything works.
As for tools.. You really only need a soft mallet, punches, armorer tool and hex keys. And you pretty much need all those to maintain one anyway. If you're going to barrel, torque wrench and headspace gauges are handy.
I see lots of people make that argument, but rarely see "home built" products run like my factory uppers.
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I see lots of people make that argument, but rarely see "home built" products run like my factory uppers.
and how do they run? examples
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and how do they run? examples
They don't. Not saying it can't be done, just that from the few I have seen, more often than not, people either don't pick the right parts, assemble it correctly, or both. Usually having to do with the gas system.
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I have an LWRC than kind of looks like an Lego masterpiece that my kid put together . I have an Knights SR.-15 lrp that I put together for my wife with an S&B 4-16 . I never ever shot these guns . Spend wisely lol :shaka:
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I have an LWRC than kind of looks like an Lego masterpiece that my kid put together . I have an Knights SR.-15 lrp that I put together for my wife with an S&B 4-16 . I never ever shot these guns . Spend wisely lol :shaka:
The scope cost more then the gun lol
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Here's my 2 cents. Take it how you want. I have lwrc ic spr and a kac sr15. Love both of them and both shoot well...with 67gr and up. They shoot 55gr surplus fine but greater than moa. Both are my pride and joy out of my ar collection but I also have a $700 m&p 15 sport(old 1/8 barrel). Shoots well under moa with bulk 55gr 223 ammo which I stock up on. So which one is better? Depends how you measure better. Build quality and components to my kac and lwrc are through the roof but are they $2000 better? Only you can answer that. I'll say this though $2k can buy a lot of bulk ammo
well yeah, but that's probably because the expensive rifles arent designed to run on cheap ammo. its like comparing honda civic to a a jaguar XFR and saying the honda runs better on regular than the Jag. of course it does. both engines were designed and tuned for diffeent qualities of gas. its not a fair comparison in either direction.
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So i ordered the LWRC in fde ic spr. If i dont like it ill sell it and keep the aimpoint lol. Thanks guys for the info. But next ar ill buy will no doubt be the knights armament.