2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: MuffinMan on January 04, 2016, 10:15:31 AM
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This notice was posted today. Great......... ??? :wtf:
It's the 'other problems' that worries me.
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Yup. Amazon Cloud services will be handling all our records for firearms now...
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just kidding.
Wouldn't that be awesome.
Online permitting
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Yup. Amazon Cloud services will be handling all our records for firearms now...
.
.
.
.
just kidding.
Wouldn't that be awesome.
Online permitting
I am sure it would be better than anything the city or state could come up with..... :geekdanc:
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Maybe the Hawaii Health Connector people are designing a new record keeping system for them.
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maybe now they'll try filing the records away in a place where they can find it
instead of losing them
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Yup. Amazon Cloud services will be handling all our records for firearms now...
.
.
.
.
just kidding.
Wouldn't that be awesome.
Online permitting
The way the C&C runs they would screw it up and make our personal information available for any tom, dick, and harry.
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yeah
spend more of tax payer money.
I hope the City and State goes bankrupt like Cali.
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I went this morning and the line wasn't moving AT ALL. Not one person registering or applying got processed in the 45 min I stood in line. Cop said they had a new paperless system starting today and were having glitches. I said F*ck it and walked out. I'll wait for them to get their shit together and try again in a couple weeks. :wacko:
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I went this morning and the line wasn't moving AT ALL. Not one person registering or applying got processed in the 45 min I stood in line. Cop said they had a new paperless system starting today and were having glitches. I said F*ck it and walked out. I'll wait for them to get their shit together and try again in a couple weeks. :wacko:
If I remember, there are supposed to be comment forms at the table by the entrance.
We should all be filling those out, especially now that there are system changes impacting customer service negatively.
If you don't complain in writing , they will report "no formal customer complaints received during the transition."
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I went this morning and the line wasn't moving AT ALL. Not one person registering or applying got processed in the 45 min I stood in line. Cop said they had a new paperless system starting today and were having glitches. I said F*ck it and walked out. I'll wait for them to get their shit together and try again in a couple weeks. :wacko:
A friend went today (first timer), saw the line and said "fck that noise", then left.
Most people don't have time for this kind of BS
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If anyone (on this forum) is in line please recruit for HRA & HDF while waiting. I hear the line is out past the main entrance. Just think if all those people signed up to be members. :shaka: :thumbsup:
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I have a stoopid question. Is HPD keeping sales records as well as registration records? They do insist we tell them from where or whom we purchased the firearm from. If they put this sort of information (sales records) into a database is this not illegal? Last I remember it is illegal for the Federal Government to do it. Is my memory failing me? Or is it okay for states/counties/cities to keep this sort of record but not the Feds?
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Is HPD keeping sales records as well as registration records? They do insist we tell them from where or whom we purchased the firearm from. If they put this sort of information (sales records) into a database is this not illegal? Last I remember it is illegal for the Federal Government to do it. Is my memory failing me?
All of my permits have the name of whom I purchased them from. (I only have Hawaii permits)
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I have a stoopid question. Is HPD keeping sales records as well as registration records? They do insist we tell them from where or whom we purchased the firearm from. If they put this sort of information (sales records) into a database is this not illegal? Last I remember it is illegal for the Federal Government to do it. Is my memory failing me? Or is it okay for states/counties/cities to keep this sort of record but not the Feds?
the dealers have to register the firearms to themselves so HPD asks who/where you got your firearm from so they know where to go to get the record on file from and transfer the firearm along to you
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All of my permits have the name of whom I purchased them from. (I only have Hawaii permits)
the dealers have to register the firearms to themselves so HPD asks who/where you got your firearm from so they know where to go to get the record on file from and transfer the firearm along to you
I thank you for your answers. But is not what I was asking. I found what I was thinking about:
The Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986 basically says:
"No such rule or regulation prescribed [by the Attorney General] after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation."
So basically, the way I read this is that HPD cannot put together a database of sales records (or registration records either). Am I wrong about this? Am I interpreting this incorrectly?
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I thank you for your answers. But is not what I was asking. I found what I was thinking about:
The Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986 basically says:
"No such rule or regulation prescribed [by the Attorney General] after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation."
So basically, the way I read this is that HPD cannot put together a database of sales records (or registration records either). Am I wrong about this? Am I interpreting this incorrectly?
We would have to take them to court, and we all know how that goes.
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HPD put the notice up on their website also.
http://www.honolulupd.org/information/index.php?page=gunmain
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They must be transitioning to that new Federal Background Check System (Affordable Gun Care Act) that Obama enacted secretly through executive action while playing the back 9 at the Klipper coarse in KBay last week. ;)
Did I just add to the panic.
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I thank you for your answers. But is not what I was asking. I found what I was thinking about:
The Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986 basically says:
"No such rule or regulation prescribed [by the Attorney General] after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation."
So basically, the way I read this is that HPD cannot put together a database of sales records (or registration records either). Am I wrong about this? Am I interpreting this incorrectly?
I think FOPA only prevents the federal government from enacting a rule or regulation that would require maintaining set of records regarding gun ownership. If the feds made a rule requiring that HPD maintain records, that would be a problem. Since this is a city/county policy, I don't think it's affected by FOPA. As always, however, I could be wrong...
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Not mandatory , but may be keep.
Most other country require a mandatory system nation wide by law.
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https://www.cga.ct.gov/2011/rpt/2011-R-0074.htm
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I think FOPA only prevents the federal government from enacting a rule or regulation that would require maintaining set of records regarding gun ownership. If the feds made a rule requiring that HPD maintain records, that would be a problem. Since this is a city/county policy, I don't think it's affected by FOPA. As always, however, I could be wrong...
I could be wrong as well but it does state: "...United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof..." Which leads me to believe this is inclusive of the City/County of Honolulu. Again, I could be wrong and probably am. I could be reading it the way I want to. It wouldn't be the first time and it probably won't be the last. :crazy:
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I thank you for your answers. But is not what I was asking. I found what I was thinking about:
The Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986 basically says:
"No such rule or regulation prescribed [by the Attorney General] after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation."
So basically, the way I read this is that HPD cannot put together a database of sales records (or registration records either). Am I wrong about this? Am I interpreting this incorrectly?
I've tried to bring this specific section up before as well. The hard part is getting the federal government to follow through on it.
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I could be wrong as well but it does state: "...United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof..." Which leads me to believe this is inclusive of the City/County of Honolulu. Again, I could be wrong and probably am. I could be reading it the way I want to. It wouldn't be the first time and it probably won't be the last. :crazy:
It's the first part that restricts it to rules enacted by the federal government...
No such rule or regulation prescribed [by the Attorney General]... may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred...
The term “Attorney General” means the Attorney General of the United States.
It only restricts the Attorney General of the United States from prescribing rules that require maintaining such a set of records... to include federally-required records maintained at the state or local level. As I read this, states and localities are free to collect and maintain records.
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I just realized what it is about this that I couldn't remember. The government cannot create a records system like a database from FFL Dealer records. That was the part I could not remember was from dealer records. I knew something wasn't quite right but I could not remember exactly what it was.
When you get to be my age and try to remember something that happened almost 30 years ago you sometimes only remember bits and pieces of things. :rofl:
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There are provlems with the existing hpd records system so a new system is in order. Hopefully they can get it running smoothly soon.
I was under the impression records are kept about what firearms go through dealers but no idea on what details there are.
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Interesting that they put the concealed firearms permit application on their website.
http://www.honolulupd.org/downloads/LTC2015Application.pdf
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Maybe that explains all the CCW application denials .... Computer Glitch!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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"better serve".....so they finally decided to move away from carbon copies and registration forms typed out on a typewriter? I'll believe the "better serve" part when they drop the permit renewal waiting period for people who already have registered firearms (I know, I know, thinking baby steps here) and allow me to apply for renewal online... :sleeping:
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"better serve".....so they finally decided to move away from carbon copies and registration forms typed out on a typewriter? I'll believe the "better serve" part when they drop the permit renewal waiting period for people who already have registered firearms (I know, I know, thinking baby steps here) and allow me to apply for renewal online... :sleeping:
Add to that list, no permit to acquire a handgun for people who already own a handgun.
They think someone is going to not use the gun they already own for bad things?
If they want to force us to have periodic background and mental health checks, using the transfer process only affects the frequent buyers. Avoiding purchases would also avoid the periodic re-checks.
I think states which issue firearm ID cards have a good idea. You go through the hoops, get your card, and for 3-5 years, you use that to buy guns. No additional paperwork required. All mental health checks were done for the card. When the card expires, require it be renewed in order to continue owning your guns. A renewable "permit" would be much more effective than the hit-or-miss background re-check system we have now.
I agree we shouldn't have to jump through hoops to retain our property. I'm just saying, if the problem is screening for people who no longer should own guns, a recurring requirement to have your ID card renewed would work better than what we have here.
I think it would be a good compromise: no more standing in line twice for every handgun permit. Similar to a security clearance, you'd go through a "re-investigation" every few years to keep your status current.
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Add to that list, no permit to acquire a handgun for people who already own a handgun.
They think someone is going to not use the gun they already own for bad things?
If they want to force us to have periodic background and mental health checks, using the transfer process only affects the frequent buyers. Avoiding purchases would also avoid the periodic re-checks.
I think states which issue firearm ID cards have a good idea. You go through the hoops, get your card, and for 3-5 years, you use that to buy guns. No additional paperwork required. All mental health checks were done for the card. When the card expires, require it be renewed in order to continue owning your guns. A renewable "permit" would be much more effective than the hit-or-miss background re-check system we have now.
I agree we shouldn't have to jump through hoops to retain our property. I'm just saying, if the problem is screening for people who no longer should own guns, a recurring requirement to have your ID card renewed would work better than what we have here.
I think it would be a good compromise: no more standing in line twice for every handgun permit. Similar to a security clearance, you'd go through a "re-investigation" every few years to keep your status current.
While I'm not a fan of needing a permit to exercise a right (or to even possess in accordance with said right), I understand the compromise. One thing I would add to the wishlist - registration (if needed at all) should be done at point-of-sale by the LGS, like they do in CA. Going to HPD to register is a huge waste of time and taxpayer's money.
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While I'm not a fan of needing a permit to exercise a right (or to even possess in accordance with said right), I understand the compromise. One thing I would add to the wishlist - registration (if needed at all) should be done at point-of-sale by the LGS, like they do in CA. Going to HPD to register is a huge waste of time and taxpayer's money.
Good point. Guns I bought in other states required I only deal with the gun store. They did the local background check through the local PD, who in turn ran the NICS check. After any wait (3 days was the most before coming here), I went back to the store and picked up the gun. One trip to buy, and one trip to bring it home.
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Interesting that they put the concealed firearms permit application on their website.
http://www.honolulupd.org/downloads/LTC2015Application.pdf
Oh sweet. I'll add that link to Hawaii CCW Initiative. Thanks for looking out!
Does anyone know, since they are now taking your mugshot, why do you still need to furnish two passport photos?
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While I'm not a fan of needing a permit to exercise a right (or to even possess in accordance with said right), I understand the compromise. One thing I would add to the wishlist - registration (if needed at all) should be done at point-of-sale by the LGS, like they do in CA. Going to HPD to register is a huge waste of time and taxpayer's money.
I envision a system where somebody gets a permit or a card that allows them to purchase firearms. They then show the card to gun stores or to private parties that they are going to buy guns from. The person viewing the card can then call the police station to verify that the license number is currently valid. This ensures that a responsible gun owner does not sell a gun to somebody who should not be having one or who has their right to own firearms taken away for good reason. this card could be renewed every year or two years. I think we could do away with registration with this sort of system. Perhaps to be able to trace a gun if we really needed it we could make sellers record the name or license number of the person they sold the gun to. I think we need a way for private sellers to ensure that they are selling guns to safe people.
The only big problem with not registering it is hard to know how many guns that person has. I understand the worries of gun registration but there are also drawbacks of not having registered guns.
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we should do the same thing with EBT cards so that those who are taking from us are only spending it on food and not drugs and sh!t.
the 2A is a right
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I envision a system where somebody gets a permit or a card that allows them to purchase firearms. They then show the card to gun stores or to private parties that they are going to buy guns from. The person viewing the card can then call the police station to verify that the license number is currently valid. This ensures that a responsible gun owner does not sell a gun to somebody who should not be having one or who has their right to own firearms taken away for good reason. this card could be renewed every year or two years. I think we could do away with registration with this sort of system. Perhaps to be able to trace a gun if we really needed it we could make sellers record the name or license number of the person they sold the gun to. I think we need a way for private sellers to ensure that they are selling guns to safe people.
The only big problem with not registering it is hard to know how many guns that person has. I understand the worries of gun registration but there are also drawbacks of not having registered guns.
So, you think the government knowing how many guns you have is important? For what reason?
Who do you think the government will have that information on? Everyone, or just those who register guns?
The man in South Carolina with 7,000 to 10,000 guns -- putting aside they may have been stolen -- was his being in possession of those guns causing anyone else problems?
One gun in the hands of an evil man is a problem. Hundreds or even thousands in the hands of someone with no ill will toward anyone is only a problem for people who fear guns (and anyone who tries to rob him!!).
I'm very curious what "drawbacks" exist with a state not requiring firearm registration.
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Such as during 86' when manufactures and individual were registering pieces of metal as machine guns. They pretty much just stamped 1000's of SN on anything to get it register.
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What about the "By law, a gun dealer can complete a sale to a customer if the background check comes back clean or has taken more than three days to complete" I read in the Obama Executive Order" article ? ::)
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...One gun in the hands of an evil man is a problem....
And I don't expect that one man is going to bring his gun in for registration before turning it on unarmed people then pulling the trigger. So why should we register our guns? If he doesn't then we shouldn't. Remember, the only people who should register their guns are the ones that are going to use them illegally. That way the government can confiscate them after they use them to kill people. Because the government should not care one iota who is a law abiding citizen and if they own a gun or not. Actually, it is none of their damn business.
Yeah, I want to hear about why it is a good reason to register guns, too.
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And I don't expect that one man is going to bring his gun in for registration before turning it on unarmed people then pulling the trigger. So why should we register our guns? If he doesn't then we shouldn't. Remember, the only people who should register their guns are the ones that are going to use them illegally. That way the government can confiscate them after they use them to kill people. Because the government should not care one iota who is a law abiding citizen and if they own a gun or not. Actually, it is none of their damn business.
Yeah, I want to hear about why it is a good reason to register guns, too.
because if we don't register them then they become ghost guns..able to...shoot 30 magazine clips in HALF A SECOND!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJmFEv6BHM0
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What about the "By law, a gun dealer can complete a sale to a customer if the background check comes back clean or has taken more than three days to complete" I read in the Obama Executive Order" article ? ::)
The guy who killed nine in a S. Carolina church should have never passed the NICS check. He had a record that barred him from owning a handgun, but the databases had some inconsistencies. It took longer than 3 days to get around to resolving that problem, so his application was automatically approved.
Nine died because the system is broken, not to mention the aftermath with the whole Confederate Flag BS (not that the flag controversy compares to nine lost souls, but it was all part of the same systemic failure).
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So, you think the government knowing how many guns you have is important? For what reason?
Who do you think the government will have that information on? Everyone, or just those who register guns?
The man in South Carolina with 7,000 to 10,000 guns -- putting aside they may have been stolen -- was his being in possession of those guns causing anyone else problems?
One gun in the hands of an evil man is a problem. Hundreds or even thousands in the hands of someone with no ill will toward anyone is only a problem for people who fear guns (and anyone who tries to rob him!!).
I'm very curious what "drawbacks" exist with a state not requiring firearm registration.
Is not that hard to concieve. Lets say you were diagnosed with a brain tumor which made you susceptible to outbreaks of violence. The doctor petitions the judge to prevent you from owning firearms and the judge revokes your right. With registration the legal system knows you have guns and how many. With no registration they have no knowledge of whether you have guns that need taking away. Prior to the mental illnes you had no plans to do evil.so you cant use the argument that bad guys wont follow the law anyway.
Or lets say you commit a violent felony. And can no longer have guns. With registration the state can enwure you follow the law but checking that you turned them back in or sold them.
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Is not that hard to concieve. Lets say you were diagnosed with a brain tumor which made you susceptible to outbreaks of violence. The doctor petitions the judge to prevent you from owning firearms and the judge revokes your right. With registration the legal system knows you have guns and how many. With no registration they have no knowledge of whether you have guns that need taking away. Prior to the mental illnes you had no plans to do evil.so you cant use the argument that bad guys wont follow the law anyway.
Or lets say you commit a violent felony. And can no longer have guns. With registration the state can enwure you follow the law but checking that you turned them back in or sold them.
Using your same scenario, lets say your doctor is a left wing, anti-gun obama worshiper that doesn't have your best interest in mind. He petitions a judge to prevent you from owning firearms because he is doing everything within the limits of his power to 'reduce gun violence', and the judge revokes your right based on this false report.
Because of the current state legal system, they know exactly how many guns you have, and will confiscate them all. With no registration, they wouldn't have any knowledge of potential firearms that you may need in a future situation to protect yourself or your loved ones.
Prior to being screwed over by your doctor, you had and still have no intention to do evil.
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Prior to being screwed over by your doctor, you had and still have no intention to do evil.
once i was screwed over by my doctor, i would have lots of intention to do evil
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once i was screwed over by my doctor, i would have lots of intention to do evil
(http://www.oralanswers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/scary_dentist_real_drill-700x450.jpg)
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(http://www.oralanswers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/scary_dentist_real_drill-700x450.jpg)
plaque
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Using your same scenario, lets say your doctor is a left wing, anti-gun obama worshiper that doesn't have your best interest in mind. He petitions a judge to prevent you from owning firearms because he is doing everything within the limits of his power to 'reduce gun violence', and the judge revokes your right based on this false report.
Because of the current state legal system, they know exactly how many guns you have, and will confiscate them all. With no registration, they wouldn't have any knowledge of potential firearms that you may need in a future situation to protect yourself or your loved ones.
Prior to being screwed over by your doctor, you had and still have no intention to do evil.
That scenario could be possible or that doctor in attempts to disqualify you from ownership may prescribe certain drugs that could disqualify you in the eyes of feds or local PD. Even if that maybe tin foil thinking, we should all be wary and check the type of medicines prescribed to us anyway as you are responsible for your health and which is why there's google search.
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Is not that hard to concieve. Lets say you were diagnosed with a brain tumor which made you susceptible to outbreaks of violence. The doctor petitions the judge to prevent you from owning firearms and the judge revokes your right. With registration the legal system knows you have guns and how many. With no registration they have no knowledge of whether you have guns that need taking away. Prior to the mental illnes you had no plans to do evil.so you cant use the argument that bad guys wont follow the law anyway.
Or lets say you commit a violent felony. And can no longer have guns. With registration the state can enwure you follow the law but checking that you turned them back in or sold them.
Being "susceptible to outbreaks of violence" does not equal a history of violent behavior.
Rather than remove firearms from the patient's home and ban him from exercising his rights, why not just confine him? If he's that violent, then the absence of a gun will not make him less violent. He could grab a knife, a tire iron, a lead pipe or a baseball bat and murder someone in one of his "violent oubreaks."
What I'm getting at it, if the man is dangerous, petitioning to remove the man's guns would be ineffective. To look at it from the other angle, if he's not dangerous enough to be locked away for fear of hurting himself or others, then he's not violent enough to take away his right of self defense.
Maybe instead of a judge getting involved, the doctor might recommend having a relative take custody of the firearms. One thing people don't seem to understand or care about is, once the system labels you, it can screw you up in all kinds of ways down the road. Look at the crap going on with HPD and Kaiser/Straub. Seeking counseling for diabetes can get you flagged to deny you a gun.
So, instead of looking for the justice system to get involved in every single situation, how about we exercise common sense and treat people with the respect they deserve. We are so terrified of lawyers now, nobody wants to do what's right, only what's legal.
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I went this morning and the line wasn't moving AT ALL. Not one person registering or applying got processed in the 45 min I stood in line. Cop said they had a new paperless system starting today and were having glitches. I said F*ck it and walked out. I'll wait for them to get their shit together and try again in a couple weeks. :wacko:
I experienced similar on Monday 1/4. Trying again this morning hoping for a different result
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News report says hpd is trying to make things go faster by letting you go to honolulupd.org to download all the forms and filling them out before going to the pd.
Is this something really different?
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News report says hpd is trying to make things go faster by letting you go to honolulupd.org to download all the forms and filling them out before going to the pd.
Is this something really different?
I've been told before that I need to fill out their forms that they give to you at the PD. The ones I had printed and filled out they didn't accept. Maybe they changed that?
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I've been told before that I need to fill out their forms that they give to you at the PD. The ones I had printed and filled out they didn't accept. Maybe they changed that?
...
Yeah maybe.
It would save a little time. I had to rewrite everything too.
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I've been told before that I need to fill out their forms that they give to you at the PD. The ones I had printed and filled out they didn't accept. Maybe they changed that?
Same for me. Filled out the online forms, but the online versions don't look exactly like the forms they use at the firearms section. Made me redo everything.
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Same for me. Filled out the online forms, but the online versions don't look exactly like the forms they use at the firearms section. Made me redo everything.
Weird ??? I have been using the online forms for two years. The forms not available online, I asked them for extra copies at the window. The only form I fill out at HPD (last time was a week ago) is the "Application for Permit to Acquire Firearms". I hope I didn't just jinx myself. Try asking for a set of extra forms at the window and make copies of those. They had all the forms by the sink a few weeks ago but I didn't see them there last week.
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Being "susceptible to outbreaks of violence" does not equal a history of violent behavior.
Rather than remove firearms from the patient's home and ban him from exercising his rights, why not just confine him? If he's that violent, then the absence of a gun will not make him less violent. He could grab a knife, a tire iron, a lead pipe or a baseball bat and murder someone in one of his "violent oubreaks."
What I'm getting at it, if the man is dangerous, petitioning to remove the man's guns would be ineffective. To look at it from the other angle, if he's not dangerous enough to be locked away for fear of hurting himself or others, then he's not violent enough to take away his right of self defense.
Maybe instead of a judge getting involved, the doctor might recommend having a relative take custody of the firearms. One thing people don't seem to understand or care about is, once the system labels you, it can screw you up in all kinds of ways down the road. Look at the crap going on with HPD and Kaiser/Straub. Seeking counseling for diabetes can get you flagged to deny you a gun.
So, instead of looking for the justice system to get involved in every single situation, how about we exercise common sense and treat people with the respect they deserve. We are so terrified of lawyers now, nobody wants to do what's right, only what's legal.
the problem with your solution is that it can still fail. Common sense isnt always so common until we have hindsight. Sure, the doctor can recomend a family member take the guns but we both know that wont always work. A family member might just fail to take actions.
There are times when a person genuinely needs their guns taken away but that imprisonment is not justified. Registration allows the government to better prevent that person from having a gun. Neither system is perfect and in a real discussion we mist admit both the benefits and drawbacks of a proposal.
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Using your same scenario, lets say your doctor is a left wing, anti-gun obama worshiper that doesn't have your best interest in mind. He petitions a judge to prevent you from owning firearms because he is doing everything within the limits of his power to 'reduce gun violence', and the judge revokes your right based on this false report.
Because of the current state legal system, they know exactly how many guns you have, and will confiscate them all. With no registration, they wouldn't have any knowledge of potential firearms that you may need in a future situation to protect yourself or your loved ones.
Prior to being screwed over by your doctor, you had and still have no intention to do evil.
There are still avenues there. You can appeal the decision, change doctors, make a complaint to the medical board for false reports. No system is perfect.
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There are still avenues there. You can appeal the decision, change doctors, make a complaint to the medical board for false reports. No system is perfect.
Oh? And how long does that process take?
I guess you haven't personally experienced or know someone who has had their firearms confiscated by HPD to know how long the process takes.
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the problem with your solution is that it can still fail. Common sense isnt always so common until we have hindsight. Sure, the doctor can recomend a family member take the guns but we both know that wont always work. A family member might just fail to take actions.
There are times when a person genuinely needs their guns taken away but that imprisonment is not justified. Registration allows the government to better prevent that person from having a gun. Neither system is perfect and in a real discussion we mist admit both the benefits and drawbacks of a proposal.
You have this unrealistic idea that solutions must "always work." The laws in place now do not always work. So arguing against an idea that offers less government interference than your "we need laws that doctors must report you to have your guns taken" solution is not valid.
No solution will be fail-proof. The logical answer, then, would be select the one that proves to be more effective while protecting individual rights.
If a person is having problems but decides to avoid counseling because he knows he'll lose his right to own guns, the law is effectively driving a wedge between doctors and patients in need of help. People needing help will opt out, and now he's even more likely to eventually become a problem for society, maybe even violently.
I doubt there are any statistics to prove taking guns away from all patients seeking behavioral services reduces incidents of violence. In fact, the last two decades have shown the opposite. Even when you try to keep guns away from them, a determined person will find a way.
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If a person is having problems but decides to avoid counseling because he knows he'll lose his right to own guns, the law is effectively driving a wedge between doctors and patients in need of help. People needing help will opt out, and now he's even more likely to eventually become a problem for society, maybe even violently.
This is a major reason why veterans who need help don't get it, because they are always being persecuted and being subjected to unnecessary punishments like having their firearms taken away because of the trauma of war.
I guess EEF supports the disarmament of veterans.
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This is a major reason why veterans who need help don't get it, because they are always being persecuted and being subjected to unnecessary punishments like having their firearms taken away because of the trauma of war.
I guess EEF supports the disarmament of veterans.
If you read my previous replies, the system I envisioned did not involve registration. I am merely pointing out that registration does have certain benefits.
The fear of being fired or having rights taken away can absolutely make someone hesitate to get treatment, I understand that personally. The question is, how do we design a system so we can take away firearms when we do absolutely need to (in cases of mental illness)?
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If you read my previous replies, the system I envisioned did not involve registration. I am merely pointing out that registration does have certain benefits.
The fear of being fired or having rights taken away can absolutely make someone hesitate to get treatment, I understand that personally. The question is, how do we design a system so we can take away firearms when we do absolutely need to (in cases of mental illness)?
I started to post a lengthy response, but then I realiized once again you are hijacking the original topic. Your comments have nothing to do with the new records management system.
You should start another thread to talk about mental health and the gun buying process if that's where you are trying to take this.
:stopjack:
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If you read my previous replies, the system I envisioned did not involve registration. I am merely pointing out that registration does have certain benefits.
The fear of being fired or having rights taken away can absolutely make someone hesitate to get treatment, I understand that personally. The question is, how do we design a system so we can take away firearms when we do absolutely need to (in cases of mental illness)?
Many veterans do have mental illness in the form of PTSD and depression, which is why 22 veterans commit suicide everyday because they feel they can't get help without bring persecuted.
So again, it's evident you support the disarmament of veterans.
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I started to post a lengthy response, but then I realiized once again you are hijacking the original topic. Your comments have nothing to do with the new records management system.
You should start another thread to talk about mental health and the gun buying process if that's where you are trying to take this.
:stopjack:
I was adding my 2 cents to nathans comment, but sure we can get back on topic.
Hopefully the system will work better for all involved
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So what's the latest on the new system?
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So what's the latest on the new system?
I heard that you sign the digital permit on a tablet that has a plastic overlay and that even if you press real hard the signature is not always picked up (kinda like the credit card readers that you sign; some work well others not so). The plastic overlay covers the clear button, so if you mess up the officer behind the window has to clear the display for you.
Hopefully they will get it worked out and make things better and faster rather then the other way around.