2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: monster796 on August 02, 2015, 10:39:05 PM
-
So there I am, in the living room with my wife when I hear what sounds like a gun being racked back repeatedly. I go into another room to look and sure enough a man holding what appears to be a pistol, aimed toward our road, pulling the slide back repeatedly. I am like "what the Fuçk?!?, it looked as if it was a pistol, it could have been a BB gun but it definitely, I believed it was a firearm. The man then went inside his home. I had no idea what he was doing or trying to do, so I called 911 and reported it to them. I believe I did the right thing, firearm or BB gun that looked like a firearm, pointing it at a main road is a huge no no. Did I do the right thing, it was pointed directly at the road, should I have done anything differently. Your thoughts my friends...
-
Sounds like something like that deserved official investigation --or at least a checking-out. You never know the mental state of someone who does something like that, regardless of age. At least there'll be a record of the contact, even if it was perfectly legal (which I doubt) or the person was a minor, or it was "just a BB gun or water pistol," or whatever.
There should be a "trouble push-pin" in the PD's map for that address. Anything happens, that will be the first (and most likely) place for them to look to find the source of the trouble.
I tell you true, in older times, I would have ignored it and just chalked it up as the guy being an asshole, but nowadays, it's a different world with all those nuts running around loose. He could have been "acting out" a future event of some kind. I do have a propane-powered Airsoft Colt MKIV that sounds (and looks) like a real gun when you rack it, but I'm damned if I'd display it casually, red-tipped muzzle or no red-tipped muzzle. (It's also pretty loud.)
My vote is you did the right thing.
Terry, 230RN
-
i think that's the right thing. even if open carry were legal, someone actually drawing and doing anything to manipulate his weapon deserves investigation.
either he's in the wrong (drawing for no good reason, or malicious reasons), or something caused him to draw which needs to be looked into.
-
I have to go the opposite way on this. There is no law that says it's illegal to be on your own property holding a firearm. There is no law saying you can't point a firearm at a roadway.
Unless he discharged the weapon, left his property, you heard cries for help, or you saw him threatening someone, you have no reason to call the Cops.
For all you know, he had just cleaned the pistol and was working the action to distribute the lubrication. It really doesn't matter.
We've become conditioned to not trust anyone with a gun in his hand for any reason other than buying, registering, or practicing with one at a range.
If you know of any laws he broke, showing us what they are would be appreciated. But calling the Cops on someone who is on their own property and racking what sounds like from your description to be an empty gun was inappropriate.
Just my opinion based on the story provided.
-
its not that i dont trust a person with a gun.
It's that i dont trust someone who's actively aiming it with no discernible reason, especially not from a safety perspective.
if you're going to make the argument that he just finished cleaning his weapon (on the front lawn presumably, since this was in view of his neighbor), then at the very least, pointing his gun at the street is still very irresponsible if there isnt an active threat. so either he needs a lesson in actual gun safety, or someone needs to figure out what threat he was seeing that caused him to do so.
and for the record, its never specified if he WAS on his property or not. im assuming he was, but if he wasnt, well then there's your law broken. and if he was on his property, then someone needs to teach him how to safely handle his firearms.
-
its not that i dont trust a person with a gun.
It's that i dont trust someone who's actively aiming it with no discernible reason, especially not from a safety perspective.
if you're going to make the argument that he just finished cleaning his weapon (on the front lawn presumably, since this was in view of his neighbor), then at the very least, pointing his gun at the street is still very irresponsible if there isnt an active threat. so either he needs a lesson in actual gun safety, or someone needs to figure out what threat he was seeing that caused him to do so.
and for the record, its never specified if he WAS on his property or not. im assuming he was, but if he wasnt, well then there's your law broken. and if he was on his property, then someone needs to teach him how to safely handle his firearms.
Right. So if we assume no actual laws were broken, then do you still believe calling the Cops is appropriate?
"911. What is your emergency?"
"Yeah, I need the police to go teach my neighbor how to safely handle his firearm so he's not pointing it at the road in front of my house. He's really making me nervous!"
If it were my neighbor, I'd walk over and knock on his door. The neighborly thing to do would be to explain how i could see the firearm, and he should be more careful about displaying it where others might see it. Then I'd ask if he goes to the range much, and how often the RSO needed to yell at him for lack of muzzle discipline! :)
-
Right. So if we assume no actual laws were broken, then do you still believe calling the Cops is appropriate?
"911. What is your emergency?"
"Yeah, I need the police to go teach my neighbor how to safely handle his firearm so he's not pointing it at the road in front of my house. He's really making me nervous!"
If it were my neighbor, I'd walk over and knock on his door. The neighborly thing to do would be to explain how i could see the firearm, and he should be more careful about displaying it where others might see it. Then I'd ask if he goes to the range much, and how often the RSO needed to yell at him for lack of muzzle discipline! :)
I belive in "mind your own business" if no laws were broken . hell, i open carry daily and don't believe anyone should even look at me funny not alone covering it.
-
In your case, I think you did the right thing.
1. He went back inside his house so he is your neighbor.
2. But you don't this neighbor well enough to evaluate his actions.
3. I know you have a family to protect.
4. A visit from a cop will put this idiot on notice that it's not polite or safe to do s...t like that. Like that kid that got shot for waving around an airgun at the park.
Somebody needs to talk to him. That's what we pay the police for.
5. I know you are moving soon, so you don't have to worry about making friends with this idiot.
....
Going forward, I suggest you spend some time to get to know your neighbors wherever you are.
Then you could ask them about that weird neighbor.
For myself, I occasionally walk around my yard with an airgun, shooting at stuff that needs to git shot.
Like ugly invasive lizards, bulbul birds, and crapping cats. But then, my neighbors do it too. :thumbsup:
-
I belive in "mind your own business" if no laws were broken . hell, i open carry daily and don't believe anyone should even look at me funny not alone covering it.
...
I think there is a difference between open carrying and brandishing. This dude was brandishing.
What if your kids are on the street riding a bike or skateboard?
-
Hello everyone,
It was not his property, homes very close together. I also believe a law was broken, according to a HPD officer I spoke to a year ago (about the legality of a oc gun called JPX jet) even merely displaying what even looks like a handgun is a crime. According to that officer anyway, the officer said that a JPX is not a firearm but showing it or anything else that looks like a firearm (water gun, BB gun) is illegal. Also, the folks that live there are not the most stable, yelling at all times of day, and this old woman that death stares at my wife and I whenever she sees us, my wife and I are kind and respectful to everyone and my wife is 9montjs pregnant, just this old woman followed us on the adjacent side of the property staring at us like we did something to her, not the most sane folks...
As far as minding my own business I agree, a holstered weapon is perfectly fine, aiming a weapon or what looks like to be a weapon aimed at a street everyone around her travels cocking a firearm, it became my business, I believe. Especially with random nut jobs shooting up folks and the media jumping on it like flies on crap.
Thanks for the responses guys. If there was anything that I could have done differently please let me know, it never seen a person aim a firearm at traffic before :O
-
I don't know the actual laws, especially when looking them up for something in black and white. So what is considered as "displaying"/"showing" a firearm and how is that illegal? A friend of mine who is a cop on Maui says it's legal to open carry on your property, has this changed?
-
< (Note location.)
one2boost said,
I don't know the actual laws, especially when looking them up for something in black and white.
Well, around here, the words "from, upon, or across" a public road is illegal, at least as far as actually firing a shot is concerned. YMMV.
While no shots were fired, and while I agree that firearms carry should be "normalized," the actions described by the OP seem noteworthy and unusual --especially considering the additional data added later.
At least noteworthy enough to post about it.
As monster796 (the OP) said, "Especially with random nut jobs shooting up folks and the media jumping on it like flies on crap."
That's exactly where I was coming from when I remarked about in days of old I'd have ignored it. Then it was like this: :sleeping:
Now it's more like this: :shake:
It is a different world nowadays, even here in Colorado.
I'd call it "preventative maintenance."
Terry, 230RN
-
Hello everyone,
It was not his property, homes very close together. I also believe a law was broken, according to a HPD officer I spoke to a year ago (about the legality of a oc gun called JPX jet) even merely displaying what even looks like a handgun is a crime. According to that officer anyway, the officer said that a JPX is not a firearm but showing it or anything else that looks like a firearm (water gun, BB gun) is illegal. Also, the folks that live there are not the most stable, yelling at all times of day, and this old woman that death stares at my wife and I whenever she sees us, my wife and I are kind and respectful to everyone and my wife is 9montjs pregnant, just this old woman followed us on the adjacent side of the property staring at us like we did something to her, not the most sane folks...
As far as minding my own business I agree, a holstered weapon is perfectly fine, aiming a weapon or what looks like to be a weapon aimed at a street everyone around her travels cocking a firearm, it became my business, I believe. Especially with random nut jobs shooting up folks and the media jumping on it like flies on crap.
Thanks for the responses guys. If there was anything that I could have done differently please let me know, it never seen a person aim a firearm at traffic before :O
police officers are usually not the best source of legal advice.
next time they tell you something is illegal ask them for the HRS so you can look it up yourself. from my experience I've been told things are illegal but when asked what's the HRS they don't know or say to "just trust me". take it for what it's worth but that's been my experience.
-
If in fact he was not on his property (owned or rented), then he can't have a firearm in his hand. That would be the law he was breaking and should be the basis for reporting him.
Pointing the gun in an unsafe direction is not illegal unless he discharges the weapon. If it makes you nervous, as it would most people who know the gun safety rules and practice them, that unfortunately doesn't rise to the level of breaking the law.
As far as the crazies in the news, you have just done exactly what the media and anti-gunners want you to do: You had an emotional reaction to the sight of someone with a firearm!
There are over 3 million firearms owned by private citizens in the US. Given that active shooting incidents range between 6 and 16 per year (depending on when you start tallying), the ratio of the high-end of active shooters to the low-end of legal gun owners iw 16/3M = .0533%.
There is one-twentieth of one percent chance that a legal gun owner will go on a shooting spree. So, given those odds, I don't think we should always assume the negative when seeing someone with a gun. You have a much higher likelihood that the car you are about to walk in front of in a crosswalk will be operated by an impaired driver who won't stop at the red light.
-
If it were my neighbor, I'd walk over and knock on his door. The neighborly thing to do would be to explain how i could see the firearm, and he should be more careful about displaying it where others might see it.
Right, the guy could be a pissed off nut job coming from a place where "the folks that live there are not the most stable, yelling at all times of day," who has a gun which he has already publicly and illegally brandished off his property while miss-appropriately handling it and you want me to walk over, knock on his door and basically call him an idiot ? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
-
.
-
This is precisely why I posted about the necessity of open carry to preserve the right to keep and bear arms. Just as talents are lost when not exercised the same applies to a people rights when not exercised.
When the right to bear arms is not exercised in an open capacity, we inadvertently create alarm when such open exposure occurs as others become alarmed when it happens in front of them. This exactly why open carry is the responsibility of all people who expect to retain their right to keep and bear arms for themselves and their children.
A man racking his hand gun in the front yard might be making sure his firearm is clear and no round is chambered or trying to clear a jammed round. Rather than having a bullet eject in a house from a chamber which could strike an object in the house and fire openly, it is safer to eject a possible round outdoors on a lawn or some other safe ejection area. Live rounds can be detonated when thrown through the air if they strike a hard object in the correct orientation (rare but not unheard of). Also, aiming it at the street may have been nothing more than citing down the chamber to see if it was clear. I wouldn't have been alarmed nor would I consider the person an idiot and weather or not they were a relative of the home occupants or friend would not have been my business, not unless there was a firearm discharge.
I would consider the phone call to police to be a direct product of inadequate exposure to firearms and further proof as to how the right to keep and bear arms has become an intolerant act even by those who claim to back the second amendment. You're giving the gun grabbers all the ammo they need by not openly practicing the right to keep and bear arms, it's just a matter of a generation or two more and the right will be repealed by a new constitutional amendment.
-
Right, the guy could be a pissed off nut job coming from a place where "the folks that live there are not the most stable, yelling at all times of day," who has a gun which he has already publicly and illegally brandished off his property while miss-appropriately handling it and you want me to walk over, knock on his door and basically call him an idiot ? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Most of what you listed in your description was added to this thread after I posted the comment you quoted, So, your comment is off base. Please read my later comments..
But, I guess you'll do whatever it takes to entertain yourself! :sleeping:
-
This is precisely why I posted about the necessity of open carry to preserve the right to keep and bear arms. Just as talents are lost when not exercised the same applies to a people rights when not exercised.
When the right to bear arms is not exercised in an open capacity, we inadvertently create alarm when such open exposure occurs as others become alarmed when it happens in front of them. This exactly why open carry is the responsibility of all people who expect to retain their right to keep and bear arms for themselves and their children.
A man racking his hand gun in the front yard might be making sure his firearm is clear and no round is chambered or trying to clear a jammed round. Rather than having a bullet eject in a house from a chamber which could strike an object in the house and fire openly, it is safer to eject a possible round outdoors on a lawn or some other safe ejection area. Live rounds can be detonated when thrown through the air if they strike a hard object in the correct orientation (rare but not unheard of). Also, aiming it at the street may have been nothing more than citing down the chamber to see if it was clear. I wouldn't have been alarmed nor would I consider the person an idiot and weather or not they were a relative of the home occupants or friend would not have been my business, not unless there was a firearm discharge.
I would consider the phone call to police to be a direct product of inadequate exposure to firearms and further proof as to how the right to keep and bear arms has become an intolerant act even by those who claim to back the second amendment. You're giving the gun grabbers all the ammo they need by not openly practicing the right to keep and bear arms, it's just a matter of a generation or two more and the right will be repealed by a new constitutional amendment.
He is not on his property, the association owns every inch except for your back area. He was not in this area and the gun was pointed at a street where a car passes every 10 seconds, open carry is great and I am the most pro gun person ever, pointing a firearm at a road is not acceptable at all, let me say it again, he was aiming the gun at the frequently tracked road as if trying to cock it from a shooting position.
-
He is not on his property, the association owns every inch except for your back area. He was not in this area and the gun was pointed at a street where a car passes every 10 seconds, open carry is great and I am the most pro gun person ever, pointing a firearm at a road is not acceptable at all, let me say it again, he was aiming the gun at the frequently tracked road as if trying to cock it from a shooting position.
The fact you found his actions to be concerning is enough to prove that undue alarm over firearms exist even in those who claim to honor the second amendment. Irrelevant to the laws of the State of Hawaii, what does the supreme law of land state in the second amendment? Who owns the association? What are its bylaws? What is the place where someone can have a firearm in the State of Hawaii, were the words inside home used or some other legal word that represents a place where a person is residing?
-
The fact you found his actions to be concerning is enough to prove that undue alarm over firearms exist even in those who claim to honor the second amendment. Irrelevant to the laws of the State of Hawaii, what does the supreme law of land state in the second amendment? Who owns the association? What are its bylaws? What is the place where someone can have a firearm in the State of Hawaii, were the words inside home used or some other legal word that represents a place where a person is residing?
...
Undue alarm??
So when is alarm due?...hmmmm?
-
He is not on his property, the association owns every inch except for your back area. He was not in this area and the gun was pointed at a street where a car passes every 10 seconds, open carry is great and I am the most pro gun person ever, pointing a firearm at a road is not acceptable at all, let me say it again, he was aiming the gun at the frequently tracked road as if trying to cock it from a shooting position.
Are you and the scary gun guy both in the same condo? Either in a condo? Or is the "association" your neighborhood/town association?
-
I would've called the cops. (Not on my neighbors because I know them, but in this situation)
Just so they talk to him.
Especially with a pregnant wife and bailing pretty soon.
Of course there is the possibility of retribution from " who called the F-in police ?" If the guys truly unstable.
Last thing I would do is walk over and talk to him if I didn't know him from Adam.
How many members have taken their pistols into the front yard/next to the street to rack them to make sure they were clear or to clear a jam because it was safer.
I hope none.
Did the cops come and talk to him ?
-
Yeah, you did the right thing. If I was in my front my house or especially someone else's house where I live in ewa gentry with pistol racking the slide repeatedly, I would expect a visit from the swat team and my 5 minutes of fame on Hawaii news now.
-
The fact you found his actions to be concerning is enough to prove that undue alarm over firearms exist even in those who claim to honor the second amendment. Irrelevant to the laws of the State of Hawaii, what does the supreme law of land state in the second amendment? Who owns the association? What are its bylaws? What is the place where someone can have a firearm in the State of Hawaii, were the words inside home used or some other legal word that represents a place where a person is residing?
Undue alarm? One of the fundamental safety rules of to NEVER Aim at something you don't intend to shoot, I also forgot to mention that across the road that he was aiming at are two story homes. He was aiming( intentionally or unintentionally) aiming at multiple cars and homes. Salty0317, your saying aiming a firearm or what appears to be a firearm at cars and homes is okay? I hope liberals never read your comment.
So 3 Cop cars rolled up, they talked to the neighbor, I have no idea what they said, and then about 10 minutes later the cops were at their cars talking and joking. Then they left.
If he was aiming in a direction with nothing for miles, I probably wouldn't have called. I just thought it would be my luck this idiot shot someone or a home and I didn't do anything. And if he's aiming it at cars and homes across the street he would probably aim it here too. Thanks for the input, also, if they were normal neighbors that didn't stare at my wife and I like we committed some crime ,or loud and verbally abusive to each other, I MIGHT have went over (if they seemed same) and explain the proper rules of Firearm safety, I believe with the aiming at cars and homes and their unstable behavior, that going overthere myself was not safe or a good idea. I was happy nothing happens to the cops when they went over. Without the old woman noticing she was recorded (just in case something happened) pretty creepy and scary situation, not sane folks lol
-
Undue alarm? One of the fundamental safety rules of to NEVER Aim at something you don't intend to shoot, I also forgot to mention that across the road that he was aiming at are two story homes. He was aiming( intentionally or unintentionally) aiming at multiple cars and homes. Salty0317, your saying aiming a firearm or what appears to be a firearm at cars and homes is okay? I hope liberals never read your comment.
So 3 Cop cars rolled up, they talked to the neighbor, I have no idea what they said, and then about 10 minutes later the cops were at their cars talking and joking. Then they left.
He probably told them he can't clean his gun in the house because the fumes irritate his wife's sinuses.
Good thing he wasn't shooting an air rifle in a cemetery! His rifle would be confiscated, and he'd be arrested for terroristic threatening with a replica!
-
Undue alarm? One of the fundamental safety rules of firearm safety is to NEVER Aim at something you don't intend to shoot, I also forgot to mention that across the road two story homes. He was aiming( intentionally or unintentionally) at multiple cars and homes. Salty0317, your saying aiming a firearm or what appears to be a firearm at cars and homes is okay? I hope liberals never read your comment.
So 3 Cop cars rolled up, they talked to the neighbor, I have no idea what they said, and then about 10 minutes later the cops were at their cars talking and joking. Then they left.
If he was aiming in a direction with nothing for miles, I probably wouldn't have called. I just thought it would be my luck this idiot shot someone or a home and I didn't do anything. And if he's aiming it at cars and homes across the street he would probably aim it here too. Thanks for the input, also, if they were normal neighbors that didn't stare at my wife and I like we committed some crime ,or loud and verbally abusive to each other, I MIGHT have went over (if they seemed same) and explain the proper rules of Firearm safety, I believe with the aiming at cars and homes and their unstable behavior, that going overthere myself was not safe or a good idea. I was happy nothing happens to the cops when they went over. The day the old woman followed and starred at my wife and I, Without the old woman noticing she was recorded (just in case something happened) pretty creepy and scary situation, not sane folks lol
-
Good thing he wasn't shooting an air rifle in a cemetery! His rifle would be confiscated, and he'd be arrested for terroristic threatening with a replica!
Never shoot an air rifle in a cemetery !
Pizza !
-
^ lol
-
This is precisely why I posted about the necessity of open carry to preserve the right to keep and bear arms. Just as talents are lost when not exercised the same applies to a people rights when not exercised.
When the right to bear arms is not exercised in an open capacity, we inadvertently create alarm when such open exposure occurs as others become alarmed when it happens in front of them. This exactly why open carry is the responsibility of all people who expect to retain their right to keep and bear arms for themselves and their children.
except this had nothing to do with open carry or a lack of exposure.
if you dont think someone handling firearms unsafely near YOU is a cause for concern, fine. but if i see someone pointing a gun anywhere near residential areas without a good cause, im not about to trust him not to do something even dumber like your classic "accidental discharge".
there's a difference between being alarmed at open carry, and being alarmed when someone's pointing a lethal weapon into the street. this isnt someone being scared of guns or anything, its about someone seeing clearly unsafe gun handling.
A man racking his hand gun in the front yard might be making sure his firearm is clear and no round is chambered or trying to clear a jammed round. Rather than having a bullet eject in a house from a chamber which could strike an object in the house and fire openly, it is safer to eject a possible round outdoors on a lawn or some other safe ejection area. Live rounds can be detonated when thrown through the air if they strike a hard object in the correct orientation (rare but not unheard of). Also, aiming it at the street may have been nothing more than citing down the chamber to see if it was clear. I wouldn't have been alarmed nor would I consider the person an idiot and weather or not they were a relative of the home occupants or friend would not have been my business, not unless there was a firearm discharge.
because you cant check the chamber while aiming at the ground like a normal person? ok, so he went outside to his front (not back yard) to clear his weapon because he's afraid a round is going to hit his stash of firing pins. sure, its stupid, but whatever.
how is that any more of a concern than someone thinking the gun was unloaded and having a negligent discharge in the street? honestly, i think the chances that a round is going to strike the ground at the perfect angle are a lot lower than some dipshit either not knowing his gun was loaded or knowing it was, and having a negligent discharge.
he may not be breaking any laws, but this has nothing to do with hoplophobia and everything to do with the neighbor doing something he shouldnt be doing (legal or not), in the absence of a threat.
at bet, this is a case of very poor handling, which while not breaking the law, is cause for concern. and at worst, as the OP has stated, this may be breaking the law as it sounds like it wasnt on his property anyways.
-
I'd guess it was most likely airsoft. Calling the police to check it out would be the right thing to do, might be some criminal they're looking for or it could be nothing. If you know who the person is and know they are a good guy, I'd just go up to him and tell them they shouldn't be doing that.
-
If you know who the person is and know they are a good guy, I'd just go up to him and tell them they shouldn't be doing that.
Particularly if they have a back yard/lanai. Better privacy.
Too many panicky liberals passing by out front. Do not want wet panties and skid marks..........
-
i think that's the right thing. even if open carry were legal, someone actually drawing and doing anything to manipulate his weapon deserves investigation.
either he's in the wrong (drawing for no good reason, or malicious reasons), or something caused him to draw which needs to be looked into.
I agree, better safe than sorry,
-
Racked, racked, racked = clearing a chamber.
I see the NRA isn't providing appropriate training with regard to the handling of ammunition, too much emphasis on the hardware and not enough on the most dangerous element involved, the ammunition itself.
In one breath, ejecting live rounds isn't dangerous unless you've a box of firing pins laying around and in the next breath an empty firearm is dangerous when aimed at an empty roadway. That's a special sort of double standard nonsense, one for the books and I'll be sure to get some elements of that into the test questions ammunition handling section.
36. When in your living room, when is it safe to eject live rounds from your firearm?
A) When no-one else is watching.
B) When my box of firing pins is closed and more than 15' away around the corner in the hallway.
C) When the chamber ejection path is ...
Would anyone here care to guess what happens when live ammunition is incidentally discharged outside the chamber of a firearm?
-
Racked, racked, racked = clearing a chamber.
I see the NRA isn't providing appropriate training with regard to the handling of ammunition, too much emphasis on the hardware and not enough on the most dangerous element involved, the ammunition itself.
In one breath, ejecting live rounds isn't dangerous unless you've a box of firing pins laying around and in the next breath an empty firearm is dangerous when aimed at an empty roadway. That's a special sort of double standard nonsense, one for the books and I'll be sure to get some elements of that into the test questions ammunition handling section.
36. When in your living room, when is it safe to eject live rounds from your firearm?
A) When no-one else is watching.
B) When my box of firing pins is closed and more than 15' away around the corner in the hallway.
C) When the chamber ejection path is ...
Would anyone here care to guess what happens when live ammunition is incidentally discharged outside the chamber of a firearm?
Not much. Demonstrations show the projectile doesn't have enough force to penetrate most wall board right beside the ammo.
Good video on how difficult it is to get stored cartridges to ignite when being shot, dropped, burned, ....
*** WARNING *** New ammunition was wasted in the making of this video. *** WANING ***
https://youtu.be/3SlOXowwC4c
-
Not much. Demonstrations show the projectile doesn't have enough force to penetrate most wall board right beside the ammo.
LOL... That's a good one. It's all about the round isn't it? Actually it has nothing to do with the round. It has to do with the casing and the powder itself.
How would you feel about tossing a lit brass cased m80 into your living room? Or a brass encased firecracker? Sound appealing to you?
Oh wait. When it discharges next to your bottle of tequila then the fiesta begins yeah? Oh what fun.
You don't eject live ammunition from your firearm in your living room unless you've an adequate ammo ejection catch. Your video is only applicable to what firefighters can expect and has nothing to do with an ejected round that discharges next to an infant or other family member. The shrapnel from the casing can cause eye injuries etc. The discharged rounds can also cause fires and other mayhem. When talking about the safety of not aiming an unloaded firearm one should also be just as savvy when it comes to the proper handling of ammunition. Pretending it's harmless unless chambered and it's safe to eject live ammo from your firearm into an occupied space is an irresponsible position. If you don't have an adequate ammo ejection catch then take it outside to a clear area! It's that damned simple.
-
LOL... That's a good one. It's all about the round isn't it? Actually it has nothing to do with the round. It has to do with the casing and the powder itself.
How would you feel about tossing a lit brass cased m80 into your living room? Or a brass encased firecracker? Sound appealing to you?
Oh wait. When it discharges next to your bottle of tequila then the fiesta begins yeah? Oh what fun.
You don't eject live ammunition from your firearm in your living room unless you've an adequate ammo ejection catch. Your video is only applicable to what firefighters can expect and has nothing to do with an ejected round that discharges next to an infant or other family member. The shrapnel from the casing can cause eye injuries etc. The discharged rounds can also cause fires and other mayhem. When talking about the safety of not aiming an unloaded firearm one should also be just as savvy when it comes to the proper handling of ammunition. Pretending it's harmless unless chambered and it's safe to eject live ammo from your firearm into an occupied space is an irresponsible position. If you don't have an adequate ammo ejection catch then take it outside to a clear area! It's that damned simple.
you're reaching way hard. at this rate, we may as well not buy ammo loose packed. it might jostle around and set off.
this risk in no way supplants the risk of a negligent discharge while a round is IN the firearm. where the round is inherently more dangerous, being, you know, in proximity with the equipment that's DESIGNED to fire it. in a barrel where most of the energy is derived from in the first place.
-
" I hear what sounds like a gun being racked back repeatedly."
And this indicates that the firearm is being (A) Loaded (B)Cleared
"I go into another room to look and sure enough a man holding what appears to be a pistol, aimed toward our road, pulling the slide back repeatedly."
And this means (A) Someone's checking the action of the slide (B) Preparing to kill someone (C) Someone is pissed at the road and cant get themselves to shoot it.
" I am like "what the Fuçk?!?,"
Is that because you're not sure what it means when a firearm is racked repeatedly? Did the man make bang bang noises with his mouth too? Was he yelling obscenities and waving the gun around randomly and pointlessly?
" it looked as if it was a pistol, it could have been a BB gun but it definitely, I believed it was a firearm. The man then went inside his home."
Wow... it could have been a spring loaded plastic BB gun that one needs to rack in order to compress the spring and load the plastic bb to shoot out the plastic bb? Maybe it wasn't working correctly?
This is why very little exposure to public firearms handling promotes instant fear of the possible worst case scenario in peoples minds when a firearm is brandished in what is NOW considered abnormal situations.
If you've never watched the film "The High and Mighty" 1954 staring John Wayne, you should see it. In one scene a passenger on the plane pulls a gun on a fellow passenger and later the gun is returned to the passenger who pulled the gun and nothing happens from the incident. In 1954 having a gun on a plane wasn't an issue nor was brandishing it. The point is this, the presence of guns in todays society is met with great fear and that fear has been perpetuated by the removal of guns from public view. The fact you don't see guns on anyone but police officers or armored car personnel is the perfect way to condition people to be fearful of guns when in the hands of anyone but those of proper authority. This has been one of the gun grabbers biggest strategies, to remove guns from public familiarity and therefore it paves the way for the average public to become less aware of the realities of guns and more malleable and accepting of anti gun propaganda. Simply seeing a gun promotes fear in the average person. This was not the case in 1954. Today a guy racking his firearm and aiming at an empty street and then going back in his house gets a neighbor to call the police on him. No anger expressed or yelling or anything really crazy, just an act that wasn't in agreement with the callers opinion on how firearms should be handled is all it took.
-
you're reaching way hard. at this rate, we may as well not buy ammo loose packed. it might jostle around and set off.
this risk in no way supplants the risk of a negligent discharge while a round is IN the firearm. where the round is inherently more dangerous, being, you know, in proximity with the equipment that's DESIGNED to fire it. in a barrel where most of the energy is derived from in the first place.
And you're reaching to justify your position on harassing a person who was practicing their second amendment rights. You along with everyone else in here who agrees with calling the police on the guy who was racking his firearm are contributors to the demise of the second amendment. Whether you've the capacity to understand why that's the case or not is irrelevant, the fact remains that the second amendment is also being compromised by people like yourself setting hidden double standards not recognized by yourselves and perpetuating the very propaganda fear you pretend to stand against.
I'm done with this topic and the radicals who unwittingly perpetuate anti 2a propaganda.
-
Mr. Salty,
I don't totally disagree with your enthusiastic philosophy about open carry.
I do disagree with what you seem to consider to be normal behavior.
...
So please explain, at what point does normal behavior become alarming behavior to you?
...
Back in the 60's We used to shoot at soda cans from the front porch of my grandfather's store.
It was ok because you might see 1 car every hour. Or perhaps a cowboy on a horse.
Like it or not, times have changed.
-
maybe salty0317 was the guy monster796 saw in the street? Damn this thread has went to shit.
-
Mr. Salty,
I don't totally disagree with your enthusiastic philosophy about open carry.
I do disagree with what you seem to consider to be normal behavior.
...
So please explain, at what point does normal behavior become alarming behavior to you?
...
Back in the 60's We used to shoot at soda cans from the front porch of my grandfather's store.
It was ok because you might see 1 car every hour. Or perhaps a cowboy on a horse.
Like it or not, times have changed.
This goes directly to the OP. Why? As you say, back in the day, we used to walk through the neighborhood carrying our pellet rifles and 22's as we set off to go hunting jack rabbits, possums or whatever. Nobody gave us a second glance. Same thing went for when we played Army or Cowboys and Indians, we ran around pretend shooting at each other for half the day and the only concern was that we didn't get too dirty and we cleaned up after ourselves. The mere sight of firearms, real or not, didn't send people into spasmodic fits, SWAT teams didn't descend on the Army players and disarm them.
What has changed? Attitudes.
The real question posed by the OP is, what has caused this change? I would agree with him that, in part, it's due to people becoming overly sensitive to the mere sight of a firearm. I agree that this is entirely due to the efforts of the government and anti gunners. This PC agenda has been force fed to our children via public schools and TV for the last 50 years, it's no wonder that ignorance and fear fairly abounds.
It's up to us to change that perception.
As far as guy racking a gun in a common area? Obviously unsafe firearm handling. The sad part is that most of us know so little about our neighbors that we can't simply talk to them about an incident like this.
-
Racked, racked, racked = clearing a chamber.
I see the NRA isn't providing appropriate training with regard to the handling of ammunition, too much emphasis on the hardware and not enough on the most dangerous element involved, the ammunition itself.
In one breath, ejecting live rounds isn't dangerous unless you've a box of firing pins laying around and in the next breath an empty firearm is dangerous when aimed at an empty roadway. That's a special sort of double standard nonsense, one for the books and I'll be sure to get some elements of that into the test questions ammunition handling section.
36. When in your living room, when is it safe to eject live rounds from your firearm?
A) When no-one else is watching.
B) When my box of firing pins is closed and more than 15' away around the corner in the hallway.
C) When the chamber ejection path is ...
Would anyone here care to guess what happens when live ammunition is incidentally discharged outside the chamber of a firearm?
Playing Devil's advocate here, but rack rack rack doesn't always mean a cleared chamber. If the extractor is broken, or if the casing is bulged, or if the rim of the casing is ripped/torn/rolled it could still mean a chambered cartridge.
Unless you physically see the chamber clear yourself you always assume it's loaded.
-
And you're reaching to justify your position on harassing a person who was practicing their second amendment rights. You along with everyone else in here who agrees with calling the police on the guy who was racking his firearm are contributors to the demise of the second amendment. Whether you've the capacity to understand why that's the case or not is irrelevant, the fact remains that the second amendment is also being compromised by people like yourself setting hidden double standards not recognized by yourselves and perpetuating the very propaganda fear you pretend to stand against.
I'm done with this topic and the radicals who unwittingly perpetuate anti 2a propaganda.
Are gun rights being erroded in America, absolutely. Is pointing a gun loaded or not at homes and cars acceptable absolutely NOT, salty is saying it is perfectly fine to aim and handle a firearms at homes and cars. Point the gun in a damn safe direction. You condone pointing firearms at homes and cars is alarming. Open carry is great, I did it all the time in Virginia and police there thanked me and others for exercising our rights. If he had the gun in a safe direction that is great, I believe illegal as it is not his place to keep according to Hawaii but I wouldn't have cared. What does erode our rights, asides from liberals and tyranitical leaders, is folks like you salty that say "er derp gun at house is okay, point it at a car cool too" if I would have not said anything, that guy probably would have done it again, and blasted someone (talk about eroding rights, like some idiot blasting some one, even if no one does, the media would be all over it) . Because I believe he was aiming at homes and cars, he probably does not know "keep your finger off the trigger" it was relatively dark but I also believe his finger was on the trigger. I still can't believe you're condoning aiming at cars and homes and NOT in a SAFE DIRECTION.
-
This goes directly to the OP. Why? As you say, back in the day, we used to walk through the neighborhood carrying our pellet rifles and 22's as we set off to go hunting jack rabbits, possums or whatever. Nobody gave us a second glance. Same thing went for when we played Army or Cowboys and Indians, we ran around pretend shooting at each other for half the day and the only concern was that we didn't get too dirty and we cleaned up after ourselves. The mere sight of firearms, real or not, didn't send people into spasmodic fits, SWAT teams didn't descend on the Army players and disarm them.
What has changed? Attitudes.
The real question posed by the OP is, what has caused this change? I would agree with him that, in part, it's due to people becoming overly sensitive to the mere sight of a firearm. I agree that this is entirely due to the efforts of the government and anti gunners. This PC agenda has been force fed to our children via public schools and TV for the last 50 years, it's no wonder that ignorance and fear fairly abounds.
It's up to us to change that perception.
As far as guy racking a gun in a common area? Obviously unsafe firearm handling. The sad part is that most of us know so little about our neighbors that we can't simply talk to them about an incident like this.
...
I believe the original question by the op was whether or not he did the right thing by calling the police. The general consensus is yes.
If you are talking about changes in attitudes, well I think we all have a pretty good idea about that.
Urbanization accompanied by population increases and rampant drug abuse. All of which contribute to crime increases. Along with the increase in crime, came the demonization of guns. It's easy to blame an inanimate object for unsolvable problems.
How to change minds and attitudes? That's a tough one. If it were an easy task, I wouldn't be divorced today. LOL.
Speaking for myself, I try to change people's perceptions by starting with my own family...children, siblings, inlaws, nieces and nephews.
In fact, my niece is supposed to be taking a pistol safety class next month.
Beyond that, I help out my coworkers with advice and ammo. Furthermore, I voluntarily assist with safety classes.
If we all did that, it would go a long way toward changing public perceptions.
-
Playing Devil's advocate here, but rack rack rack doesn't always mean a cleared chamber. If the extractor is broken, or if the casing is bulged, or if the rim of the casing is ripped/torn/rolled it could still mean a chambered cartridge.
Unless you physically see the chamber clear yourself you always assume it's loaded.
...
Oh yeah rack rack rack does not equal clear chamber.
I had my extractor break a couple of years ago and that is exactly what happened.
I was at the range when it broke, but I did not feel it was necessary to go out to the road or parking lot to clear the chamber.LOL
-
...
Oh yeah rack rack rack does not equal clear chamber.
I had my extractor break a couple of years ago and that is exactly what happened.
I was at the range when it broke, but I did not feel it was necessary to go out to the road or parking lot to clear the chamber.LOL
I think if you pointed your gun at a passing car on the freeway it would have gotten unloaded. :D
-
I'm not going to argue whether or not the chamber was empty because no-one knows the answer to that question except the individual who was racking the slide. People don't typically rack the firearm many times over to load it. I'd have only assumed the guy was inspecting the firearm and maybe looking into the chamber could have been construed as aiming the firearm. I especially wouldn't have done anything after he went inside and nothing more happened with exception of 3 police cars pulling up in front of the guys place several minutes later.
Bottom line, this fear of firearms has been a growing issue and a giant step in the propaganda war began with DB Coopers High jacking back in 1971 where thereafter carryon firearms were banned on commercial airliners yet previous to that time they could be carried aboard with you. Many of us here were around when firearms could be carried aboard airliners. Who here remembers those days? Anyone? I would also assume most here would think such an act to be stupid and that's because you've been conditioned to think that way. Assume the worst and call the police is the new mantra.
It's a different world (therefore the second amendment has become archaic). Yes, I understand that conditioned perception. That said, I don't agree with it. It's only a matter of time and the second amendment will be repealed because of the current conditioning through intolerance.
-
Racked, racked, racked = clearing a chamber.
And why do you clear a chamber? Because you want to make sure there isn't a round in it. If you KNOW it's clear, there's no reason to clear it... So, this guy, who has a history of erratic behavior (as reported by the OP), takes what appears to be a firearm that HE DOESN'T KNOW IF IT HAS A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER OR NOT, and points it at a) occupied dwellings and 2) a well-trafficked street. I don't care if it's 1854, 1954, or 2054, or whether it was before or after D.B. Cooper jumped out of an airliner, THAT'S IRRESPONSIBLE AND UNSAFE BEHAVIOR. If I were they guy's neighbor, and I knew him to be a sane and reasonable individual, I probably would have gone over to chat with him about it. HOWEVER, if I knew the guy behaved erratically and that his wife stared at my pregnant wife to the point of making us uncomfortable... Yep, I'm calling the cops.
I'm all for desensitizing people to the presence of firearms, and I've got nothing against open carry if the open carrier has decided that's the best choice for them. Given the option, I would carry concealed. I really dislike open carry when the open carrier chooses the weapon or manner of carry to intentionally shock people or make them uncomfortable. THAT damages the cause of protecting our 2A rights. :shaka:
-
The way I look at it is if you truly felt that your safety was at risk by all means call the police. Only you can make that determination at that point in time. You may perceive a certain act when actually it might be something completely opposite. That's for the police determine. Now if this guy was just being an asshole that watched "john wick" too many times then so be it. Last I checked it was not against the law to be an asshole.
With that said, let me paint a picture that I'm sure many of us on this forum has experienced. Say this same asshole was at the range. Racking his slide like no ones business. Sweeping everyone down the line with a loaded pistol. How do you react? Supposedly said asshole is in a similar situation ie handling a firearm at a legal location acting a fool. Do you call the police at that point too? Let's kick it a notch... Your shooting with your pregnant wife on the next lane. What now?
The point I'm trying to make is many gun owners are untrained, unaware, and just plain stupid but that doesn't make them criminals with malice intent. We need to be careful in our determinations of others otherwise we turn in to one of those protectionist who want to take away 2a rights. In the end I say you did the right thing because no one was hurt. Anytime there is no shooting is always a win. But I would say you are skating a fine line.
-
...
I believe the original question by the op was whether or not he did the right thing by calling the police. The general consensus is yes.
If you are talking about changes in attitudes, well I think we all have a pretty good idea about that.
Urbanization accompanied by population increases and rampant drug abuse. All of which contribute to crime increases. Along with the increase in crime, came the demonization of guns. It's easy to blame an inanimate object for unsolvable problems.
How to change minds and attitudes? That's a tough one. If it were an easy task, I wouldn't be divorced today. LOL.
Speaking for myself, I try to change people's perceptions by starting with my own family...children, siblings, inlaws, nieces and nephews.
In fact, my niece is supposed to be taking a pistol safety class next month.
Beyond that, I help out my coworkers with advice and ammo. Furthermore, I voluntarily assist with safety classes.
If we all did that, it would go a long way toward changing public perceptions.
Yeah, I think I was combining Salty's post about open carry with this one. Sorry it was early. :sleeping:
Calling HPD? Judgment call IMO. I probably wouldn't have until I'd talked to the guy, but I wasn't there, and don't live next to him. If in doubt, better safe than sorry.
-
One thing to remember.... when the police get involved in your complaint, it becomes an official record. If the guy actually gets arrested, you've just gone from "someone should talk to him about gun safety" to:
he's gotta pay a lawyer (assuming he's got resources),
maybe pay to bond out,
spend work days preparing for and going to hearings,
perhaps have his firearm collection confiscated,
if his job is notified, and if he works at a place requiring a clean arrest background, he could lose his clearance or other credentials which means his job is at risk,
and on and on ...
Look at what happened to Zimmerman. He was cleared by the local cops, but Obama and Holder pressed for a trial. Even though he was acquitted in a trial that never should have happened, his life is basically ruined.
My point here is, calling the Cops should never be a routine decision. Not only are you setting the wheels in motion that may have unintended results, you are taking the police away from other, potentially more urgent, calls.
I take police reports very, very seriously, because the complainant is basically reporting they believe there is a law being broken. The Cops will investigate, and in this case, they decided to not do much. What if that had not been the case?
Maybe since you don't know your neighbors at all, other than observing their bad behaviors, you have no concerns about turning them over to the system. I ask you, what if this had been a close friend you observed. Would you have called the police?
-
Not going to address the arguments because at the end of the day we each have our own experiences to draw on so I wouldn't presume to tell you whether or not you were right or wrong. You did what you deemed prudent and I can respect that.
Personally I wouldn't have called the cops. I would have asked the guy if he was having trouble with his firearm, told him I was also a gun guy and after starting a dialogue with him would bring up firearm safety and suggested he not point his gun at the road or common areas.
I think one of the problems our society faces today is a lack of dialogue. When I was a kid I remembered people talking to each other to resolve issues or concerns, now everything is sorted out through cops and courts.
-
Would anyone here care to guess what happens when live ammunition is incidentally discharged outside the chamber of a firearm?
No need to guess. The matter has been looked into repeatedly. Without the chamber and barrel to contain and channel the projectile, the detonating cartridge will be propelled at a significantly reduced velocity. Said reduced velocity is very unlikely to inflict significant injuries, even to those standing close to the detonating cartridges.
The video of the ammunition in the fire, contrary to your beliefs, is very instructional in this matter. Whether being set off by high heat, or the infinitesimally small chance of a primer strike on an ejected cartridge, the end result is the same: detonation of an unconstrained cartridge. Furthermore, the "brass" rarely fails, and when it does, it splits rather than create "shrapnel." If, as you suggest the brass would suffer a significant structural failure and create a ton of fragments shot through the air, why was all the brass in the fire demonstration intact? Your analogy of a "brass cased" firework simulating an unconstrained detonation is fatally flawed. First, gunpowder is not an explosive. It burns rapidly to produce the energy necessary to propel the bullet down the barrel of a gun, but it does not explode. A firecracker is filled with flash powder and does indeed explode.
You can argue the merits of calling the police or not in the situation referenced in this post, but your attempts to somehow make ejecting a live cartridge in your home dangerous because it might detonate on some piece of home furnishings, shows a lack of knowledge on how ammunition behaves both inside and outside a firearm. If there were any concerns that regular home furnishing might cause a detonation of a cartridge IDPA would not set elaborate stages to mimic a home interior during their matches.
-
The video of the ammunition in the fire, contrary to your beliefs, is very instructional in this matter.
[/quote
Hickok45
https://youtu.be/8ad9e0mO8Q4
-
Not going to address the arguments because at the end of the day we each have our own experiences to draw on so I wouldn't presume to tell you whether or not you were right or wrong. You did what you deemed prudent and I can respect that.
Personally I wouldn't have called the cops. I would have asked the guy if he was having trouble with his firearm, told him I was also a gun guy and after starting a dialogue with him would bring up firearm safety and suggested he not point his gun at the road or common areas.
I think one of the problems our society faces today is a lack of dialogue. When I was a kid I remembered people talking to each other to resolve issues or concerns, now everything is sorted out through cops and courts.
...
Oh brother, I dunno about approaching a weird guy with a gun. It only takes a fraction of a second to get from unloaded to loaded.
-
...
Oh brother, I dunno about approaching a weird guy with a gun. It only takes a fraction of a second to get from unloaded to loaded.
You know me oldfart, I'll talk to anyone lol. So friendly.... At the very least I can bring up the finer points of cooking steak lol.
-
...
Oh brother, I dunno about approaching a weird guy with a gun. It only takes a fraction of a second to get from unloaded to loaded.
Since the characterization of "weird" is the opinion of the OP, that doesn't necessarily make it a fact. I'm not saying he's purposely making things up, but people do make mistakes.
I'm sure there are plenty of people we all know who on first impression we thought were weird until we got to know them. For example, some people were raised where yelling is just how people are. Nothing angry or aggressive is intended.
All you have to do is pay attention to the news when a spree or serial killer is caught. It's always the quiet ones you have to worry about!!
-
You know me oldfart, I'll talk to anyone lol. So friendly.... At the very least I can bring up the finer points of cooking steak lol.
...
Yeah, you would.
Maybe I would talk to him too...at a distance. To find out what he was trying to do....maybe... depends on what I actually saw.